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      07-15-2018, 12:02 PM   #1475
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Peteman187 View Post
Any Stage 1 OTS 93 octane, N55 guys in here?? How do you like it over stock or MPPK?

I am MPPK + MPE now, I have the cable, just deciding if I should wait until I am stage 2 or flash to stage 1 now.
Stage 1 is more aggressive tune then MPPK. I would flash stage 1 and run it until you decide to get stage 2. Then just flash stage 2.
So its definitely worth it in your opinion? Presently, I have a JB Stage 1, VRSF fmic, ER Charge pipe and a AFE air filter. I'm debating whether its worth the money to go BM3. I know the power delivery is better and such, but will I get that much more power to justify buying it.
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      07-15-2018, 12:44 PM   #1476
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Originally Posted by Busa1 View Post
So its definitely worth it in your opinion? Presently, I have a JB Stage 1, VRSF fmic, ER Charge pipe and a AFE air filter. I'm debating whether its worth the money to go BM3. I know the power delivery is better and such, but will I get that much more power to justify buying it.
I wouldnít buy it for the power for stage 1. I would buy it for the drivability and piece of mind.
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      07-16-2018, 10:41 AM   #1477
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Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
I don't know about you, but daily it runs great. If I need to speed up to merge on the ramp I can just downshift and I'm fine. Even from a dig it's great. My dragy recorded time was 3.9 seconds.

You really have to drive a PS2 car to see why it's so great. Either way I'd rather trade low end power for top end.
Iím not about taste, some guys are ok with turbos starting spool up at 5000rpm, just itís not that great in daily drive- I hate turbo lag. and ps2 has noticeable later spool up than ps1 or stock ewg turbo. thats why alpina b3/b3s uses biturbo setup on n55 rather than single bigger compressor/turbine wheels like ps2. though itís not even possible to use ps2 full potential on pump fuel as n55 hpfp is piece of crap, so probably it would be a good idea to have something in between ps1 and ps2. I dont like methanol/port injections, jb4ís etc, so probably it would be a good idea to move to s55 or at least to b58 platform..
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      07-16-2018, 12:17 PM   #1478
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Originally Posted by Busa1 View Post
So its definitely worth it in your opinion? Presently, I have a JB Stage 1, VRSF fmic, ER Charge pipe and a AFE air filter. I'm debating whether its worth the money to go BM3. I know the power delivery is better and such, but will I get that much more power to justify buying it.
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Originally Posted by HKD126 View Post
I wouldnít buy it for the power for stage 1. I would buy it for the drivability and piece of mind.
What he said ^^
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      07-16-2018, 12:27 PM   #1479
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I’m not about taste, some guys are ok with turbos starting spool up at 5000rpm, just it’s not that great in daily drive- I hate turbo lag. and ps2 has noticeable later spool up than ps1 or stock ewg turbo. thats why alpina b3/b3s uses biturbo setup on n55 rather than single bigger compressor/turbine wheels like ps2. though it’s not even possible to use ps2 full potential on pump fuel as n55 hpfp is piece of crap, so probably it would be a good idea to have something in between ps1 and ps2. I dont like methanol/port injections, jb4’s etc, so probably it would be a good idea to move to s55 or at least to b58 platform..
My PS2 spools like stock turbo (maybe a touch more lag WOT - but that is welcomed as it puts less stress on my clutch and drivetrain as opposed to hitting 500+ lbs trq instantly like my stocker did... also helps with wheelspin down low). Its great for daily driving. A lot has to do with tuning for it. A majority of your post is nonsense, I can't take it seriously. PS2 starting to spool at 5k rpm? Where are you getting your information from? Have you ever drove a PS2 N55? I think your feedback would change quite a bit if you did. Basically why PS2 appeals to so many people is it has stock like spool but after 5k rpm it wakes up. Im seeing 50-75+ whp more from 5-5.5k to redline over my PWG stocker. I'm on stock fuel system on 93 at this time. Roughly 17-17.5 psi seems to be the limit for the HPFP.
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      07-16-2018, 12:28 PM   #1480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
Iím not about taste, some guys are ok with turbos starting spool up at 5000rpm, just itís not that great in daily drive- I hate turbo lag. and ps2 has noticeable later spool up than ps1 or stock ewg turbo. thats why alpina b3/b3s uses biturbo setup on n55 rather than single bigger compressor/turbine wheels like ps2. though itís not even possible to use ps2 full potential on pump fuel as n55 hpfp is piece of crap, so probably it would be a good idea to have something in between ps1 and ps2. I dont like methanol/port injections, jb4ís etc, so probably it would be a good idea to move to s55 or at least to b58 platform..
5k to spool a ps2? There must be some mechanical issue like a boost leak
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      07-16-2018, 12:52 PM   #1481
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Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
5k to spool a ps2? There must be some mechanical issue like a boost leak
just an example, read my previous post ps2 spools up at 3000-3500 depending on gear.
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      07-16-2018, 01:01 PM   #1482
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Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
just an example, read my previous post ps2 spools up at 3000-3500 depending on gear.
Is that too late for you for spool though?
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      07-16-2018, 02:05 PM   #1483
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Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
Is that too late for you for spool though?
yes, sure, why do you think most modern cars manufacturers claim max torque 1750-5000-5500rpm flat? because old subaru wrx times are over. nobody wants any noticeable turbo lag, thatís why s55 uses 2 turbos and not one big. I understand that you can kickdown anytime but with more low end torque car feels way less heavy and 8AT gearbox lets you use this torque without switching few gears back and you overtake other cars in a blink while not reving a lot. itís not a rocket science to mount big turbo on engine, but to make it powerful at high rpms while still having great low end torque is not so easy as it looks
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      07-16-2018, 03:26 PM   #1484
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Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes, sure, why do you think most modern cars manufacturers claim max torque 1750-5000-5500rpm flat? because old subaru wrx times are over. nobody wants any noticeable turbo lag, thatís why s55 uses 2 turbos and not one big. I understand that you can kickdown anytime but with more low end torque car feels way less heavy and 8AT gearbox lets you use this torque without switching few gears back and you overtake other cars in a blink while not reving a lot. itís not a rocket science to mount big turbo on engine, but to make it powerful at high rpms while still having great low end torque is not so easy as it looks
More torque down low means more shit will break. You want a linear power band. Max torque when tuned that low in the rpm means you're gonna blow up your transmission and probably snap driveshafts.
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      07-16-2018, 05:13 PM   #1485
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Hello! I flash my car today with Bootmod3 and I'am newbie this petrol car tuning (old diesel guy ) So Im running stage 2 93 octane, I have FMIC, straight downpipe and charge pipe changed. My car is F30 335i xDrive 2012 PWG. Now I test some logging and post it here, so can You tell if something is wrong.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5b4cfbc8d10b4304ffb15726
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5b4cfe88d10b4304ffb1572c

Here is link. So what You think?

Thank you!
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      07-17-2018, 02:07 AM   #1486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
More torque down low means more shit will break. You want a linear power band. Max torque when tuned that low in the rpm means you're gonna blow up your transmission and probably snap driveshafts.
yes yes, tell it to m4 gts owners who have 600Nm stock from low end.
talking about transmission- this 8AT is designed to hold 550nm, so ~600nm is not a problem, no matter what rpm range.
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      07-17-2018, 02:13 AM   #1487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes yes, tell it to m4 gts owners who have 600Nm stock from low end.
talking about transmission- this 8AT is designed to hold 550nm, so ~600nm is not a problem, no matter what rpm range.
I'm considering a PS2... I'm thinking you guys with PS2's now are probably running Race core intercoolers... I'm thinking if I stick with my current 5" stepcore that the driveablity here in the city shouldn't really be an issue... don't plan on tracking the car soooo...
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      07-17-2018, 03:20 AM   #1488
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This is a BM3 thread. Need a new thread for turbo physics. I'll provide the following, hoping to close the debate.

All you guys need to know:
1) PS2 works well with EWG OTS.
2) PS2 PWG is a PITA to tune. PWG OTS 2H is a hit and miss. In most cases, you need custom and hugh amount of time to dial in PWG PS2 on a flash only basis, if ever possible at all. Many tuners just gave in to piggyback stack up.
3) PS2 has noticeable lag compared to stock turbo. No question asked. No ego stuff. No whitewash. It's a matter of if the power is worth the lag, which it is in my opinion.

I've built, driven, tested and logged PS2. There is no denying lag be felt on the road and be seen from log. I've also experienced almost all the hybrid turbos that's ever available to N55s all the way from PS1, PS2, Dinan, VTTO STG2, TTE460 and G Power 500 (my current setup).

On pump gas, PS2 seems to flow more than octane can support, in other words, you can happily leave headroom, making less heat for power consistency.

See below thread that physically compares PS2 to other turbos. PS2 is as big as a hybrid can get. Take a look if you want.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1501569
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      07-17-2018, 06:19 AM   #1489
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Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes yes, tell it to m4 gts owners who have 600Nm stock from low end.
talking about transmission- this 8AT is designed to hold 550nm, so ~600nm is not a problem, no matter what rpm range.
The 8AT is designed to hold 350 ft/lbs, it can probably hold 500 max. . And M4 have different driveshafts (carbon fiber) and they run DCT. Not to mention the S55 is different from N55.
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      07-17-2018, 11:34 AM   #1490
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Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
The 8AT is designed to hold 350 ft/lbs, it can probably hold 500 max. . And M4 have different driveshafts (carbon fiber) and they run DCT. Not to mention the S55 is different from N55.
n55 or 8at will not be damaged from 600Nm at 2500rpm. tested many times.
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      07-17-2018, 12:32 PM   #1491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
This is a BM3 thread. Need a new thread for turbo physics. I'll provide the following, hoping to close the debate.

All you guys need to know:
1) PS2 works well with EWG OTS.
2) PS2 PWG is a PITA to tune. PWG OTS 2H is a hit and miss. In most cases, you need custom and hugh amount of time to dial in PWG PS2 on a flash only basis, if ever possible at all. Many tuners just gave in to piggyback stack up.
3) PS2 has noticeable lag compared to stock turbo. No question asked. No ego stuff. No whitewash. It's a matter of if the power is worth the lag, which it is in my opinion.

I've built, driven, tested and logged PS2. There is no denying lag be felt on the road and be seen from log. I've also experienced almost all the hybrid turbos that's ever available to N55s all the way from PS1, PS2, Dinan, VTTO STG2, TTE460 and G Power 500 (my current setup).

On pump gas, PS2 seems to flow more than octane can support, in other words, you can happily leave headroom, making less heat for power consistency.

See below thread that physically compares PS2 to other turbos. PS2 is as big as a hybrid can get. Take a look if you want.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1501569
  1. Yup. Even custom turbos EWG works well with OTS. That's the beauty of the Electronic actuator when properly calibrated to stock routines
  2. Actually.... if a tuner has had properly developed maps for a PS2 PWG car.... it's trivial to dial in boost control for PWG.
  3. I feel lag is a bit subjective and it is entirely based on the tune as well. It's very possible to gain 1-300rpm of "spool" with proper tuning. While I haven't driven a PS2 PWG car personally... my EWG M2 seems to spool best around 3K rpm as well. I'm not a fan of mashing it down low in all honesty so if turbo can hit peak spool in about 200-500rpm depending on which gear that's perfect for me.
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      07-17-2018, 10:42 PM   #1492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
  1. Yup. Even custom turbos EWG works well with OTS. That's the beauty of the Electronic actuator when properly calibrated to stock routines
  2. Actually.... if a tuner has had properly developed maps for a PS2 PWG car.... it's trivial to dial in boost control for PWG.
  3. I feel lag is a bit subjective and it is entirely based on the tune as well. It's very possible to gain 1-300rpm of "spool" with proper tuning. While I haven't driven a PS2 PWG car personally... my EWG M2 seems to spool best around 3K rpm as well. I'm not a fan of mashing it down low in all honesty so if turbo can hit peak spool in about 200-500rpm depending on which gear that's perfect for me.
Joe, thanks for the input. I agree but want to add:

1) Lag is a perception but there is no denying of its existence. I know many cannot live with A45 AMG sluggishness while the other feel no lag at all. However, to put things in the context, we did back to back log testing of stock turbo and PS2. With same car, same map, same fuel, same hardware, same testing condition or same everything except for turbo, there is a 800-1000rpm spool delay with PS2 on 3rd gear, compared to stock turbo. And we certainly feel that 1k rpm power loss on the road, most of the time.

2) Tuning makes a difference. But no kidding, turbo is mechanically driven by exhaust gas momentum. Nobody half opens waste gate to slow it down when you're calling it out. Some map would progressively reduce duty circle when boost gets close to target, but that's about it. However, going from off boost, all maps do absolutely the same thing - spool up the stupid snail as quick as possible. That's why tuning will not make a laggy turbo feel any less laggy.

3) Turbo responsiveness and power band are two entirely different things.
It's a common mistake to think a quick spool = low end torque surge. Truth is, it's the down low target that dictates down low torque. And turbo responsiveness dictate how quick you get to that target.
Another common misunderstanding is downshifting to higher rpm makes instant power. Not remotely true. Turbo always needs time to spool up, only at a higher rpm it spools quicker, something you don't get to see from dyno chart.
Hence the bloody fact - in real world turbo responsiveness affects power delivery throughout the band.
Turbo engineering spares no effort to achieve zero response time to any pedal input like with NA - instantly power anywhere, and there is no torque surge anywhere.

Let's close the topic. PS2 is laggy but is powerful enough to justify the lag, in my opinion.
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      07-18-2018, 04:13 PM   #1493
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Just got my fabspeed catted DP installed today, have chargepipe and FMIC installed already as well, I'm about to get Bootmod3 I want to run 93 Oct, OTS Stage 2 Map

Question: Will the tune make my car louder?
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      07-18-2018, 04:36 PM   #1494
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It depends.

Cold start off - quieter on initial startup

Burbles - anywhere from none to aggressive. none is very quiet. aggressive is very loud. these are user selectable.

cruising - no difference over stock form what I can tell. the DP will make your exhaust note louder regardless of tune.

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Originally Posted by Bmwman325 View Post
Just got my fabspeed catted DP installed today, have chargepipe and FMIC installed already as well, I'm about to get Bootmod3 I want to run 93 Oct, OTS Stage 2 Map

Question: Will the tune make my car louder?
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      07-18-2018, 05:24 PM   #1495
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Originally Posted by Bmwman325 View Post
Just got my fabspeed catted DP installed today, have chargepipe and FMIC installed already as well, I'm about to get Bootmod3 I want to run 93 Oct, OTS Stage 2 Map

Question: Will the tune make my car louder?
What exhaust do you have with the DP? How much louder is it and how do you like it? Any drone?
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      07-18-2018, 11:09 PM   #1496
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When you select a map how long does it usually take for bootmod3 to import the tune? I selected a tune and its stuck on importing....please wait.

I'm going to try again in the morning. How long does the import process usually take?
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