[vader1]

Originally Posted by wmandra

Positive. I have a 2014 and my build date is 3/15/2013 and my ED was in April.

This on your Z4 or do you have a 3 series too? I must be crazy but I could have sworn the regular 3 series did not start until June/July after summer shutdown. I tried to google old thread and they say the same thing,(June/July) but I guess not. I am old and the brain goes first.

[wmandra]

Originally Posted by vader1

This on your Z4 or do you have a 3 series too? I must be crazy but I could have sworn the regular 3 series did not start until June/July after summer shutdown. I tried to google old thread and they say the same thing,(June/July) but I guess not. I am old and the brain goes first.

On my Z4, don't know about the 3-series production dates.

[MickAv8r]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Seems an entirely reasonable position for BMW to take.

Not at all. they have to prove that the tune caused the damage. engines don't just throw rods and the basic tunes are still relatively mild.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by MickAv8r

Not at all. they have to prove that the tune caused the damage. engines don't just throw rods and the basic tunes are still relatively mild.

Agreed. Engines blow completely stock, too.

[Nick the Greek]

Don't agree.
It's for the op to prove that the mods didn't damage the engine.
Otherwise it's tough titty and BMW shouldn't pay..
Why should those that don't screw around with the engine subsidise those that do via warranty claims that are false. Especially as the op has admitted he attempted to defraud BMW.

[Steve33]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Don't agree.
It's for the op to prove that the mods didn't damage the engine.
Otherwise it's tough titty and BMW shouldn't pay..
Why should those that don't screw around with the engine subsidise those that do via warranty claims that are false. Especially as the op has admitted he attempted to defraud BMW.

Wrong. The states has an act covering this exact situation where the MANUFACTURER must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the modifications were the direct cause of the problems.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Don't agree.
It's for the op to prove that the mods didn't damage the engine.
Otherwise it's tough titty and BMW shouldn't pay..
Why should those that don't screw around with the engine subsidise those that do via warranty claims that are false. Especially as the op has admitted he attempted to defraud BMW.

You dont have to agree. But the burden on proof is on the Manufacture/Dealer not the customer. Read the US Act instead of assuming, its not the UK.

And how has he admitted to defrauding BMW? He took off the JB4 and took it in. He had no duty to disclose that he had a tune. They then found the software tampered with (which I find very odd considering the data pump wouldnt show mild modifications) and told him. Proving "fraud" is one of the highest burdens of proof that can ever be litigated, which is why it rarely is and always settles. If he fights it, he will have to admit to tuning it in court, and the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove the tuning caused it, which is very unlikely. Any criminal liability (violating CA's CARB) is irrelevant in a civil case like this.

[munch520]

Originally Posted by wmandra

Actually, sorry... the N20 and N26 have the same internals... the different pistons/rods are in the N20/N26 engines in the 320 / 20i variants with the lower power output.

Yep I think that's it

[f30Seth]

I only have the stage 1 and this thread is scaring me a bit.
especially the part where BMW can retrace codes to tell if the tune was installed or not.

is this true?

I hope all goes well with OP

[F30form]

Originally Posted by f30Seth

I only have the stage 1 and this thread is scaring me a bit.
especially the part where BMW can retrace codes to tell if the tune was installed or not.

is this true?

I hope all goes well with OP

In short, yes. Pretty much anything you do to your car can be detected.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by f30Seth

I only have the stage 1 and this thread is scaring me a bit.
especially the part where BMW can retrace codes to tell if the tune was installed or not.

is this true?

I hope all goes well with OP

A piggyback tune only reports the factory boost levels back to the DME so it can't be traced directly, although I also think people should pay for any damages they cause. In this case I don't think its tune related and I hope OP is able to fight with BMW to get his engine covered.

Mike

[N47_Drei]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Any of these systems can be detected by BMW, even if you remove teh units and clear error codes.

Your average BMW dealer tech cannot do it, but when there is a large claim like a entire engine BMW themselves take a data dump from the car and check all parameters.

They will then pick up parameters that have been exceeded by the aftermarket system.

I have seen this done on a couple cars over the years.

Winner Winner chicken dinner. I use to be a Service Advisor for BMW, motors on a 2014 don't just blow up like that. BMW logic here is hell if this motor just "blow" up we could have a major problem with some of the engines built around that time. Also if the car died with the tune on and you just unplugged the before it was towed in of course they will see there was a tune on it.

[bcornwellatl]

Originally Posted by N47_Drei

Winner Winner chicken dinner. I use to be a Service Advisor for BMW, motors on a 2014 don't just blow up like that. BMW logic here is hell if this motor just "blow" up we could have a major problem with some of the engines built around that time. Also if the car died with the tune on and you just unplugged the before it was towed in of course they will see there was a tune on it.

So say this happened, and he unplugged his battery from the car for say 2 days... how long will it take before the ECU's memory dies? Or is everything written and stored permanently? I'd also like to know if he were to try and crank the car (or do anything that the ECU would record) would it overwrite the recorded data from the tune?

[SergioK]

Originally Posted by N47_Drei

Winner Winner chicken dinner. I use to be a Service Advisor for BMW, motors on a 2014 don't just blow up like that. BMW logic here is hell if this motor just "blow" up we could have a major problem with some of the engines built around that time.

A hydro-locked engine, because of a stuck fuel injector in the open position, will cause the engine to drop a piston and explode. It happened with an N20. Who's to say this wasn't the case here?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by SergioK

A hydro-locked engine, because of a stuck fuel injector in the open position, will cause the engine to drop a piston and explode. It happened with an N20. Who's to say this wasn't the case here?

This.

Every manufactured item has a percentage of failed units. Bone stock engines blow. It is the nature of production.

991 GT3s had engine failures fires, 458 Italias-engine fires. These are NEW unmodified cars. New/stock does not = immune to failure.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

This.

Every manufactured item has a percentage of failed units. Bone stock engines blow. It is the nature of production.

991 GT3s had engine failures fires, 458 Italias-engine fires. These are NEW unmodified cars. New/stock does not = immune to failure.

Agreed. It would just suck to be that guy who had modded an engine which would have failed similarly had it been left stock.

[MikeVictor]

I don't understand all this wailing and gnashing of teeth in regard to tunes causing engine problems. If you want peace of mind don't tune your N20 and go buy something with more i's. That way if there's a problem you've got nothing to worry yourself over.

Anyone who wants BMW to take on the risk of you fiddling with your car? Das ist backpfeifengesicht.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by Dabaitu

I don't understand all this wailing and gnashing of teeth in regard to tunes causing engine problems. If you want peace of mind don't tune your N20 and go buy something with more i's. That way if there's a problem you've got nothing to worry yourself over.

Anyone who wants BMW to take on the risk of you fiddling with your car? Das ist backpfeifengesicht.

I am a little tired to see so many repeats of criticizing against modifications here, perhaps forgetting what the name of this section is: "N20 and N26 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications."

[falar]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Call BMW NA. Having thrown a rod in an E36 M3, I can't personally tell you that it doesn't happen on BMW engines unless you were way over rev and running an insane amount of boost. A tune wouldn't just do that at cruising speeds. If you call BMW NA and get them involved and tell them this is horseshit and that you never tampered with the DME a super majority of the time you will win. I haven't heard of one car that took out the tune before going to the dealer being denied on a warranty issue and that's on n54 and n55 replacements. Even back in the flash ECU days I flashed my e46 M3 back to stock and went in and got Vanos replaced under warranty. The only time I have heard of a warranty denial was an e92 M3 supercharged who blew his engine took off supercharger and tune and they figured it out by checking the RPMs and saw he went nearly 2k over factory redline....

Take my limited advice for what it is. But as a lawyer I can confidently say, get BMW NA involved and you have a chance. If you already admitted to the tune. You are ahit out of luck. Also which dealership you go to matters.

Why would his chances be hurt by admitting to the tune?

I'm not questioning you, but genuinely interested in your opinion since you have a legal background.

The way I understood the Magnusson-Moss act to work is that it puts the burden of proof on the manufacturer that is giving the warranty. To me this means you can just push and push and push until they eventually give in because there is virtually no way to come to court and directly prove you caused the failure in a case like this.

Now if you put an aftermarket driveshaft in and it failed and ripped up your floor boards, ok I know that is a no-brainer. I think it would be awfully hard to come in and show exactly where his JB4 caused a thrown rod. Love it or hate it that is the nature of cars really; a lot of times you can theorize all day long as to what caused what but you'll never know for sure.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by falar

Why would his chances be hurt by admitting to the tune?

I'm not questioning you, but genuinely interested in your opinion since you have a legal background.

The way I understood the Magnusson-Moss act to work is that it puts the burden of proof on the manufacturer that is giving the warranty. To me this means you can just push and push and push until they eventually give in because there is virtually no way to come to court and directly prove you caused the failure in a case like this.

Now if you put an aftermarket driveshaft in and it failed and ripped up your floor boards, ok I know that is a no-brainer. I think it would be awfully hard to come in and show exactly where his JB4 caused a thrown rod. Love it or hate it that is the nature of cars really; a lot of times you can theorize all day long as to what caused what but you'll never know for sure.

To clarify, I meant his chances would be hurt in that he would have to admit, under oath to tuning. You are absolutely right that the burden is still on the manufacturer, however, while before they had 100 possible things that they would have to evaluate that could have caused it, you just pointed them in a direction that they can exploit and narrow their focus. Now they just have lets say 10 things to focus on if they really want to win.

Your power to win in these claims is centered on whether or not they can prove it, when its nearly impossible to prove at the standard set out in the act given the amount of time and money it would take to find exactly what caused it and link it back to you, they are willing to give in. When you point them in a direction, that cost of finding and linking it is reduced. Now mind you I think they would still give in, but techinically it still "hurts"

Again, take this all with a grain of salt, I have been a part of a few of these cases, and the biggest factors are how good your lawyer is, how good their techs are, how dumb you were, what JX you are in, and what judge you have. But just so people here are aware, when you are in a state like CA where CARB exists, it makes life a little harder for you when you want to mod and something goes terribly wrong.

And, if I was his attorney I would have EXPLICITLY told him NOT TO POST ANY PICTURES ON THE FORUM WHATSOEVER. Before or after the issue, (hence why my DD isnt on the forums anywhere because still under warranty). I would also say if something like this happpens delete every trace you can of you and your car on any forums or social media. Makes there job that much harder.

[falar]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

To clarify, I meant his chances would be hurt in that he would have to admit, under oath to tuning. You are absolutely right that the burden is still on the manufacturer, however, while before they had 100 possible things that they would have to evaluate that could have caused it, you just pointed them in a direction that they can exploit and narrow their focus. Now they just have lets say 10 things to focus on if they really want to win.

Your power to win in these claims is centered on whether or not they can prove it, when its nearly impossible to prove at the standard set out in the act given the amount of time and money it would take to find exactly what caused it and link it back to you, they are willing to give in. When you point them in a direction, that cost of finding and linking it is reduced. Now mind you I think they would still give in, but techinically it still "hurts"

Again, take this all with a grain of salt, I have been a part of a few of these cases, and the biggest factors are how good your lawyer is, how good their techs are, how dumb you were, what JX you are in, and what judge you have. But just so people here are aware, when you are in a state like CA where CARB exists, it makes life a little harder for you when you want to mod and something goes terribly wrong.

And, if I was his attorney I would have EXPLICITLY told him NOT TO POST ANY PICTURES ON THE FORUM WHATSOEVER. Before or after the issue, (hence why my DD isnt on the forums anywhere because still under warranty). I would also say if something like this happpens delete every trace you can of you and your car on any forums or social media. Makes there job that much harder.

Makes sense to me. I tend to only think in absolutes (personality quirk) so when I read your first post in my mind you were saying he already committed legal suicide by admitting to the JB4.

Practicing law in California must be interesting. I definitely get a much different vibe out here than other places I've lived and it seems like lawsuits are much more prevalent here and tougher to defend against. I think it goes back a long time as well; I have relatives in LA that won a medical case back in the mid 70s when it appeared to me there was no evidence one way or the other. I only know the details (it was never talked about since it involved a death and some took it pretty hard) because we ended up finding a lot of the depositions and paperwork in my Grandpa's house in the mid 2000s.

[MikeVictor]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

I am a little tired to see so many repeats of criticizing against modifications here, perhaps forgetting what the name of this section is: "N20 and N26 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications."

You've successfully missed the point if that's what you took from my post. This time put on some thicker skin and try reading it again, except this time without the chip on your shoulder. Hehe, chip. I think that's an unintended pun