[-AndyH-]

When changing over my winter wheels in the week, the locking nut key broke causing the breaking bar to fly into the alloy and take a chip out of it.

Took the car to the local dealer, who said it had to be booked in for a warranty claim. They acknowledged what had happened and agreed to submit the claim to BMW.

The next day, I took the car to the dealership for them to submit the claim. 20 mins later, the workshop manager comes out and says he will not submit it because it's not a warranty claim as the locking nut key is subject to wear and tear and the dealership has no knowledge of the torque setting I had use to tighten the locking nut (even though I pointed out everything was had torqued to 140Nm). This is the second time the locking nut key had been used.

Rang BMW UK and they said there is nothing they can do as it's a dealership issue. This is the same dealership that I had previously had issues with because of poor workmanship and damage to my last BMW.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Hard one this one.

From a purely warranty point of view.

Did the dealership fit your winter wheels or yourself,

If yourself, then it can't be a warranty claim.

The most you could get is a replacement wheel nut key.

However, as good will gesture would have been nice if they offered to refurb the wheel.

[robbiep]

I tend to agree with Brigand on this one. If they fitted the winters on for you, then you've got a better case. But if not, then it's a goodwill matter.

[-AndyH-]

I fail to understand why it matter's who fits them?

The dealer was even unaware of the correct torque for the wheels (still referring to 120Nm for some reason). Every time I have had the wheels off/on on any of my cars before at the dealer, they have never torqued them correctly.

Does this mean if you get the tyres changed at anywhere other than a dealer and a lug nut breaks, BMW will not allow a warranty claim?

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

I fail to understand why it matter's who fits them?

The dealer was even unaware of the correct torque for the wheels (still referring to 120Nm for some reason). Every time I have had the wheels off/on on any of my cars before at the dealer, they have never torqued them correctly.

Does this mean if you get the tyres changed at anywhere other than a dealer and a lug nut breaks, BMW will not allow a warranty claim?

Unfortunately from the dealers point of view you could have used 180nm etc.

Just for clarity are you on about the socket nut key?

The bit that attaches to the torque wrench / power bar?

Or are you referring to the actual wheel nut?

[teaston]

Sorry mate i have to agree with the dealer here, if you carry out work on your own car then you're responsible for any damage caused.

You can tell them till you're blue in the face that you had the correct torques, put the key on correctly, used the correct equipment, applied the correct method etc. but it is just your word, which obviously they can't take because if they did then people would abuse it.

[Kal101]

Originally Posted by teaston

Sorry mate i have to agree with the dealer here, if you carry out work on your own car then you're responsible for any damage caused.

You can tell them till you're blue in the face that you had the correct torques, put the key on correctly, used the correct equipment, applied the correct method etc. but it is just your word, which obviously they can't take because if they did then people would abuse it.

+1 on that unfortunately.

[Andy30D]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

When changing over my winter wheels in the week, the locking nut key broke causing the breaking bar to fly into the alloy and take a chip out of it.

Took the car to the local dealer, who said it had to be booked in for a warranty claim. They acknowledged what had happened and agreed to submit the claim to BMW.

The next day, I took the car to the dealership for them to submit the claim. 20 mins later, the workshop manager comes out and says he will not submit it because it's not a warranty claim as the locking nut key is subject to wear and tear and the dealership has no knowledge of the torque setting I had use to tighten the locking nut (even though I pointed out everything was had torqued to 140Nm). This is the second time the locking nut key had been used.

Rang BMW UK and they said there is nothing they can do as it's a dealership issue. This is the same dealership that I had previously had issues with because of poor workmanship and damage to my last BMW.

Why on earth did you go back there if you had issues with them the first time. Goes back to why dealers don't care, because you'll go back and spend money with them anyway, irrelevant of how crap they treat you.

Unsure what else you can do, other than try somewhere else!

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by Andy30D

Why on earth did you go back there if you had issues with them the first time. Goes back to why dealers don't care, because you'll go back and spend money with them anyway, irrelevant of how crap they treat you.

Unsure what else you can do, other than try somewhere else!

Because this dealer is 5 minutes away and the next dealer is a good 1hr round trip.

As it was a simple thing, I thought it would be straightforward.

The thing that annoys me is when I went in the first time, the service advisor took the locking nut key over to the head of the workshop who agreed to submit a warranty claim, but needed the car booked in.

When I go back the second time, he obviously then knows who I am and the reg of my car (from previous issues) and suddenly refuses to submit a claim.

I don't mind so much arguing with BMW if they would refuse the claim - but it's the point that the dealer agreed to submit a claim and requested I book the car in. What was the point of that if they had no intention of submitting a claim (other than to waste my time)?

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Unfortunately from the dealers point of view you could have used 180nm etc.

Just for clarity are you on about the socket nut key?

The bit that attaches to the torque wrench / power bar?

Or are you referring to the actual wheel nut?

Yeah, it's the socket nut key. Part of it snapped off/deformed so it is now useless.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

Yeah, it's the socket nut key. Part of it snapped off/deformed so it is now useless.

Again it's tricky.

If the dealer had put your wheels on and within x amount of time you carried out a routine torque check - which we should all do actually.

If the socket broke then, you could ask for a replacement socket, however it would not be covered by warranty, just good will.

So as for the damage to alloy, that is 100% not a warranty repair.


A lot depends on how a customer reports this.

All angry going on about crap BMW sockets etc = not a chance.

Polite approach explaining how the socket just disintegrated, concern this may be an issue for others etc, OH and it caused damage to my alloy = 'Possibly' a good will gesture to repair alloy.


Warranty basics are that the owner takes reasonable care of the product, does not tamper with certian areas, only specif areas will be covered. Accessories provided are not covered by main warranty BUT may have their own limited warranty.

[-AndyH-]

I understand what you're saying Brigand, but it's more the attitude of the dealership that has annoyed me. I've gone in there very politely, asked them what to do and they've agreed to submit a warranty claim but need the car booked in. The car is then back with them for the warranty claim and they suddenly refuse to submit a claim.

I have just come back from another dealer. They said there is a known issue with some nut keys and they have had them replaced under warranty before. They have submitted the claim to BMW. The service technician there said they check the fit of the locking key each time now before using it, to make sure it's not slipping.

It begs the question how you can get such a different service from two different dealers. The fact that there is a known issue on some nut keys makes it even worse (in my opinion).

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by -AndyH-

I understand what you're saying Brigand, but it's more the attitude of the dealership that has annoyed me. I've gone in there very politely, asked them what to do and they've agreed to submit a warranty claim but need the car booked in. The car is then back with them for the warranty claim and they suddenly refuse to submit a claim.

I have just come back from another dealer. They said there is a known issue with some nut keys and they have had them replaced under warranty before. They have submitted the claim to BMW. The service technician there said they check the fit of the locking key each time now before using it, to make sure it's not slipping.

It begs the question how you can get such a different service from two different dealers. The fact that there is a known issue on some nut keys makes it even worse (in my opinion).

Just because there is a warranty against something, does not always make it simple to get something swapped / work carried out.

Unfortunately, no matter the item or product type, people can be either inherently lazy, don't know how to make a warranty return via their own RMA system or just down right rude or stupid.

Too me there is no reason to book the car in for this type of claim, they should have only required you vin / key.

If you have not had it replaced, it's worth try at this other dealership.

Every time you use any tool, especially sockets etc, you should always carry out a pre use check - saves your knuckles and damage to stuff.

[tjlees]

I'm kinda with Andy here. If you pull the door handle and it falls off, it's a warranty claim. I don't see BMW saying you should only pull with an authorised 80nm, claiming you used >100mn therefore claim invalid.

I swap over my wheels all the time so would be annoyed if the nut key broke - twice.

Go to another dealer that does not know you maybe?

Edit: just read you've done that

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by tjlees

I'm kinda with Andy here. If you pull the door handle and it falls off, it's a warranty claim. I don't see BMW saying you should only pull with an authorised 80nm, claiming you used >100mn therefore claim invalid.

I swap over my wheels all the time so would be annoyed if the nut key broke - twice.

Go to another dealer that does not know you maybe?

Edit: just read you've done that

It's NOT part of the car, it is an ACCESSORY. This type of thing has a limited warranty.

Due to it being a tool, then it is only fair for any manufacturer for the person having to categorically prove it failed under normal use.


However, in this case, where there is known precedence for the socket shearing, then yes dealership should have just replaced.

Just don't mix up the actual car warranty with accessories such as tools, mud flaps, post delivery fitted bits such as spoilers.

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Too me there is no reason to book the car in for this type of claim, they should have only required you vin / key.

Apparently, they have to connect your car to their computers to submit a claim. There needs to be some car data send over to Germany via TRACE (if this is correct?).

Out of interest - what do people think happens if a part fails that requires a serviceable part to be replaced also (i.e. say a brake piston fails and it requires a new pad/disc)? Do you expect the warranty will cover this?

[-AndyH-]

Originally Posted by Brigand

It's NOT part of the car, it is an ACCESSORY. This type of thing has a limited warranty.

This is where I disagree - it came with the car from new, I didn't pay extra for it. Wheel lug nuts should be part of the car as they don't appear in the accessory booklet.

[NISFAN]

No offence meant Andy, but if the breaker bar flew into the alloy, it sounds like you weren't supporting it properly.

If you don't use both hands to counteract the angular twist, it should come as no surprise that the McGard adapter sheared. It has to be perfectly squarely seated.

Apologies if you did use the correct technique, but FWIW, I would never torque a locking nut more than around 95Nm. They might be OK for 120Nm but will seize a little and need more than 120Nm to loosen next time. Matter of time before they shear.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by Brigand

It's NOT part of the car, it is an ACCESSORY. This type of thing has a limited warranty.

Due to it being a tool, then it is only fair for any manufacturer for the person having to categorically prove it failed under normal use.


However, in this case, where there is known precedence for the socket shearing, then yes dealership should have just replaced.

Just don't mix up the actual car warranty with accessories such as tools, mud flaps, post delivery fitted bits such as spoilers.

Yep I can understand the accessory and consumable thing for brakes etc.

But sales of goods act is about being fit for purpose which applies to everything, which seems to be the other dealers tact anyway.

Glad the OP got it sorted and at least if mine goes I know the party line.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by tjlees

Yep I can understand the accessory and consumable thing for brakes etc.

But sales of goods act is about being fit for purpose which applies to everything, which seems to be the other dealers tact anyway.

Glad the OP got it sorted and at least if mine goes I know the party line.

You are mixing up specific sales of goods acts with various types of warranty.

Even if you bought a specific socket from halfords, you would need receipt, it would need to be within a specific time frame and proved you had taken reasonable steps.

So in this case socket worked taking off summers and fitting winters. It then failed taking of winters, - well it was working as advertised, however where reasonable steps taken?

Note: not being argumentative over it saying OP did anything wrong. Just something's you can hammer the dealer for some you can't.

[-AndyH-]

Just to be clear here, I'm talking about the security socket adapter that comes with the car that failed/broke.

The SoGA protects you for up to 6 years. Say after 3 years, your engine blows up and you're out of the manufacturer's warranty. As long as you can show you've had the car serviced and used in accordance with the manufacturer's guidelines, then I would expect you to be covered by the SoGA. Being able to enforce the SoGA is a different thing though.

If anyone remembers this story - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/arti...acturing-fault

BMW have since issued a quality enhancement to replace the timing chain/tensioner on the affected N47 engines, but only if you go to a dealership (no letters are being sent out). This is 3 to 6 years after the manufacturer warranty would have run out.

[robbiep]

SOGA is fine, BUT it doesn't protect you from everything.
For example, the garage can reasonably say that you may have used the bar improperly (as someone else here has already suggested), in which case it is damage you have caused yourself, or rather by your negligent actions.

NISFAN's post started : "No offence meant Andy, but if the breaker bar flew into the alloy, it sounds like you weren't supporting it properly"

If that was the case, (and nobody on here can definitively say it was or wasn't the case, apart from yourself, and you'll obviously have a biased opinion), then SOGA is totally irrelevant.