[Rabidegiraffe]

(Apologies for double posting this, but I realised the general chat is more US focused)

Absolute nightmare.

While these stories do appear to be rare, I'm currently slap bang in the middle of one.

Breakdown, Friday June 15, 6.50am, Rush Hour M25, Fast Lane.
On the way to a weekend of golf and world cup at the Belfry, Birmingham, from South London with a couple of mates. Stop start traffic between J10/11, nothing too unusual. I start pulling away and hit highish revs, about to shift into fourth when I feel the car pull back. Assuming I've somehow managed to stall it, I try to gently kickstart into 4th, then 3rd. Nothing. Around 40mph now, and people starting to go past in the inside lanes, starting to get that horrible feeling in your stomach. Stay calm, neutral, push the ignition. 'Ignition malfunction' flashes up. OK OK. Let's try it again. 'Ignition malfunction'. 'Ignition malfunction'. 'Ignition malfunction'. 30mph.

Gah. I can't turn across three lanes and into the hard shoulder, it's rush hour and the lanes are packed, I'm in a rapidly slowing car and the only thing for it is to hit the hazards and try to get as far into the centre reservation run off as I can. I end up two wheels in, two wheels out of the fast lane, cars streaming past now up to speed and no option but to stay in the car and call the AA and traffic control. Turns out we've stopped a couple hundred yards from the gantry, which immediately changes to show a massive X and for that extra layer of embarrassment, 'Stranded car in lane'. In full view. A bit of humour in a horrendous situation. We sit tight, waiting for a lorry to shunt up the back of us.

Recovery
An hour later, the traffic boys show up, slow the entire M25 to a halt and help us push the car across the lanes to the hard shoulder. Finally, off the road. AA arrives 15 minutes later and as it turns out, we're 1/4 mile from the J11 turn off. I'm still assuming it's a simple ignition failure and we'll have a minor repair and be on our way in no time, ready for a 1pm tee off. So naive.

Stopping off at the nearest Shell garage, he takes a look. Tries to crank the engine. Nope. Tries again. Nope. His face is a picture. Mine is not. 'Think it's the engine mate'. Stomach goes again. OK, composure. Luckily (for the 2nd time) there is a BMW Cobham garage 20 mins drive away. Luckily (for the 3rd time) there is also an Enterprise 10 minutes beyond that. Car gets towed to BMW, key gets dropped, cart all our gear into an Uber and hire a car from Enterprise to The Belfry. All in all, about a 3 hour delay. Could have been worse, right?

Wrong
I take a call in the hire car on the way to the Belfry – 'We've started to look at the car, we'll let you know what we think the issue is as soon as we can, but we’re booked in for services with a 3 week wait list.’ OK, not ideal, but they should at the very least be able to give me a date for the car to get looked at this week, right? Right?

Nope. had to wait nearly weeks to get a firm answer on when the car could be properly inspected to find the cause. In fairness to them they did do a prelim check within 2 weeks, but this simply turned up what I already knew from the AA. During this period, I was given positive (but not guaranteed) assurances that they would be applying for 100% goodwill via BMW.

The kicker
After waiting nearly 5 weeks, I had an answer to what caused the engine failure. Not the timing chain, which is a known issue and visible throughout several threads on the N20 on this forum. Thrust bearing failure, which in turn has caused the crankshaft to fail and the big end to fail. Hardly a minor issue. It’s important to clarify at this point that the car has full BMW service history, under 4 years old, and has done 52k (Previously based in Scotland, most likely used as a business vehicle/motorway miles) and was due another service in around 500 miles (just my luck). Interestingly the last oil service was at 39k – could it be that BMWs policy of extending oil changes has done for the engine here?

Goodwill or not to Goodwill
So the latest update – because the car was bought from a third party dealer (CarGiant) BMW are currently not willing to proceed any further with the claim, and have directed me to return to CarGiant to effectively repair or replace through the 6 month consumer rights rule regarding major faults and presence of said fault at POS. I’m waiting for a response from them, now entering the 6th week of this debacle. Whilst I do understand the reason for pushback on BMWs part, in my view it is still a manufacturing fault so I believe that they should shoulder some responsibility.

The customer service from BMW (I should really say Inchcape, as they’re the franchise dealer) has been so so. It’s not been terrible, but the question around where the car was purchased could have been brought up earlier, they could have worked harder to fix a date for inspection without me having to threaten escalation to get one, they should have known that calling BMW direct was a dead end as they are the ones that need to raise a ticket on my behalf, and I should not have to wait nearly a week to get a scan of the technicians report to send to CarGiant for review.

What I would say is that luckily when chasing Cobham for the report my usual contact was away so a very helpful lady forwarded it on to me within a matter of hours, so it could be something to do with pot luck regarding who you get, or possibly it was the subtle reference to litigation if it took much longer. Who knows.

Will update when I hear back from CG. Suiting up is still very much an option.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Rabidegiraffe

An hour later, the traffic boys show up, slow the entire M25 to a halt and help us push the car across the lanes to the hard shoulder.

They left you stranded in lane 3/4 of the M25 for an hour??? That is insane - surely the Highways Agency or the police should be able to get to you in minutes...

On the goodwill front, if the car has been maintained (and been sold) outside the BMW network, then it seems fair enough to me for BMW to say it's not their problem.

I wish you luck in sorting this out though.

[xenon]

That's a bad-news story (well written, though ) and I hope you get it sorted out. I agree with you that with FBMWSH and average miles BMW should be doing more. The fact that it was sold outside the dealer network at some point is irrelevant. I could understand them washing their hands of it if it had been serviced outside of the network but it hasn't.

I'd try again with BMW.

[Lorcan]

A known fault with the N20, albeit not that common. You have my sympathy. Do you have any kind of extended warranty?

[GEP77]

Hope you get it all sorted. An interesting point you make regarding who you spoke to at the dealership. While I've never had anything to do with Cobham I have found that in my local two dealerships it is less about the dealership and more about who you speak to. Some are fantastic, others it is like getting blood from a stone.

I'm very surprised it took the highways agency so long to get to you at that point on the M25. It's a section of road I've become far too familiar with over the years and the womble density tends to be very high.

Good luck with CarGiant.

[robbiep]

If you've had the car for less than 6 months then Cargiant are entirely liable for any faults or failures under the CRA.

Basically, it is up to them to PROVE that any faults that happen within 6 months were NOT 'present or developing' at the time of sale, or that your actions have contributed to the faults or failures.

I suggest you write to Cargiant, giving them a further 7 days to get a response, after which you will reserve the right to get repairs carried out and then will pursue them through the courts for full re-imbursement.

[vadimo]

sorry to hear that as above said get in touch with car giant, also cobham bmw is very good in my experince

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by xenon

That's a bad-news story (well written, though ) and I hope you get it sorted out. I agree with you that with FBMWSH and average miles BMW should be doing more. The fact that it was sold outside the dealer network at some point is irrelevant. I could understand them washing their hands of it if it had been serviced outside of the network but it hasn't.

I'd try again with BMW.

+1. If the car has a FBMWSH then BMW has to shoulder the responsibility. This doesn't sound like a failure due to abuse or lack of maintenance; seems to be a latent defect in the component. As has been said, CarGiant may also have to honour your statutory rights (depending on how long ago you bought the car). The liability chain is probably you-CarGant-BMW.

I've found the Citizens Advice Bureau can give very helpful guidance and letter templates.

[Sasquartch]

It's stories like this that really make me glad my car is auc and kept up the extended warranty.
It's a difficult one to call as the failure is outside the 3 year warranty yet the sga or whatever it is now says a major item like an engine should be reasonably expected to last 7 years assuming reasonable mileage and use.
Have heard that cargiant are pretty fair compared to other supermarkets, eg imperial, big motoring world etc
Good luck and remain calm and unemotional in your communication with everyone and you should be able to reach an acceptable compromise. Just accept there probably will be some compromise though.

[CL53]

All the best with CG, when I bought my F30 they insisted that it came with no guarantee (unless I purchased their AA crap) and that even if I broke down on the way home, they were not liable!

I sincerely hope that it was just salesman spiel.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by CL53

All the best with CG, when I bought my F30 they insisted that it came with no guarantee (unless I purchased their AA crap) and that even if I broke down on the way home, they were not liable!

I sincerely hope that it was just salesman spiel.

I think it is just sales BS - the salesperson probably has a greater commission on warranty sales than anything else, hence the hard sell. Incidentally, I suspect that the salesperson is actually committing a criminal offence by denying rights in this way, under CPFUTR 2008. The Consumer Rights Act is pretty clear on responsibility if the car was bought less than 6 months before.

On reflection I would expect BMW goodwill to have covered this to some extent as well. However, I suspect that BMW are taking the approach which insurance companies take - if another insurance policy covers a particular loss, then they will make life as difficult as possible so the claimant takes the easier route. In this case Car Giant have nowhere to hide, so BMW might as well dig their heels in...

[vadimo]

Originally Posted by JD6

I think it is just sales BS - the salesperson probably has a greater commission on warranty sales than anything else, hence the hard sell. Incidentally, I suspect that the salesperson is actually committing a criminal offence by denying rights in this way, under CPFUTR 2008. The Consumer Rights Act is pretty clear on responsibility if the car was bought less than 6 months before.

On reflection I would expect BMW goodwill to have covered this to some extent as well. However, I suspect that BMW are taking the approach which insurance companies take - if another insurance policy covers a particular loss, then they will make life as difficult as possible so the claimant takes the easier route. In this case Car Giant have nowhere to hide, so BMW might as well dig their heels in...

something out of warranty and purchased elsewhere, i dont see how any business would be considering the case and subsidise its repair, think it might of been easier if it was purchased from BMW

Sorry just been realistic here....

Others saying thank god i purchased warranty probably doesn't help OP, you would not expect such failure from BMW and therefore warranty is a gamble.

You dealing with complicated product to build and manufacture, mechanics and electronics can have unfortunate life span, there are bad apples.

[Durham328]

Feel lucky reading this, my 328i went in with engine knocking when revved, turned out to be thrust bearing failure with excessive camshaft and big end wear so engine replaced...4 days before the AUC warranty ran out. Customer service was also not too great with it, got no warranty on the work at all and car came back with a damaged steering wheel again.

Is there a problem with BMW engines? Hearing of a lot of failures, especially the 30d engines going bang at around 110k on police cars

[NotGotABimmer23]

Should be a simple rejection, you have to give them (car giant) the opportunity to fix it and if they cant/wont then its refund.

[Jamese93]

Originally Posted by Durham328

Feel lucky reading this, my 328i went in with engine knocking when revved, turned out to be thrust bearing failure with excessive camshaft and big end wear so engine replaced...4 days before the AUC warranty ran out. Customer service was also not too great with it, got no warranty on the work at all and car came back with a damaged steering wheel again.

Is there a problem with BMW engines? Hearing of a lot of failures, especially the 30d engines going bang at around 110k on police cars

What's the story with the 330d engines, I have a 430d and had a 640d gran coupe before, I thought they were bomb proof? Extended service and police thrashing's killing them?

[Rabidegiraffe]

Yep, from what I can read, this seems to be legally sound, mainly because I'm still within the 6 month grace period. Thank Jebus.

I have just got off the phone with them – surprisingly accommodating (for now). Stated they will cover any investigative/diagnosis costs to date, and are calling Cobham now to clarify the tech report and work out next steps.

From what I can find, and as others have stated on here, CG have the legal right to attempt repair and if that fails, issue a refund due to the 6 month rule so long as it's established that the car was sold with the fault/was not caused by driver error.

However, this does place me in a difficult situation whereby if they feel they can repair it, it will devalue the resale value of the car. I'd much rather have BMW repair and have CG pay. That said, should I really be taking back a car with the potential for further failures? I don't exactly have the highest level of confidence in the condition and reliability of the car after this episode.

I also need to raise the question of covering the hire car cost, as well as asking for some kind of transportation option that isn't a bus while all this is being sorted out.

Also – can anyone please elaborate on the N20 'known issue' point? I was aware timing chains were prone to failure but not thrust bearings. It would be helpful to know. Thanks all.

[Rabidegiraffe]

Originally Posted by JD6

They left you stranded in lane 3/4 of the M25 for an hour??? That is insane - surely the Highways Agency or the police should be able to get to you in minutes...

On the goodwill front, if the car has been maintained (and been sold) outside the BMW network, then it seems fair enough to me for BMW to say it's not their problem.

I wish you luck in sorting this out though.

Yeah. Was pretty dicey. I had a met officer in the car tho so he immediately took control re. notification of highways, I had no idea. I do now.

The best/worst bit was closing the entire M25 and having the TO and my two mates push me and the car onto the hard shoulder in front of all the halted traffic. Never felt so many eyes of rage on me. In fairness to them I'd be doing exactly the same.

[Rabidegiraffe]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

A known fault with the N20, albeit not that common. You have my sympathy. Do you have any kind of extended warranty?

No extended warranty. Are you able to elaborate more on this being a known issue please? Would be very helpful. Thanks.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Rabidegiraffe

Yep, from what I can read, this seems to be legally sound, mainly because I'm still within the 6 month grace period. Thank Jebus.

I have just got off the phone with them – surprisingly accommodating (for now). Stated they will cover any investigative/diagnosis costs to date, and are calling Cobham now to clarify the tech report and work out next steps.

From what I can find, and as others have stated on here, CG have the legal right to attempt repair and if that fails, issue a refund due to the 6 month rule so long as it's established that the car was sold with the fault/was not caused by driver error.

However, this does place me in a difficult situation whereby if they feel they can repair it, it will devalue the resale value of the car. I'd much rather have BMW repair and have CG pay. That said, should I really be taking back a car with the potential for further failures? I don't exactly have the highest level of confidence in the condition and reliability of the car after this episode.

I also need to raise the question of covering the hire car cost, as well as asking for some kind of transportation option that isn't a bus while all this is being sorted out.

Also – can anyone please elaborate on the N20 'known issue' point? I was aware timing chains were prone to failure but not thrust bearings. It would be helpful to know. Thanks all.

Unfortunate as long as CG do fix the car properly you'll have to accept it and give them chance to. If you are concerned about future failures further down the line, I would look at Part exchanging it in the near future.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Rabidegiraffe

Yep, from what I can read, this seems to be legally sound, mainly because I'm still within the 6 month grace period. Thank Jebus.

I have just got off the phone with them – surprisingly accommodating (for now). Stated they will cover any investigative/diagnosis costs to date, and are calling Cobham now to clarify the tech report and work out next steps.

From what I can find, and as others have stated on here, CG have the legal right to attempt repair and if that fails, issue a refund due to the 6 month rule so long as it's established that the car was sold with the fault/was not caused by driver error.

However, this does place me in a difficult situation whereby if they feel they can repair it, it will devalue the resale value of the car. I'd much rather have BMW repair and have CG pay. That said, should I really be taking back a car with the potential for further failures? I don't exactly have the highest level of confidence in the condition and reliability of the car after this episode.

I also need to raise the question of covering the hire car cost, as well as asking for some kind of transportation option that isn't a bus while all this is being sorted out.

Also – can anyone please elaborate on the N20 'known issue' point? I was aware timing chains were prone to failure but not thrust bearings. It would be helpful to know. Thanks all.

A couple of slight corrections :

You say that CG have the legal right to attempt repair and if that fails, issue a refund due to the 6 month rule so long as it's established that the car was sold with the fault/was not caused by driver error.

This is incorrect. Under the CRA, it is assumed, unless it can be PROVED otherwise, that a fault that occurs within the first 6 months was 'present or developing' at the time of sale. The onus of any such PROOF falls on the retailer to establish.

You don't have any legal right to compensation for any perceived diminution of value, etc. They could entirely reasonably argue that you've now got a car with a fully rebuilt (or new !) engine, which would therefore add to the value of the car, and thus charge you for 'betterment', if that was the case.

There is no legal right for hire car to be supplied (or paid for), or for them to provide you with alternative means of transport whilst your car is being repaired.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by Rabidegiraffe

No extended warranty. Are you able to elaborate more on this being a known issue please? Would be very helpful. Thanks.

I first read about it here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1046951

[Jeff123]

I don’t think that it will devalue your car at all. If the faults are rectified in the correct manner, it’s the same as any other repair on the car. It’s not part of your service history, it’s a repair.

As for selling it after the repair, see what has to be done to it and then see how it goes afterwards.

I had an A4 engine blow out a few years ago and it had to be fully rebuilt. The actual car was fine, but the psychological effect was worse. I was just waiting for the same thing to happen again for the next two years.