[Patterson]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Since the timing chain and guides are OK it was not the fault. The oil pump chain is covered as well, but that also doesn't seem affected. It looks like there was a bearing failure that clogged the pump with debris, which then led to overheating and more bearing failures. What could have caused the initial bearing failure may never be known.

Thanks. In the shorter video the tech lays the bearing on a table and says it was a bearing failure and goes on to say "the most likely cause is a lack of lubrication".

My point of view is that if the bearings were getting plenty of oil, they would not fail at 73,000 miles, and the connecting rods, getting enough oil, would not cook the way they did.

[Patterson]

I just got off the phone with the dealer. One thing he said is that we had no low oil pressure light or code, so the rod bearing failure must have happened fast, sent copper debris into the oil, then clogging the oil pump, followed by catastrophic failure.

He says oil pump is good, but has no way to prove it/test it. This dealer has about an acre of work shop garage space; they must have 30 lifts, hard to believe they can't test an oil pump.

If we assume the oil pump was okay, then the rod bearings were getting enough oil and they failed anyway. He came back w/ a hypothetical: Maybe when it was in for an oil change, a tech started the engine with no oil in it, realized his mistake and shut it off. Put oil in it, returned our car, but with compromised bearings. Sure, maybe, but the quality of being a tech is based on training, and not making a dumb dumb mistake like that. We trust trained experts in everyday scenarios for a reason, so his hypothetical is unlikely, however, it is possible, also impossible to prove.

At this point the dealer and an in house BMW rep. from BMW NA are content with a rod bearing failure having killed the motor at 73,000 miles; given.

All oil changes were up to date, some even done more often than BMW recommends.

We always filled up with premium gasoline

We didn't race the car outside of a couple of WOTs, maybe twice a year.

Car has no aftermarket modifications.

The BMW rep. is going to call me tomorrow. I'm just trying to get some help from BMW, I don't figure I'm due a free motor, but some help appears reasonable.

[Billfitz]

Sometimes things break for no apparent reason.

[dangerus_car]

Originally Posted by Patterson

Hi fellas, I really appreciate the replies. If you have a few minutes, I've posted the video links the dealer sent. I'm going to talk to them today, I could use any insight you might be able to share after watching the videos. They're just a couple minutes each. Thanks!

http://www.mkvwa17.com/p/VLjXWw.html

http://www.mkvwa29.com/p/rq9xhq.html

usually i see rod bearing failure on the previous M3 / M5 since it's a V8 engine and since it's n/a, so it has high rev, never see one on a turbo engine before

[Patterson]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Sometimes things break for no apparent reason.

In Engineering Failure Analysis, we call that VooDoo.

[Billfitz]

In the Corps we called it 'shit happens'.

[Patterson]

I'm finding that the N20/26, and even the M3 and M5 engines have some history of early rod bearing failure due to tolerance stack up that minimizes the space inside the oil journals.

I don't imagine it went to lawsuit and overall numbers are probably low compared to units produced. But, when it happens to your car, it's hard not to expect some help from BMW when the engine had up to date oil changes, and only 73K miles on it.

Also, in general I'm just getting a bunch of hand waving from the Svc. dept. and no data, no numbers, no test of the TC assy. or the oil pump assy. No video of the timing chain b4 disassembly, as was understood at first. What was the tension on the TC before they removed it? How much oil was in the engine before they removed the pan?

Just a tip of the hat and an A-okay, "you're not covered under the settlement, and you're going to have to eat those rod bearings that burned up early"

Best thing I read on these forums when we first got the car was "These cars are shit; you don't own them outside of warranty"

At that time we did have the extended BMW warranty, and before it expired I had advised my wife to buy another warranty (her car), but she dragged her feet and didn't do it!

[dangerus_car]

so what are you going to do next? fix and sell? fix and keep? sell as is?

[Patterson]

Originally Posted by crislee

so what are you going to do next? fix and sell? fix and keep? sell as is?

Great question. What I'm going to do next is talk to a rep from BMW NA tomorrow. If that ends up nowhere, we're going to fix via indy shop, keep for a year, and then sell.

Talking to the rep tomorrow, I'm going to point out all the missing info in their diagnosis, info that is now lost bc they dismantled everything without taking proper measurements. Then I'll let him explain why I have so little info to go on, when I am the one they are supposed to convince. I'll politely reduce every reason they have for not extending either the settlement coverage to us, or extending some goodwill in light of the early rod bearing failure, to absurdity.

I'll explain that what they did is not how failure analysis done. I've been an engineer for 20 years and have done my share of FA. Dealers are certified per ISO 9xxx standards to protect customers. That 'quality' certification is only granted when they qualify by showing that they follow standard operating procedures for things like failure analysis. In the 2 vids they sent, they went by a checklist, not an SOP. But they expect me to believe their conclusion that safeguards them and leaves me out in the cold.

These analysis being conducted by BMW alone and the final disposition being their call raises concerns of anti-trust. BMW with their failed German Engineering is playing both sides of the game. They lower the warranty coverage on new BMWs every year, then they sell to the uniformed; there's an idiot born every minute or so.

BMW has become a crap brand. Know that as an owner. They're fun machines until they become a nightmare.

I'll raise the other points I've mentioned here and at the least get the dealer to wave the $1,500 for their crap diagnosis and then I'll drag the Ultimate Parking Machine home, and pay them nothing.

[Patterson]

Think of it, after an engine fail and costly recovery, you still have to consider the SULEV components and if they are covered in your state for your model year.

I just had the fuel pump replaced on my 2002 Jaguar X Type. Drop the tank etc. parts and labor = $700.

On a SULEV BMW a failed fuel pump is about $7,000 to get back on the road. The fuel pump and fuel tank are molded together somehow to make a single unit that spills less exhaust to the surroundings.

This Jag has 165,000 miles on the rod bearings, timing chain, oil pump, and most everything else. I could drive her to Mars tonight if I wanted to.

[sspade]

@patterson get ready… cause you'll be paying the $1500 tear down fee that you signed on the dotted line for.

You dont think you're the first asshole engineer that BMWNA has come across, do you?

Between you and your wife, you beat the piss out of your three series, didn't maintain it properly and now its everyone else's fault.

Get a grip and buy a Toyota next.

And the Jaguar generation you keep mentioning is widely regarded as one of the worst ever made. Not a real Jag, its a Ford that lost over $5k per unit sold as a result of poor sales and market reception.

[Patterson]

I had a call with the Svc. manager and the shop foreman, today. It was a good talk and I stuck to calmly highlighting their lack of hard info to convince me that I deserve no help from them. I put the shop foreman on his heels a few times when he couldn't answer some pretty logical questions. He went as far as to say they have no way of measuring the tension of the timing chain. I nicely let them know that ppl have taken these cars to dealer preemptively after hearing of the lawsuit settlement and had tension measured. I've read here that some replaced the TC at that time upon learning it was out of spec. Again, on his heels.

The Svc. mgr seemed to then come in to provide cover fire in the way of other possible coverages, or some concession from BMW, and even something in combination that the dealer itself can work out for us. That likely means them taking our dead BMW as a trade in, putting some water in the deal, and getting my wife back on the road in a newer one. I let him know that buying another BMW is a real head shaker for me at this point, considering my completely awesome 20 year old Jaguar; but let me know what you come up with.

He promised to make some calls; I'll hear from him later this week.

[BennettBucsFan]

Patterson, I think it's hilarious they said they have no way to check the timing chain tension when this is one of the repairs listed in ISTA. I have been unable to find this tool for purchase but apparently the dealerships have them on hand.

[CH2015]

how can I find out whether my car is part of the production range that is included in the Settlement Class?

[KnudsonM3]

Originally Posted by CH2015

how can I find out whether my car is part of the production range that is included in the Settlement Class?

Look up your production date and see if its included.

[Patterson]

Included in the BMW timing chain lawsuit are these vehicles.

2012-2015 BMW X1
2013-2015 BMW X3
2015 BMW Z4
2012-2015 BMW X4
2014-2015 BMW 228i Coupe, Convertible
2012-2015 BMW 320i
2012-2015 BMW 328i Sedan, Sports Wagon, Gran Turismo
2014-2015 BMW 428i Coupe, Convertible, Gran Coupe
2014-2015 BMW 428i xDrive
2014-2015 BMW 528i Sedan
2012-2015 BMW 428i xDrive
2012-2015 BMW 528i

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-reached.shtml

[gameson]

Any update on your case? It’s been two months since your last post.

Originally Posted by Patterson

Included in the BMW timing chain lawsuit are these vehicles.

2012-2015 BMW X1
2013-2015 BMW X3
2015 BMW Z4
2012-2015 BMW X4
2014-2015 BMW 228i Coupe, Convertible
2012-2015 BMW 320i
2012-2015 BMW 328i Sedan, Sports Wagon, Gran Turismo
2014-2015 BMW 428i Coupe, Convertible, Gran Coupe
2014-2015 BMW 428i xDrive
2014-2015 BMW 528i Sedan
2012-2015 BMW 428i xDrive
2012-2015 BMW 528i

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-reached.shtml

[Patterson]

This whole thing has really turned my stomach, but we are still fighting because BMW NA and the dealership, where our car sits, are in cahoots and should not get away with the bs story they are peddling.
A month ago I sent a letter to each; the court in NJ and three plaintiff's lawyers offices that are supposed to represent us. I have not heard back from any of them. However, an item in the legal decision states: It is in the best interest of both parties to bring disputes to the court, to be reconciled by the court. But I have not heard from the court.

This is the letter I sent to the court 5 weeks ago. I will send this to the NJ State’s attorney this week.

Re: BMW Timing Chain Class Action Lawsuit Settlement
Gelis, et al. v. BMW of North America, LLC: Civil Action No. 2:17-cv-07386
United States District Court of New Jersey


I am writing to inform the court and the bench that the Defendant in this case, BMA North America LLC, who has entered into a legally binding Class Action Lawsuit Settlement, is now abrogating their obligations to the settlement terms that they agreed to in the Honorable District Court of New Jersey, where the Settlement was approved February 16, 2021.
I am a Class member of this Settlement who sits with a failed BMW car for its engine which was starved of oil because of the failed oil pump. The drive components on this oil pump are covered in the lawsuit settlement, all the way up to the point of engine replacement.
This is what my car requires: Engine replacement due to failed oil pump drive chain assembly.
However, I am rebuffed by BMW NA when I present my valid case under the Settlement.
My case shows a clear reason for the failure of the engine through information received from the dealership that diagnosed the failure; Lack of Lubrication is the cause.
The Defendant, BMW North America Corporation, is very intertwined with the supposedly separate entities that make up the BMW network of dealerships. As I have learned through conversations with representatives of the dealership, and representatives of BMW NA, they hold offices together and rubber stamp each others work.

This leaves the Plaintiffs in a situation no better than if there had been no lawsuit and no settlement. My case shows clear evidence of oil starvation to the engine, and subsequent failure of the engine.

After being rebuffed by the dealership and resident BMW NA representative I turned to the lawyer team that brought the Class Action. The plaintiffs attorneys, in effect my attorneys, offered little help to me as far as recourse from BMW NA for my loss.

I may ask if the court ordered Settlement has any teeth. Is it impotent and void of consequence to the signers? If this be the circumstance, then decisions made in this court have selective consequence, if any at all.
I ask that the court remind both the council for the plaintiff and defendant, that they have been compensated by the outpouring of funds from the Settlement and they owe allegiance to seeing through, the terms therein.

Any deviations from honoring the terms of the lawsuit Settlement must be considered by the court for further action, in order to make whole the plaintiffs who brought the Class Action in the first place.