LEDs vs Xenons (picture analysis)

stormlv · 09-01-2014, 02:17 PM

So I've watched many threads passing by, with people asking whether or not the LEDs are worth it over Xenons.
Those threads always derailed with arguments that one is better than the other, but none backed up their claims.

Anyway, my car was in the shop (following an accident - then again following dealer fuckery) and I got it back today.
In the mean time I was given a 320xi with Xenons.

Here are some picture comparisons between the loaner's Xenons and my LEDs (both adaptive lights)

First of all:
- pictures were taken at the same distance, with the same camera and lens (Sony A7 with the Zeiss 55mm F/1.8)
- all picture had the exact same exposure : 1/5 seconds
- all picture had the exact same F stop : F/5.6
- all picture had the exact same ISO : 100
- the only processing that I did was to convert Sony ARW to 16bit tiff
- for the numerical analysis I converted all the pictures to B&W
- garage in front was @ around 5-7m
- I can provide the RAW files from my camera if anyone's interested. If not I got the jpegs on flickr

Xenon Low beams vs LED Low beams

In this comparison I noticed that the LEDs are brighter. One can see this in the amount of light that falls on the door itself and the floor.
I've did some very simple numerical analysis on these photos (converted in B&W). These are 16bit photos, so max numerical values go to 65535.

Xenon: pixel average* for whole photo: 5578
LED: pixel average for whole photo: 7162
*by pixel average I mean, the average value of all the pixels in the image.

Xenon: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 1978
LED: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 1857
* dark part = top region, not illuminated by the headlights. Basically used to measure ambient light in the garage.

Xenon: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 11542
LED: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 15958
*lit part = bottom region, illuminated by the headlights. Gives a measure of the strength of the low beams

By these numbers alone: LEDs low beam gives 38% more light

Xenon High beams vs LED High beams

Here, the first thing you'll notice is that the illuminating pattern is different.
I don't know how that would translate in real life visibility though. I wasn't inspired, at the time, to take photos of targets illuminated at 100-200m ahead...

If we get to the business of power output, here again I say that the LEDs win out.
You can definitely see the two beam centers which just "light" up with the LEDs.

And here are some numbers to back up the claims:

Xenon: pixel average for whole photo: 12981
LED: pixel average for whole photo: 15312

Xenon: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 2197
LED: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 2094
* dark part = top region, not illuminated by the headlights. Basically used to measure ambient light in the garage.

Xenon: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 19714
LED: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 25822
*lit part = bottom region, illuminated by the headlights. Gives a measure of the strength of the high beams

By these numbers alone: LEDs high beam gives 30%** more light. Here, I included the dark middle region of the Xenons, so that number is probably closer to 20%.

Here's my Flickr account for the full size photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stormlv/

DrivenByE30 · 09-01-2014, 02:43 PM

Great work and analysis!

So you were able to confirm th manufacture claim of brighter and more light for less power consumption (and assuming better reliability)

If i had extra doh, yes i would go for the LED, otherwise xenon is good enought for m for now, much better than halogen at least...

DS_BMW · 09-01-2014, 02:49 PM

I have had multiple cars with HID headlights. The LED lights on my 4 series are much better. Especially on high beams. It's a big difference.

DJ Rocc · 09-01-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormlv

So I've watched many threads passing by, with people asking whether or not the LEDs are worth it over Xenons.
Those threads always derailed with arguments that one is better than the other, but none backed up their claims.

Anyway, my car was in the shop (following an accident - then again following dealer fuckery) and I got it back today.
In the mean time I was given a 320xi with Xenons.

Here are some picture comparisons between the loaner's Xenons and my LEDs (both adaptive lights)

First of all:
- pictures were taken at the same distance, with the same camera and lens (Sony A7 with the Zeiss 55mm F/1.8)
- all picture had the exact same exposure : 1/5 seconds
- all picture had the exact same F stop : F/5.6
- all picture had the exact same ISO : 100
- the only processing that I did was to convert Sony ARW to 16bit tiff
- for the numerical analysis I converted all the pictures to B&W
- garage in front was @ around 5-7m
- I can provide the RAW files from my camera if anyone's interested. If not I got the jpegs on flickr

Xenon Low beams vs LED Low beams

In this comparison I noticed that the LEDs are brighter. One can see this in the amount of light that falls on the door itself and the floor.
I've did some very simple numerical analysis on these photos (converted in B&W). These are 16bit photos, so max numerical values go to 65535.

Xenon: pixel average* for whole photo: 5578
LED: pixel average for whole photo: 7162
*by pixel average I mean, the average value of all the pixels in the image.

Xenon: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 1978
LED: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 1857
* dark part = top region, not illuminated by the headlights. Basically used to measure ambient light in the garage.

Xenon: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 11542
LED: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 15958
*lit part = bottom region, illuminated by the headlights. Gives a measure of the strength of the low beams

By these numbers alone: LEDs low beam gives 38% more light

Xenon High beams vs LED High beams

Here, the first thing you'll notice is that the illuminating pattern is different.
I don't know how that would translate in real life visibility though. I wasn't inspired, at the time, to take photos of targets illuminated at 100-200m ahead...

If we get to the business of power output, here again I say that the LEDs win out.
You can definitely see the two beam centers which just "light" up with the LEDs.

And here are some numbers to back up the claims:

Xenon: pixel average for whole photo: 12981
LED: pixel average for whole photo: 15312

Xenon: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 2197
LED: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 2094
* dark part = top region, not illuminated by the headlights. Basically used to measure ambient light in the garage.

Xenon: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 19714
LED: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 25822
*lit part = bottom region, illuminated by the headlights. Gives a measure of the strength of the high beams

By these numbers alone: LEDs high beam gives 30%** more light. Here, I included the dark middle region of the Xenons, so that number is probably closer to 20%.

Here's my Flickr account for the full size photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stormlv/

Definitely know that LED's are a bit brighter than the Xenons, what about ultimate distance, does the brightness of the LED's drop off more quickly than the Xenons, this is what I have heard.

Fabulous info by the way!

300hp · 09-01-2014, 03:12 PM

I am yet to come across a claim BMW made that did not turn out to be true or understated

FC4 · 09-01-2014, 03:21 PM

Cool.

Still not worth $1900.

tturedraider · 09-01-2014, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC4

Cool.

Still not worth $1900.

Yeppers, I have to agree. Still nice to see some good empirical evidence for the LEDs.

Falafel Combo · 09-01-2014, 06:51 PM

Depends on your priorities I guess. I would gladly pay twice that amount for the LED, both for safety and esthetic reasons.

Babo335 · 09-01-2014, 07:05 PM

IOP, 30% more light is not worth the $1900 price tag.

DS_BMW · 09-01-2014, 07:24 PM

Plus with led you can get anti glare coded, also the angel eyes are 3D looking. Looks better IMO!

ji99lypuff · 09-01-2014, 07:45 PM

wow i wonder why the highbeams for the xenon have that huge gap missing in the middle. It makes no sense that the middle has a dark spot like that. The LEDS look great and ill be sure to option that on my next bmw.

Cyberdemon · 09-01-2014, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ji99lypuff

wow i wonder why the highbeams for the xenon have that huge gap missing in the middle. It makes no sense that the middle has a dark spot like that. The LEDS look great and ill be sure to option that on my next bmw.

Light is emitted from 2 point sources. Those will angle outwards until they converge, lighting the center.

In this case, the angle of the LED lights is greater, which means they converge in a short enough distance to light his garage door.

The Xenons have a smaller angle, which means they do not converge. I have to assume if the car backed up 5-10 feet that spot would disappear.

Likewise if you pulled the LED car closer to the door, you would also get a spot in the middle.

#science

Halsifer · 09-01-2014, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Plus with led you can get anti glare coded, also the angel eyes are 3D looking. Looks better IMO!

You can get the anti glare high beams coded with the xenons as well.. Both have same exact functionality, just one is brighter..

MCL_F32 · 09-01-2014, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC4

Cool.

Still not worth $1900.

+1 Great info and comparison shots.

Dr.HiTcH · 09-01-2014, 09:27 PM

Great comparison.. that just answered a lot of my questions ,,
thankz a lot

BMWrules7 · 09-01-2014, 09:36 PM

Excellent work. I have LED.

They are stunning even in drl.

I noticed that my old xenons had less brightness but more yellow.

I found I could see better with the yellow even at reduced output.

Even so, LED are worth it.

GOLFFRR · 09-02-2014, 06:34 AM

fantastic post OP. I recently opted for the LED's on my M4 and am very impressed. I personally don't think I will ever go back to anything else. The beam is so much sharper and you can see a lot better IMO.

I drive into work very very early and I live out in a ranch community so its very dark and these lights are amazing, also very good in fog believe it or not.

anyone who is on the fence with picking the LED options I would highly recommend you do!

chylld · 09-02-2014, 07:07 AM

I paid $3.5k for LED headlights (Australia tax) and think it was money well spent. Beyond the better brightness, the LEDs light up all of the road markings amazingly well at night, especially in crappy weather. It's so much less fatiguing to drive at night now and that's something that can't be measured in numbers

I've seen the highbeam a few times (mainly when testing the adaptive system) and it's stupidly bright, especially when it hits a big sign - oww my eyes

alienranch · 09-02-2014, 07:41 AM

Excellent comparison. Thanks for the info.

Tony M · 09-02-2014, 08:10 AM

I just wish I'd seen this comparison a few months ago before I ordered my car. At the time there was no credible info to indicate the LED's actually put out more light than the Xenons, which seem less bright than I expected. Most comments seemed to be about the appearance of the lights when looking AT the car, which doesn't mean a lot to me and even BMW didn't seem to be claiming increased light output. Information showing the LED's actual performance relative to the other options would've been great. Too much to expect, BMW?

So I passed on the LED's, which I should've ordered. One for the next car, I expect.

stormlv · 09-02-2014, 08:20 AM

Thanks all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Rocc

Definitely know that LED's are a bit brighter than the Xenons, what about ultimate distance, does the brightness of the LED's drop off more quickly than the Xenons, this is what I have heard.
Fabulous info by the way!

The brightness of a light source follows the inverse square law, which means that when you double the distance to the source, the light intensity decreases by a factor of 4.
This is true for both the LEDs and Xenons, which means that a source 40% brighter than another one at 10m will be 40% brighter at 100m as well (even though the brightness of both has decreased substantially at 100m)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC4

Cool.
Still not worth $1900.

Don't get it then

Quote:

Originally Posted by ji99lypuff

wow i wonder why the highbeams for the xenon have that huge gap missing in the middle. It makes no sense that the middle has a dark spot like that. The LEDS look great and ill be sure to option that on my next bmw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Light is emitted from 2 point sources. Those will angle outwards until they converge, lighting the center.
In this case, the angle of the LED lights is greater, which means they converge in a short enough distance to light his garage door.
The Xenons have a smaller angle, which means they do not converge. I have to assume if the car backed up 5-10 feet that spot would disappear.
Likewise if you pulled the LED car closer to the door, you would also get a spot in the middle.

+1 4 #science

Webic · 09-02-2014, 09:07 AM

Good work OP. If you could keep the cars longer I'd almost be willing to send you my LUX meter to measure light output. However your image analysis and comparisons are good. Thanks. Someone should sticky this.

09-01-2014, 02:17 PM	#1
stormlv Human 932 Rep 1,200 Posts Drives: Yes Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Geneva iTrader: (1)	LEDs vs Xenons (picture analysis) So I've watched many threads passing by, with people asking whether or not the LEDs are worth it over Xenons. Those threads always derailed with arguments that one is better than the other, but none backed up their claims. Anyway, my car was in the shop (following an accident - then again following dealer fuckery) and I got it back today. In the mean time I was given a 320xi with Xenons. Here are some picture comparisons between the loaner's Xenons and my LEDs (both adaptive lights) First of all: - pictures were taken at the same distance, with the same camera and lens (Sony A7 with the Zeiss 55mm F/1.8) - all picture had the exact same exposure : 1/5 seconds - all picture had the exact same F stop : F/5.6 - all picture had the exact same ISO : 100 - the only processing that I did was to convert Sony ARW to 16bit tiff - for the numerical analysis I converted all the pictures to B&W - garage in front was @ around 5-7m - I can provide the RAW files from my camera if anyone's interested. If not I got the jpegs on flickr Xenon Low beams vs LED Low beams In this comparison I noticed that the LEDs are brighter. One can see this in the amount of light that falls on the door itself and the floor. I've did some very simple numerical analysis on these photos (converted in B&W). These are 16bit photos, so max numerical values go to 65535. Xenon: pixel average* for whole photo: 5578 LED: pixel average for whole photo: 7162 by pixel average I mean, the average value of all the pixels in the image. Xenon: pixel average for the dark part of photo: 1978 LED: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 1857 * dark part = top region, not illuminated by the headlights. Basically used to measure ambient light in the garage. Xenon: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 11542 LED: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 15958 lit part = bottom region, illuminated by the headlights. Gives a measure of the strength of the low beams By these numbers alone: LEDs low beam gives 38% more light Xenon High beams vs LED High beams Here, the first thing you'll notice is that the illuminating pattern is different. I don't know how that would translate in real life visibility though. I wasn't inspired, at the time, to take photos of targets illuminated at 100-200m ahead... If we get to the business of power output, here again I say that the LEDs win out. You can definitely see the two beam centers which just "light" up with the LEDs. And here are some numbers to back up the claims: Xenon: pixel average for whole photo: 12981* LED: pixel average for whole photo: 15312 Xenon: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 2197 LED: pixel average for the dark* part of photo: 2094 * dark part = top region, not illuminated by the headlights. Basically used to measure ambient light in the garage. Xenon: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 19714 LED: pixel average for the lit* part of photo: 25822 lit part = bottom region, illuminated by the headlights. Gives a measure of the strength of the high beams By these numbers alone: LEDs high beam gives 30%* more light. Here, I included the dark middle region of the Xenons, so that number is probably closer to 20%. Here's my Flickr account for the full size photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stormlv/ __________________ 2023 BMW M4 CP xDr \| 510HP / 650Nm \| Isle of Man Green \| Photo album Sold 2018 BMW M4 DCT / ZCP\| 450HP / 550Nm \| Sakhir Orange \| Photo album \| Tribute Sold 2014 BMW 435xd \| 360HP / 710Nm \| Estoril Blue \| Photo album 2010 BMW Z4 sDrive35i DKG \| 306 HP / 400Nm \| Space Gray \| Photo album Last edited by stormlv; 09-01-2014 at 02:51 PM..
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09-01-2014, 02:43 PM	#2
DrivenByE30 Brigadier General 592 Rep 3,870 Posts Drives: '12 F30 Lux 335i 6MT Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: OC - SoCal iTrader: (0)	Great work and analysis! So you were able to confirm th manufacture claim of brighter and more light for less power consumption (and assuming better reliability) If i had extra doh, yes i would go for the LED, otherwise xenon is good enought for m for now, much better than halogen at least...
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09-01-2014, 02:49 PM	#3
DS_BMW Lieutenant Colonel 1603 Rep 1,765 Posts Drives: 2022 M4 comp, 22 M240 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Lancaster PA iTrader: (1)	I have had multiple cars with HID headlights. The LED lights on my 4 series are much better. Especially on high beams. It's a big difference.
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09-01-2014, 03:12 PM	#5
300hp Brigadier General 317 Rep 3,619 Posts Drives: X5 & 335xi Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I am yet to come across a claim BMW made that did not turn out to be true or understated __________________ EBII 2014 335i xDrive 335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
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09-01-2014, 03:21 PM	#6
FC4 Brigadier General 2680 Rep 3,406 Posts Drives: Yes Join Date: May 2014 Location: US iTrader: (0)	Cool. Still not worth $1900.
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09-01-2014, 06:51 PM	#8
Falafel Combo Banned 3773 Rep 6,673 Posts Drives: X5 xDrive50i Join Date: May 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (3)	Depends on your priorities I guess. I would gladly pay twice that amount for the LED, both for safety and esthetic reasons.
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09-01-2014, 07:05 PM	#9
Babo335 Officer 7 Rep 95 Posts Drives: 2014 335 Xdrive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	IOP, 30% more light is not worth the $1900 price tag.
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09-01-2014, 07:24 PM	#10
DS_BMW Lieutenant Colonel 1603 Rep 1,765 Posts Drives: 2022 M4 comp, 22 M240 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Lancaster PA iTrader: (1)	Plus with led you can get anti glare coded, also the angel eyes are 3D looking. Looks better IMO!
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09-01-2014, 07:45 PM	#11
ji99lypuff Lieutenant 100 Rep 443 Posts Drives: 2014 bmw 328xi Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	wow i wonder why the highbeams for the xenon have that huge gap missing in the middle. It makes no sense that the middle has a dark spot like that. The LEDS look great and ill be sure to option that on my next bmw.
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09-01-2014, 09:27 PM	#15
Dr.HiTcH Private First Class 17 Rep 123 Posts Drives: BMW f30 335i sport Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Middle East iTrader: (0)	Great comparison.. that just answered a lot of my questions ,, thankz a lot
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09-01-2014, 09:36 PM	#16
BMWrules7 Lieutenant Colonel 349 Rep 1,684 Posts Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Boston Area iTrader: (0)	Excellent work. I have LED. They are stunning even in drl. I noticed that my old xenons had less brightness but more yellow. I found I could see better with the yellow even at reduced output. Even so, LED are worth it.
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09-02-2014, 06:34 AM	#17
GOLFFRR 10816 Rep 27,599 Posts Drives: GOLFFRR cart Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states iTrader: (4)	fantastic post OP. I recently opted for the LED's on my M4 and am very impressed. I personally don't think I will ever go back to anything else. The beam is so much sharper and you can see a lot better IMO. I drive into work very very early and I live out in a ranch community so its very dark and these lights are amazing, also very good in fog believe it or not. anyone who is on the fence with picking the LED options I would highly recommend you do! __________________ BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL OUR GUY KOTE FIRST! Kote M Sales:Kotem@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-368-9101 vipfinance@bmwofcamarillo.com for warranties!
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09-02-2014, 07:07 AM	#18
chylld Major 54 Rep 1,025 Posts Drives: G08 iX3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 Lotus Evora 400 [10.00] 2014 BMW 428i Gran ... [9.00]	I paid $3.5k for LED headlights (Australia tax) and think it was money well spent. Beyond the better brightness, the LEDs light up all of the road markings amazingly well at night, especially in crappy weather. It's so much less fatiguing to drive at night now and that's something that can't be measured in numbers I've seen the highbeam a few times (mainly when testing the adaptive system) and it's stupidly bright, especially when it hits a big sign - oww my eyes
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09-02-2014, 07:41 AM	#19
alienranch First Lieutenant 19 Rep 312 Posts Drives: 2012 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2012 Location: Dallas iTrader: (0)	Excellent comparison. Thanks for the info.
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09-02-2014, 08:10 AM	#20
Tony M Enlisted Member 5 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 428i Coupe Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	I just wish I'd seen this comparison a few months ago before I ordered my car. At the time there was no credible info to indicate the LED's actually put out more light than the Xenons, which seem less bright than I expected. Most comments seemed to be about the appearance of the lights when looking AT the car, which doesn't mean a lot to me and even BMW didn't seem to be claiming increased light output. Information showing the LED's actual performance relative to the other options would've been great. Too much to expect, BMW? So I passed on the LED's, which I should've ordered. One for the next car, I expect.
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09-02-2014, 09:07 AM	#22
Webic Enlisted Member 0 Rep 47 Posts Drives: 2015 435i Gran Coupe Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Kansas iTrader: (0)	Good work OP. If you could keep the cars longer I'd almost be willing to send you my LUX meter to measure light output. However your image analysis and comparisons are good. Thanks. Someone should sticky this.
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