[EvilDrPorkChop]

How long is it before Police/Speed Camera vans can start enforcing a new Speed Limit?

Was having the discussion with the other half, there's been a speed limit change on a road near us from 50 to 40. We both thought there was a like a grace period before the new limit could be enforced?

If you didn't use the road on a regular basis you'd probably hardly notice the change, no 'New Speed Limit' signs have gone up.

Maybe a question for TouringPleb

[NISFAN]

Yes it's 65 years. Well that's what I say whenever I'm on the M1

[robbiep]

There is no grace period.
Breaking the limit on the day it comes into legal force is an offence.

Some police forces or councils might not enforce it immediately, they might put up cameras to log the speed and put it up on a sign to educate and remind people, but that's not required

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

How long is it before Police/Speed Camera vans can start enforcing a new Speed Limit?

Was having the discussion with the other half, there's been a speed limit change on a road near us from 50 to 40. We both thought there was a like a grace period before the new limit could be enforced?

If you didn't use the road on a regular basis you'd probably hardly notice the change, no 'New Speed Limit' signs have gone up.

Maybe a question for TouringPleb

I'd say if the signs are up then it's enforceable.

Surely part of driving 'with due care and attention' is noticing when speed limit signs change?

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I'd say if the signs are up then it's enforceable.

Surely part of driving 'with due care and attention' is noticing when speed limit signs change?

Yes agree, I wasn't disputing that. I of course noticed the change straight away

My other half noticed the signs one way, but at the other end she was saying there wasn't any. When I went they've been placed right on tricky junction, I can see how they could be easily missed.

Just we both thought there'd be a period where they'd have to allow road users to notice the change, it's an unlit country road with the signs at one end in a place that you may not notice.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Yes agree, I wasn't disputing that. I of course noticed the change straight away

My other half noticed the signs one way, but at the other end she was saying there wasn't any. When I went they've been placed right on tricky junction, I can see how they could be easily missed.

Just we both thought there'd be a period where they'd have to allow road users to notice the change, it's an unlit country road with the signs at one end in a place that you may not notice.

It's not my area of expertise, but I guess it's the same as when speed restrictions come into force for road works. Whatever speed is displayed on signage becomes the limit.

[Witney]

I recall there was about a month or so before they reduced the cameras on Princess Parkway on the way into Manchester when they reduced it from 40mph to 30mph with lots of signage.

But that is a main route into Manchester and I think it was a very sensible approach.

[NISFAN]

Slightly different question.....distance from sign before the new speed is enforceable.

I remember reading somewhere that there was a practical distance past the sign that the new speed wouldn't be enforced. A slowing transition if you like. This seems to be 'a thing' as in the next village from me the authorities installed average speed cameras, they later had to reposition one as the start was almost exactly on the speed transition line. About 5m from the speed sign and would definitely fall foul of allowing a steady deceleration.

Now with that level of practicality and fairness in mind, on my way home one fine evening I witnessed gantry cameras going beserk on the oncoming side, continuously flashing cars almost non stop (M1 HADECS3). When I looked back at why, the variable had just gone from unrestricted to 50, catching out tens of drivers in that short transition. No danger in the road, other than the moronic artificial braking zone now imposed. Totally unfair if tickets were dished out to that group of drivers IMO.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Slightly different question.....distance from sign before the new speed is enforceable.

I remember reading somewhere that there was a practical distance past the sign that the new speed wouldn't be enforced. A slowing transition if you like. This seems to be 'a thing' as in the next village from me the authorities installed average speed cameras, they later had to reposition one as the start was almost exactly on the speed transition line. About 5m from the speed sign and would definitely fall foul of allowing a steady deceleration.

Now with that level of practicality and fairness in mind, on my way home one fine evening I witnessed gantry cameras going beserk on the oncoming side, continuously flashing cars almost non stop (M1 HADECS3). When I looked back at why, the variable had just gone from unrestricted to 50, catching out tens of drivers in that short transition. No danger in the road, other than the moronic artificial braking zone now imposed. Totally unfair if tickets were dished out to that group of drivers IMO.

Technically, in law, if you're 0.1 mph over the limit an inch past the line, that's enough to be done for it.

The only 'allowance' in as regards to speeding was the (very) old ACPO guidance that there should be a 10% + 2mph allowance before enforcement took place. But that was 'guidance' to officers only. Officers were only told that their actions should be 'fair, consistent, and proportionate'.

[Rosco430D]

A few years ago, a local bypass road up here near Glasgow had the limit reduced from 40 to 30. Cops were out with the gun on the changeover day. I know of a few people caught out by this.

The traffic cops up here are brutal, no mercy.

Another occasion, they done a friend of mine for 33 in a 30 at 1am on our way back from a cinema trip. The place was dead, and they claimed to be able to capture his speed from within the vehicle.

[Kal101]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Slightly different question.....distance from sign before the new speed is enforceable.

I remember reading somewhere that there was a practical distance past the sign that the new speed wouldn't be enforced. A slowing transition if you like. This seems to be 'a thing' as in the next village from me the authorities installed average speed cameras, they later had to reposition one as the start was almost exactly on the speed transition line. About 5m from the speed sign and would definitely fall foul of allowing a steady deceleration.

Now with that level of practicality and fairness in mind, on my way home one fine evening I witnessed gantry cameras going beserk on the oncoming side, continuously flashing cars almost non stop (M1 HADECS3). When I looked back at why, the variable had just gone from unrestricted to 50, catching out tens of drivers in that short transition. No danger in the road, other than the moronic artificial braking zone now imposed. Totally unfair if tickets were dished out to that group of drivers IMO.

Unfair but a decent enough cash earner.

I’ve seen it happen several times when I’m heading home on the M5 - cameras on the opposite carriageway firing off thanks to a temporary speed reduction. Never seen a reason for the reductions yet.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by robbiep

The only 'allowance' in as regards to speeding was the (very) old ACPO guidance that there should be a 10% + 2mph allowance before enforcement took place. But that was 'guidance' to officers only. Officers were only told that their actions should be 'fair, consistent, and proportionate'.

Most police forces in England still work to the tolerance allowed under the ACPO guidelines though. And in actual fact, one of our policeman friends on this forum has previously stated that in the (unlikely) event you receive a Notice of Intended Prosecution that falls within the guideline tolerance it won't be pursued if you challenge it...

Originally Posted by Hugo330D

A few years ago, a local bypass road up here near Glasgow had the limit reduced from 40 to 30. Cops were out with the gun on the changeover day. I know of a few people caught out by this.

The traffic cops up here are brutal, no mercy.

Another occasion, they done a friend of mine for 33 in a 30 at 1am on our way back from a cinema trip. The place was dead, and they claimed to be able to capture his speed from within the vehicle.

I do get the impression Scotland have something closer to a zero tolerance policy towards speeding; if someone South of the Border claimed to have been done for doing 33 in a 30 I'd be thinking Jackanory but perhaps not where you are!

[t5pilot]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Most police forces in England still work to the tolerance allowed under the ACPO guidelines though. And in actual fact, one of our policeman friends on this forum has previously stated that in the (unlikely) event you receive a Notice of Intended Prosecution that falls within the guideline tolerance it won't be pursued if you challenge it...

I do get the impression Scotland have something closer to a zero tolerance policy towards speeding; if someone South of the Border claimed to have been done for doing 33 in a 30 I'd be thinking Jackanory but perhaps not where you are!

Yep, that was me.
And just to confirm, there's no grace period with any lawfully displayed road sign which gives an order. Ie red circle border.
What may be interesting is that it's mentioned that there's no street lighting? In which case if the limit is anything other than the national speed limit, then there has to be repeaters after the main change in limit sign.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by t5pilot

Yep, that was me.
And just to confirm, there's no grace period with any lawfully displayed road sign which gives an order. Ie red circle border.
What may be interesting is that it's mentioned that there's no street lighting? In which case if the limit is anything other than the national speed limit, then there has to be repeaters after the main change in limit sign.

so whilst you are here - what is the statutory limit for the distance between mandatory speed limit signs? Some of the overhead gantry signs on motorways are a long way apart, I could have forgotten the limit / thought it had reverted to NSL between some of them!

[BBri89]

Good practice might suggest a highly visible NEW SPEED LIMIT IN FORCE sign.
It's not required though.

The law is the law, and even 1mph over the limit is an offence. People (in the UK) seem to think it's "10% + 2mph", but that has no weighting at all, it was only a suggestion from the ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) that they might not seek prosecution for lesser breaches below that level. Individual forces can choose to prosecute any offence.

[t5pilot]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

so whilst you are here - what is the statutory limit for the distance between mandatory speed limit signs? Some of the overhead gantry signs on motorways are a long way apart, I could have forgotten the limit / thought it had reverted to NSL between some of them!

I don't know tbh. It will be publicly available though.
By the same token, certainly as far as VSL's are concerned & gantry signs, you can be 99.999% certain they will meet legislative requirements, simply due to the cost involved with them.
Edit...
It's always worth remembering that the last sign you pass is the one you obey, until signed otherwise.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by BBri89

The law is the law, and even 1mph over the limit is an offence. People (in the UK) seem to think it's "10% + 2mph", but that has no weighting at all, it was only a suggestion from the ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) that they might not seek prosecution for lesser breaches below that level. Individual forces can choose to prosecute any offence.

Technically you're right and yes, the old ACPO guidelines were just that - a guide. However, most police forces in England still work to them so, as it stands at the moment, you're not going to get a NIP for doing 1mph over the limit (and, as t5pilot has pointed out, in the highly unlikely event you do it will not be pursued if challenged). Might be different up in Scotland though...

And of course things could well change in England and in time we might end-up with a zero tolerance approach to speed limit enforcement - we're not there yet though.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

so whilst you are here - what is the statutory limit for the distance between mandatory speed limit signs? Some of the overhead gantry signs on motorways are a long way apart, I could have forgotten the limit / thought it had reverted to NSL between some of them!

The maximum distance between repeaters is 200 yards.

[Ronstein]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Slightly different question.....distance from sign before the new speed is enforceable.

I remember reading somewhere that there was a practical distance past the sign that the new speed wouldn't be enforced. A slowing transition if you like. This seems to be 'a thing' as in the next village from me the authorities installed average speed cameras, they later had to reposition one as the start was almost exactly on the speed transition line. About 5m from the speed sign and would definitely fall foul of allowing a steady deceleration.

Now with that level of practicality and fairness in mind, on my way home one fine evening I witnessed gantry cameras going beserk on the oncoming side, continuously flashing cars almost non stop (M1 HADECS3). When I looked back at why, the variable had just gone from unrestricted to 50, catching out tens of drivers in that short transition. No danger in the road, other than the moronic artificial braking zone now imposed. Totally unfair if tickets were dished out to that group of drivers IMO.

Very familiar to M25 users. It's not uncommon to pass the clockwise Heathrow T5 junction with NSL signs on the gantry but immediately round the corner hit a 50 limit (funnily enough, there's a camera on that gantry) and then back to NSL or 60 on the next one. Making money?, course not

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Technically you're right

Technically correct is the best kind of correct

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by t5pilot

I don't know tbh. It will be publicly available though.
By the same token, certainly as far as VSL's are concerned & gantry signs, you can be 99.999% certain they will meet legislative requirements, simply due to the cost involved with them.
Edit...
It's always worth remembering that the last sign you pass is the one you obey, until signed otherwise.

Cheers. And to the person who posted 200 metres / yards for repeaters.... Sometimes on the M1 it feels like I do half a mile between VSL signs which seems a bit infrequent..given how often the 60 signs are placed in the roadworks section. Consistency would be great as frankly if I haven't seen a sign for a while I revert to the normal limit, only to have to slow down for the next one!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

Technically correct is the best kind of correct

Very true but personally I'm more interested in what actually happens in practice rather than technically what could happen!

Each to their own, though, if there are people who genuinely believe we have a zero tolerance approach to speed limit enforcement in England that's fair enough, they're entitled to their opinion....