[kern417]

Originally Posted by sspade

@Lancelot

Please elaborate on the F80 control arm issue. Theres a lot of us planning that mod...

Probably similar to this? Though I'm not sure Lancelot has an x-drive. But it does seem to put components at the limits of their reach along with the added caster.

[Lancelot]

Yes indeed, steering rack only for RWD but also front driving axles for X-drive are extended too much as well.

What I think is important to understand is that many people thought they could swap parts between the F80 and the F30 like they used to with the E9x, but that's not true, the E9x M3 shared the same subframe as its siblings and therefore swapping parts sort of made sense.

On the F80 platform the subframes have been completely redesigned and are very different from the F30, sharing only the 4 main frame attachment points, and little else, which means the control arms were designed totally differently for a different subframe.

Which leads me to share my conclusion that for your own safety, don't do it and stick to F30 designed parts, OEM or aftermarket, this is your life you're dealing with and possibly that of your passengers/family - sorry to be such a killjoy on that matter

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Yes indeed, steering rack only for RWD but also front driving axles for X-drive are extended too much as well.

What I think is important to understand is that many people thought they could swap parts between the F80 and the F30 like they used to with the E9x, but that's not true, the E9x M3 shared the same subframe as its siblings and therefore swapping parts sort of made sense.

On the F80 platform the subframes have been completely redesigned and are very different from the F30, sharing only the 4 main frame attachment points, and little else, which means the control arms were designed totally differently for a different subframe.

Which leads me to share my conclusion that for your own safety, don't do it and stick to F30 designed parts, OEM or aftermarket, this is your life you're dealing with and possibly that of your passengers/family - sorry to be such a killjoy on that matter

Still alive after 10k! Livin' on the edge

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Still alive after 10k! Livin' on the edge

Cheers to that

[sspade]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Still alive after 10k! Livin' on the edge

Im still not convinced this is a bad idea, entirely. I believe it can be done right and the F80 and F30 body and frame and very similar.

Example, Im running an F80 connecting support and it fit perfectly.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by sspade

Im still not convinced this is a bad idea, entirely. I believe it can be done right and the F80 and F30 body and frame and very similar.

Example, Im running an F80 connecting support and it fit perfectly.

Yeah, perhaps there's something specific to my car that makes it more of an issue, go figure... I just know i'm not going back there, but if it works for you then that's great, just wanted to share that bad experience - which is a shame to be honest because turn in was improved so much by this mod... which is why i'm about to give a try to camber plates now, hoping to find a way to add camber that my chassis will tolerate.

[kern417]

I think the added caster was enough to make me shy away, even on my rwd car. The alignment shouldn't be so far off on a part that is supposed to be an improvement.

[sspade]

Have you guys looked into any aftermarket arms made for F30?

TRW makes a very nice set of upper/lower (4pc total) arms for F30. Probably made to OEM spec but at the same time... a guaranteed improvement in feel over tired factory arms.

Im considering those as well.

I like to do a lot of research and contemplation before deciding...

What is your guys opinion on when factory arms/bushings wear out and should be replaced? Under normal conditions.

Im going to throw some sway bar end links on soon (front). Also interested in aftermarket options... anyone have any?

Leaning towards this set from MEYLE.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by kern417

I think the added caster was enough to make me shy away, even on my rwd car. The alignment shouldn't be so far off on a part that is supposed to be an improvement.

Added caster is actually an improvement for our very light feeling EPS. Most people who do camber plates add as much of it as they can because it improves weight and high speed stability, this is why I was surprised with Lancelot's result. More caster is also a function of more camber. On a side note, if you also do F80 tension struts the caster increase goes from +1 to +.4~ (will also depend on ride height).

Just to clarify, comment wasn't to promote the mod. If it ain't for you, it ain't for you. Only know caster increase isn't something easily escaped when chasing camber increases.

[lefthander]

Originally Posted by sspade

Have you guys looked into any aftermarket arms made for F30?

TRW makes a very nice set of upper/lower (4pc total) arms for F30. Probably made to OEM spec but at the same time... a guaranteed improvement in feel over tired factory arms.

Any link for trw one?

[sspade]

Originally Posted by lefthander

Any link for trw one?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F352521859262

^this is for one side. Need two of these kits for complete job (L&R)

[lefthander]

Originally Posted by sspade

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F352521859262

Reckon they are the same as stock...

[sspade]

Originally Posted by lefthander

Reckon they are the same as stock...

Yep. This is my default if I dont go with F80 tension strut (LCA).

Regardless, Im sure a set of these on any car thats 50k miles or older would be a noticeable improvement in tightness of steering feel / stability.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Added caster is actually an improvement for our very light feeling EPS. Most people who do camber plates add as much of it as they can because it improves weight and high speed stability, this is why I was surprised with Lancelot's result. More caster is also a function of more camber. On a side note, if you also do F80 tension struts the caster increase goes from +1 to +.4~ (will also depend on ride height).

Just to clarify, comment wasn't to promote the mod. If it ain't for you, it ain't for you. Only know caster increase isn't something easily escaped when chasing camber increases.

True but you need a level of adjustment that is appropriate for your car so it can be corrected if nedded. The way it shoves the front wheel into the wheel well liner shows me that correction is needed.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by kern417

True but you need a level of adjustment that is appropriate for your car so it can be corrected if nedded. The way it shoves the front wheel into the wheel well liner shows me that correction is needed.

Absolutely appreciate that. In the spring I plan on replacing my tension struts with F80 ones since the OE bushings are getting tired and that'll pull the wheel backward. I'll be posting my results then!

[sspade]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Absolutely appreciate that. In the spring I plan on replacing my tension struts with F80 ones since the OE bushings are getting tired and that'll pull the wheel backward. I'll be posting my results then!

Wait a sec....

The LCA on a F80 is called a tension strut. And other arm is called a wishbone.

Or is it the other way around?!

Can you please confirm exactly which part numbers you have installed?

Its very easy to loose track of what we are talking about when everyone uses different/incorrect terminology.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by kern417

True but you need a level of adjustment that is appropriate for your car so it can be corrected if nedded. The way it shoves the front wheel into the wheel well liner shows me that correction is needed.

I'm not a fan of this especially since I use a square setup of 255/40/18.

I have the M Performance Suspension kit which increased the negative camber a bit to around -0.5. I'm hoping the wheel hub carriers and aftermarket bushings may be able to get it to -1.5. Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit really destroys the outer edges of your tires.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by sspade

Wait a sec....

The LCA on a F80 is called a tension strut. And other arm is called a wishbone.

Or is it the other way around?!

Can you please confirm exactly which part numbers you have installed?

Its very easy to loose track of what we are talking about when everyone uses different/incorrect terminology.

#10 is the part referred to as Lower Control Arm because it is the lowest mounting control arm to the hub, sometimes referred to as a track control arm. I have these installed.
Left - 31122284529
Right - 31122284530

#9 is the part referred to as a Tension Strut or Front/Forward Control Arm because it is responsible for suspension tension and is the forwardmost mounted.
Left - 31122284531
Right - 31122284532

The term wishbone can be used for either of these and often is. Traditionally, a wishbone is a triangle shaped control arm with three mounting points, like a horseshoe where a control arm has one single axis mounting point with a swivel joint on the other end. Lots of blurred lines with these terms, can't blame anybody for getting mixed up.

[Lancelot]

One year later...

The eccentric bushings don’t hold in place, getting a correct geometry was a nightmare as alignment went off ;
Bushings were making a cracking noise (needs lubricant regularly)
*and* they were softer than stock for control arms at least.

Superpro bushings are gone, replaced with
- stock control arms
- monoball on tension struts

Much better now; so i don’t advise going for these as you can guess.

Bottom line is i did not find a reliable way to increase negative camber - other than lowering the car.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

One year later...

The eccentric bushings don’t hold in place, getting a correct geometry was a nightmare as alignment went off ;
Bushings were making a cracking noise (needs lubricant regularly)
*and* they were softer than stock for control arms at least.

Superpro bushings are gone, replaced with
- stock control arms
- monoball on tension struts

Much better now; so i don’t advise going for these as you can guess.

Bottom line is i did not find a reliable way to increase negative camber - other than lowering the car.

I figured that much. There's a reason why OEM joints come with fittings to add grease as regular maintenance. Thanks for following up to your review.

[jbiswurm]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

One year later...

The eccentric bushings don’t hold in place, getting a correct geometry was a nightmare as alignment went off ;
Bushings were making a cracking noise (needs lubricant regularly)
*and* they were softer than stock for control arms at least.

Superpro bushings are gone, replaced with
- stock control arms
- monoball on tension struts

Much better now; so i don’t advise going for these as you can guess.

Bottom line is i did not find a reliable way to increase negative camber - other than lowering the car.

Lancelot. Thanks for the info. I recently did the F80 LCA mod and some of your posts have been really helpful.

I am looking at addressing the TSs next. can you explain why you did the monoballs vs the F80 TS? also, which monoballs kit did you use?

regarding your issues with stability with the LCAs, is it possible you just got a botched alignment? your syptoms sound alot like some toe out may have gotten dialed incombined with increased camber from the LCAs which would make things pretty darty. my experience with the LCAs has been very favorable.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by jbiswurm

Lancelot. Thanks for the info. I recently did the F80 LCA mod and some of your posts have been really helpful.

I am looking at addressing the TSs next. can you explain why you did the monoballs vs the F80 TS? also, which monoballs kit did you use?

regarding your issues with stability with the LCAs, is it possible you just got a botched alignment? your syptoms sound alot like some toe out may have gotten dialed incombined with increased camber from the LCAs which would make things pretty darty. my experience with the LCAs has been very favorable.

Hi!

F80 tension struts are actually the same length as f30, but the bushing is not as wide, so i'd say changing these is a waste of time.
The uniball i got is a millway http://www.millway.se/front-control-...w-f2x-f3x.html

I like this setup now, more reliable than superpro, crisp feeling too, although still lack negative camber :-/

You may well be right about the alignment being wrong originally with f80 Lower control arms, i also suspect the car's built in cross caster/cross camber could play a role (0.30 each, within tolerance but who knows...)

but now with the lower KW suspension with LCAs it leads to rubbing on the wheel pit (right side only) so i gave up...