[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by EstorilMSport

What exactly are we trying to confirm/dispel here? Virtual dyno is accurate/inaccurate? Why not jump on a dynojet and figure out what it's making?

Originally Posted by ZM2

Agreed on this, and all the VD talk is taking this thread sideways. Altho, EstorilMSport kudos on a stout build all the way back to 2018-19!

To get us back on track, bolt an aftermarket HPFP onto an FBO stock turbo EWG N55, flash this map, and you’re at ~425whp. Add a PS2 after that, and you’re 500+ whp.

I agree. I made the VD thread specifcally to discuss VD results, and i keep saying over and over putting other people's logs in VD is completely meaningless. You don't compare cars in VD, there are way too many variables its literally impossible to make a apples to apples comparison.

The entire point of VD is to use it as a tool to compare your own logs after hardware or software changes, with only one variable changed at a time, under the closest atmospheric conditions you can possibly get, and on exactly the same road to eliminate elevation changes (upslope/downslope) that would affect acceleration results. It's also useful for comparing back to back logs on your car to see things like how much getting timing corrections can affect your (estimated) power. I think the first two posts in my VD thead specifically illustrate this point, and they clearly demonstate the benefits of hardware and software changes and based on all other data from actual dynos and manufacturer claims they are quite accurate. But again putting a bunch of different people's logs in VD to compare to your own or eachother means nothing.

--> https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1710794

VD gets misused because people are obsessed with HP numbers for no reason at all. whether you are making xxx hp or xyy hp is irrelevant. All you need is a solid and reliable tune for your setup.

The only place VD would play a role relevant to this thread is if someone were to flash the BM3 stage 2 E30 map, go log, then flash the stage 2+ E30 map with no other changes, give the car a little time to adapt, then go back to the same exact spot under as close of conditions as possible and get another log on the new map. Then, we could toss them in VD and see what it looks like, because its just another way to estimate the delta from the tune change (similar to acceleration time, just inferring from logs), short of having actual back to back dyno runs. But again, its the delta that matters (and the curve, of course), not the peak hq/tq numbers, along with how clean the log is.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Agreed on this, and all the VD talk is taking this thread sideways. Altho, EstorilMSport kudos on a stout build all the way back to 2018-19!

To get us back on track, bolt an aftermarket HPFP onto an FBO stock turbo EWG N55, flash this map, and you’re at ~425whp. Add a PS2 after that, and you’re 500+ whp.

Well I'm assuming my car has 420whp using a stock fuel pump... which equate in savings of $3000.... only other way to tell is either same dyno he used or 1/4mile or 60-100km at this point... fight it all you want... I'm sticking with it.. lol...

Okay enough.. thanks again for putting up with this...

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I agree. I made the VD thread specifcally to discuss VD results, and i keep saying over and over putting other people's logs in VD is completely meaningless. You don't compare cars in VD, there are way too many variables its literally impossible to make a apples to apples comparison.

.

I totally agree with you and should of put a disclaimer this is for entertainment purposes only...lol...

Now if we can only get the logs that would really tell it all...

[ZM2]

FastF30 just go put it on a Dynojet and start a different thread about how your dyno and VD numbers match or don’t match.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

FastF30 just go put it on a Dynojet and start a different thread about how your dyno and VD numbers match or don’t match.

good point place not to far... single roller... I'll wait for the best possible day and we'll see if I can at least break 350whp...lol... thanks for the fun...

[designatedposter]

i decided to ignore the need for upgraded HPFP and ran this on a stock HPFP
tune: stage 2+ race gas (not the e30 tune)

note: i do not recommend this, however, it was worth testing, so here we go:

my setup:
-m235i n55 ewg
-high flow cat
-upgraded intercooler
-ngk plugs @ 1 step cooler, STOCK gap about .031 inch.
-stock fuel system, except:
-WMI at 50/50 (i forget the nozzle size i'm using, but it was adequate when i was previously running the stage 2 race gas tune)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f91...729b52119f16ca

my notes:
-the stock HPFP can hang with the help from the WMI.
-stock turbo can sustain 20psi at least up to 6200 rpm
-this tune has more aggressive timing as compared to stage 2 race gas. about +1.5 degrees.
-my cylinder 1 timing has always lagged behind the rest. possibly an issue with wmi not getting to that cylinder as well as others. my nozzle is installed pretty close to the throttle body as i have a VRSF chargepipe and there is only 1 meth bung. i am considering getting a new chargepipe with 2 bungs for better distribution, or i could simply increase nozzle size.
-i have 2 other logs and one of which i think i experienced misfire, so it might be time to close gap on the spark plugs

all feedback welcome!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i decided to ignore the need for upgraded HPFP and ran this on a stock HPFP
tune: stage 2+ race gas (not the e30 tune)

note: i do not recommend this, however, it was worth testing, so here we go:

my setup:
-m235i n55 ewg
-high flow cat
-upgraded intercooler
-ngk plugs @ 1 step cooler, STOCK gap about .031 inch.
-stock fuel system, except:
-WMI at 50/50 (i forget the nozzle size i'm using, but it was adequate when i was previously running the stage 2 race gas tune)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f91...729b52119f16ca

my notes:
-the stock HPFP can hang with the help from the WMI.
-stock turbo can sustain 20psi at least up to 6200 rpm
-this tune has more aggressive timing as compared to stage 2 race gas. about +1.5 degrees.
-my cylinder 1 timing has always lagged behind the rest. possibly an issue with wmi not getting to that cylinder as well as others. my nozzle is installed pretty close to the throttle body as i have a VRSF chargepipe and there is only 1 meth bung. i am considering getting a new chargepipe with 2 bungs for better distribution, or i could simply increase nozzle size.
-i have 2 other logs and one of which i think i experienced misfire, so it might be time to close gap on the spark plugs

all feedback welcome!

Everyone was waiting for someone to do this test . Your STFT are actually still quite a bit negative and only a slight dip in HPFP pressure at tip in, so i think your WMI is providing plenty of fuel. It might be worth checking your #1 plug since its the easiest to access to see if maybe the gap is off or something. WGDC is pushed high in the upper RPM as expected. Overall, the log looks good though.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Everyone was waiting for someone to do this test . Your STFT are actually still quite a bit negative and only a slight dip in HPFP pressure at tip in, so i think your WMI is providing plenty of fuel. It might be worth checking your #1 plug since its the easiest to access to see if maybe the gap is off or something. WGDC is pushed high in the upper RPM as expected. Overall, the log looks good though.

plug 1 was checked recently and it is identical to plug 2. i had swapped them and results were same. i think i swapped coils in another test and results were same.

coils are at 60k miles. original. i have not heard of slowly degrading performance, so i have not replaced them. i read it's either good or bad. thoughts? plugs are fresh at 5k miles

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Everyone was waiting for someone to do this test .

He's running Meth...

[ctt300]

Hahaha...

Stock HPFP, stock downpipe Stg 2+ E30

8AT

E33 in tank

Sorry for the dirty log, but multiple 3rd gear, partial 4th gear pulls in it.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f92...729b518ea8a79a

Yes drops in HPFP psi, but maintains perfect AFR and runs like a top. Will upgrade HPFP shortly. Black Friday come on!!

Also, going to try to full flash this as the hpfp target is 2800+ and should be 2450 and that should help it not to drop as much.

Have other logs with E28-E30 and less HPFP psi drops, so will try E31 and see how it does. One thing is for sure: This tune loves as much E as you can throw at it.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ctt300

Hahaha...

Stock HPFP, stock downpipe Stg 2+ E30

8AT

E33 in tank

Sorry for the dirty log, but multiple 3rd gear, partial 4th gear pulls in it.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f92...729b518ea8a79a

Yes drops in HPFP psi, but maintains perfect AFR and runs like a top. Will upgrade HPFP shortly. Black Friday come on!!

Also, going to try to full flash this as the hpfp target is 2800+ and should be 2450 and that should help it not to drop as much.

Have other logs with E28-E30 and less HPFP psi drops, so will try E31 and see how it does. One thing is for sure: This tune loves as much E as you can throw at it.

4th gear pulls best for Automatics.... 3rd gear for manuals... this is what is best to put a proper load on the engine to see what is going on with it... start a low as you can at least 3000 and go high as you can without getting in trouble...lol... 6500+rpm... If I can do it in the crazy place I live... you guys can do it..

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

plug 1 was checked recently and it is identical to plug 2. i had swapped them and results were same. i think i swapped coils in another test and results were same.

coils are at 60k miles. original. i have not heard of slowly degrading performance, so i have not replaced them. i read it's either good or bad. thoughts? plugs are fresh at 5k miles

If you tried swapping plugs and coils, not sure. Could be a cyl 1 internal issue, but seems unlikely. Could just be meth distribution as you mentioned, but i wouldn't necessarily crank up meth spray more since your fuel trims are already about -20%.

Originally Posted by FastF30

He's running Meth...

Yes, I know... this is exactly what people were asking for - trying to race gas 2+ map with WMI+pump gas and no upgraded HPFP. I would say that's more common/likely scenario than people running HPFP+race gas with no WMI, at least on the street.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yes, I know... this is exactly what people were asking for - trying to race gas 2+ map with WMI+pump gas and no upgraded HPFP. I would say that's more common/likely scenario than people running HPFP+race gas with no WMI, at least on the street.

I'm not gonna mention VD but I cleaned up some logs and he's coming in what a typical meth should add in power.. 50whp+/-

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ctt300

Hahaha...

Stock HPFP, stock downpipe Stg 2+ E30

8AT

E33 in tank

Sorry for the dirty log, but multiple 3rd gear, partial 4th gear pulls in it.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f92...729b518ea8a79a

Yes drops in HPFP psi, but maintains perfect AFR and runs like a top. Will upgrade HPFP shortly. Black Friday come on!!

Also, going to try to full flash this as the hpfp target is 2800+ and should be 2450 and that should help it not to drop as much.

Have other logs with E28-E30 and less HPFP psi drops, so will try E31 and see how it does. One thing is for sure: This tune loves as much E as you can throw at it.

Tried to find some good pulls in there but its way too messy. I would get a couple proper logs before trying to run this. I highly doubt you are going to be able to support 19+ psi with stock HPFP, it usually crashes bad around 17.5 psi with e30. If you dial back ethanol, your timing is likely going to suffer. I don't understand your logic at all that lower HPFP target will help it not drop as much... the target is irrelevant to the amount the HPFP can supply; if it can only supply enough fuel to hold xxxx psi pressure, it doesnt matter if the target is 2450 or 2800. Aside from that, you also aren't supposed to run it with stock DP... but carry on if you wish.

[ZM2]

So, how does it feel compared to the regular Stg 2 Race Gas?

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i decided to ignore the need for upgraded HPFP and ran this on a stock HPFP
tune: stage 2+ race gas (not the e30 tune)

note: i do not recommend this, however, it was worth testing, so here we go:

my setup:
-m235i n55 ewg
-high flow cat
-upgraded intercooler
-ngk plugs @ 1 step cooler, STOCK gap about .031 inch.
-stock fuel system, except:
-WMI at 50/50 (i forget the nozzle size i'm using, but it was adequate when i was previously running the stage 2 race gas tune)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f91...729b52119f16ca

my notes:
-the stock HPFP can hang with the help from the WMI.
-stock turbo can sustain 20psi at least up to 6200 rpm
-this tune has more aggressive timing as compared to stage 2 race gas. about +1.5 degrees.
-my cylinder 1 timing has always lagged behind the rest. possibly an issue with wmi not getting to that cylinder as well as others. my nozzle is installed pretty close to the throttle body as i have a VRSF chargepipe and there is only 1 meth bung. i am considering getting a new chargepipe with 2 bungs for better distribution, or i could simply increase nozzle size.
-i have 2 other logs and one of which i think i experienced misfire, so it might be time to close gap on the spark plugs

all feedback welcome!

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Tried to find some good pulls in there but its way too messy. I would get a couple proper logs before trying to run this. I highly doubt you are going to be able to support 19+ psi with stock HPFP, it usually crashes bad around 17.5 psi with e30. If you dial back ethanol, your timing is likely going to suffer. I don't understand your logic at all that lower HPFP target will help it not drop as much... the target is irrelevant to the amount the HPFP can supply; if it can only supply enough fuel to hold xxxx psi pressure, it doesnt matter if the target is 2450 or 2800. Aside from that, you also aren't supposed to run it with stock DP... but carry on if you wish.

Halim tuned the ver 7.1 maps with 2450psi HPFP targets down from 2800+ psi targets, so this strategy must have some merit in preventing crashes. Ver7.0 had the 2800+ target and some were having crashed a la Jared here and then he ran ver 7.1 E30 and had none from his logs.

I know the dangers of doing what I am doing and have been running the Stg 2H E30 map for about 2 years now and the Stg 2 E30 map for 3 years with no HPFP drops of significance, like 200psi. I use Costco 93 + E85 that is at least E80 through testing. I only use these two fuel sources and wouldn't even think of hammering it with any other fuels without extensive logging.

The Costco 93 logged perfect timing on the Stg 2H 93 tune, so that it proof that it is of the highest quality.

I also run top lube in using Penzoil Synthetic Blend TCW3 to add back some of what the E85 takes out and it also is stabilizing.

So this is how I thought that with my strong HPFP and great quality fuel that this 2+ map would do pretty well.

I do have at least 10 other long multi-pull logs on this 2+ map with 4th gear pulls and the HPFP psi drop is less than this log I just provided, as this one is E33 as mentioned.

I'll dig up the other logs when out of work and will probably pull a nice clean 4th gear one too.

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by FastF30

4th gear pulls best for Automatics.... 3rd gear for manuals... this is what is best to put a proper load on the engine to see what is going on with it... start a low as you can at least 3000 and go high as you can without getting in trouble...lol... 6500+rpm... If I can do it in the crazy place I live... you guys can do it..

Yes sir, will have a nice clean 4th gear log served up in a bit for your virtual dyno pleasure!

[ctt300]

Originally Posted by ZM2

So, how does it feel compared to the regular Stg 2 Race Gas?

Stg 2 race gas is the equivalent to the Stg 2 E30 map and I've ran that extensively. This feels about 40% more powerful, as it is about 50+ WHP and has much more torquey deliciousness. I've been running the Stg 2H E30 map and this is about 30% over that from the way it feels and produces about 35 WHP more and maybe 30 ft lbs more torque.

Just a very smooth and very powerful power band. Exceptional tune!!!

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ctt300

Stg 2 race gas is the equivalent to the Stg 2 E30 map and I've ran that extensively. This feels about 40% more powerful, as it is about 50+ WHP and has much more torquey deliciousness. I've been running the Stg 2H E30 map and this is about 30% over that from the way it feels and produces about 35 WHP more and maybe 30 ft lbs more torque.

Just a very smooth and very powerful power band. Exceptional tune!!!

I see your in the magical land of Florida (best times come from there)... remember if your automatic... sport+, shifter to the left for manual and DSC off (hold button until off)... it should not kick down a gear when you floor it.. also colder and lower the humidity the better...

[n55david]

so do the m235 and m2 n55 variants have the same manifold setup?

I'm noticing that the 235s and the m2s are able to maintain boost higher. no way I'm hitting anything near 20 at even 6k unless its a freak random occurrence.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

so do the m235 and m2 n55 variants have the same manifold setup?

I'm noticing that the 235s and the m2s are able to maintain boost higher. no way I'm hitting anything near 20 at even 6k unless its a freak random occurrence.

I asked the same thing earlier, and there was an article posted above (I believe in this thread) and stated the M2 at least had a different manifold. Not sure if it would apply to M235i. The article was also technically not from BMW, but it seemed legit. I don't think there's any 'official' documentation on the manifold. But based on the M235i log above, he's holding 20psi at ~6300rpm.

We need logs from F3x N55 on either the 2+ E30 or race gas maps.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I asked the same thing earlier, and there was an article posted above (I believe in this thread) and stated the M2 at least had a different manifold. Not sure if it would apply to M235i. The article was also technically not from BMW, but it seemed legit. I don't think there's any 'official' documentation on the manifold. But based on the M235i log above, he's holding 20psi at ~6300rpm.

We need logs from F3x N55 on either the 2+ E30 or race gas maps.

I have 93 octane and redline fuel system cleaner in my tank right now otherwise I'd log it. I have e70 in the car for way too long. maybe I can give it a try this weekend? I can't see how it'll be any different than my cary Jordan tune though.