[talontdone]

So I'm running E85 now and was hoping to be able to run more boost and timing than my pump gas tune ... I'm at a max of 14 degrees now up from 11.5 degrees advance on 93 octane on similar boost, but starting to get some timing correction up top.

Do you think its winter E85 gas that's the limiting factor?? I know others are able to get 15 to 18 degrees timing without any corrections... wondering what I'm missing.

Would have thought with E85 and WMI kit running strong that I wouldn't have an issue with bumping timing.

Thoughts?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f8...0b4365e4cd6df2

[Wires]

It might the other way around. They need to run higher timing due to poor fuel causing slower combustion. Or it could be the neutered winter blend we get. I'd think E85 should be less prone to that since it is more of a "natural antifreeze" with the ethanol.

Where do you get your E85 from?

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by Wires

It might the other way around. They need to run higher timing due to poor fuel causing slower combustion. Or it could be the neutered winter blend we get. I'd think E85 should be less prone to that since it is more of a "natural antifreeze" with the ethanol.

Where do you get your E85 from?

I get my E85 from the G&B location on 17th Ave ... last I checked it was pretty much 85 ethanol on the nose!?

[Wires]

Oh sorry, not questioning the grade, just never saw it in my next of the woods.

[Glemm1970]

Originally Posted by talontdone

So I'm running E85 now and was hoping to be able to run more boost and timing than my pump gas tune ... I'm at a max of 14 degrees now up from 11.5 degrees advance on 93 octane on similar boost, but starting to get some timing correction up top.

Do you think its winter E85 gas that's the limiting factor?? I know others are able to get 15 to 18 degrees timing without any corrections... wondering what I'm missing.

Would have thought with E85 and WMI kit running strong that I wouldn't have an issue with bumping timing.

Thoughts?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f8...0b4365e4cd6df2

You need a log in 4th gear from 3000 to 6800rpm, then switch to 5th gear and crank up to 6700rpm. You have a big boost and not a big timing for the E35-40. Falling timing in the first cylinder. For a GC on the E30-35, 23/24psi in the middle with 11-12 timing is ideal, and 21-22psi at the tail with 16 timing.

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by Glemm1970

You need a log in 4th gear from 3000 to 6800rpm, then switch to 5th gear and crank up to 6700rpm. You have a big boost and not a big timing for the E35-40. Falling timing in the first cylinder. For a GC on the E30-35, 23/24psi in the middle with 11-12 timing is ideal, and 21-22psi at the tail with 16 timing.

Ok I will log 4th gear and post here. Why you think I have big boost? I thought 25 psi is fine
.... I see 1st cylinder is weak ... I will swap plug and coil not sure why it's weak ... also I am gapped 0 022 maybe should drop down to 0.020

[RMMAGA]

over boosting at 3800rpm to 29psi and 247 load, I would ask your tuner to reduce the turbine power in that area, high load/TQ at lower rpm is not really good for your engine and doesn't really make you much faster IMHO

also yes please do a clean log form 2000prm to 6800 rpm as posted, it could be more of an overshoot issue, or a PID tuning issue (feed back) not necessarily the turbine power (feed forward ) tables, but in any case it should be tuned out

you should be able to run 17-18 deg >6krpm with e40 I think with that low IAT, but that said a few correction's now and again also can happen and it pretty normal, you need to see if they happen more and more in a longer run or they settle out to ideal to see if you really have an octane issue

[talontdone]

I'm able to get to 14 degrees at 6200 rpms with zero timing corrections and 26-28 psi. I think its either the Ethanol content isn't that great, or I need to regap my spark plugs. I'm sitting at 0.022" from my 93 octane tune ... thinking with E85 and more boost I should gap down to 0.02"

Here are my latest logs from this morning ... note the low IATs from crazy cold weather!!!

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61fc...729b3a5086f12e

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61fc...0b437c875e3eac

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by RMMAGA

over boosting at 3800rpm to 29psi and 247 load, I would ask your tuner to reduce the turbine power in that area, high load/TQ at lower rpm is not really good for your engine and doesn't really make you much faster IMHO

also yes please do a clean log form 2000prm to 6800 rpm as posted, it could be more of an overshoot issue, or a PID tuning issue (feed back) not necessarily the turbine power (feed forward ) tables, but in any case it should be tuned out

you should be able to run 17-18 deg >6krpm with e40 I think with that low IAT, but that said a few correction's now and again also can happen and it pretty normal, you need to see if they happen more and more in a longer run or they settle out to ideal to see if you really have an octane issue

Great points here .... I will do some more logging. I'm running straight E85 from the pump here as its much easier than blending to e40. Really appreciate your thoughts! THx

[talontdone]

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f1...90c60c0769c69a
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f1...90c609919ff44e

I think part of the problem is when I floor it, it takes a while for the throttle position sensor to show close to 100% ... here are two newer logs, I'm still not thrilled with the 30 psi and high load at ~3700 rpms, my tuner prefers to run higher boost and lower timing than others suggest like GLEM ... I will regap my plugs down to 0.020" as I think running 25 to 30 psi is too much for 0.022" .... my E85 estimated torque and MAF flow figures are not any higher than my 93 octane / 98 ron fuel tune right now ... but the car feels faster for sure.

Any suggestions?

[IMS-340C]

Not doubting your tuner but I find it strange that he prefers to run high boost low timing as their is absolutely no benefit by doing so, but the downside is risking knock, more wear on the turbo and higher fuel consumption.

Originally Posted by talontdone

my tuner prefers to run higher boost and lower timing than others suggest like GLEM

[eluded]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Not doubting your tuner but I find it strange that he prefers to run high boost low timing as their is absolutely no benefit by doing so, but the downside is risking knock, more wear on the turbo and higher fuel consumption.

Latest PFT maps runs half a pound more boost with significantly less timing

[IMS-340C]

True but what are the power gains ? as you know you can achieve same power with less boost/more timing.

Originally Posted by eluded

Latest PFT maps runs half a pound more boost with significantly less timing

[Amazinjoey]

How is your back pressure? What size exhaust are you running and do you have any restrictions?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by talontdone

So I'm running E85 now and was hoping to be able to run more boost and timing than my pump gas tune ... I'm at a max of 14 degrees now up from 11.5 degrees advance on 93 octane on similar boost, but starting to get some timing correction up top.

Do you think its winter E85 gas that's the limiting factor?? I know others are able to get 15 to 18 degrees timing without any corrections... wondering what I'm missing.

Would have thought with E85 and WMI kit running strong that I wouldn't have an issue with bumping timing.

Thoughts?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f8...0b4365e4cd6df2

My pump E85 is really E75 now during winter in NJ. Yet, surprise surprise the price did not drop despite the lower ethanol that they are now selling!

I don't run high ethanol concentrations in cold weather. The car really labors to start in cold temperatures.

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

True but what are the power gains ? as you know you can achieve same power with less boost/more timing.

That's a great question. I'm going to dyno the car this week ... it's impossible to tell with the butt dyno ... car feels significantly faster than my pump gas tune which made about 510 whp / 570 wtq, but almost impossible to tell looking at BM3 logs. I would expect I am close to 600 whp.

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by Amazinjoey

How is your back pressure? What size exhaust are you running and do you have any restrictions?

I've got a 4" VRSF catless DP and stock M performance exhaust .... don't think back pressure is an issue.

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by eluded

Latest PFT maps runs half a pound more boost with significantly less timing

Age old debate .... boost vs timing advance ...

[Amazinjoey]

Originally Posted by talontdone

I've got a 4" VRSF catless DP and stock M performance exhaust .... don't think back pressure is an issue.

But what size is the rest of the exhaust? it sounds like a classic back pressure issue considering you can't bump the timing up.

The problem is the "stock M performance exhaust", it is creating a bottleneck. Also are you running stock exhaust manifold?

[IMS-340C]

Shouldn't be a debate really, it's a fact dropping timing too much will not produce more power.

I tune cars as a hobby and from my experiencing with B58 dropping timing below 8 degrees @6500 RPM will not add significant power if any.

Originally Posted by talontdone

Age old debate .... boost vs timing advance ...

[talontdone]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Shouldn't be a debate really, it's a fact dropping timing too much will not produce more power.

I tune cars as a hobby and from my experiencing with B58 dropping timing below 8 degrees @6500 RPM will not add significant power if any.

I agree dropping timing too much will hurt performance but there is some balance of boost and timing advance that works best right? on pump gas i'm maxed out at 10.5 degrees @ 6500 ... on the E85 we get here in Calgary, Canada I'm maxed out at about 15 degrees.

[IMS-340C]

Correct, every setup is different and has it's own boost/timing balance where reducing timing under a certain degrees will not increase power.

In general with gasoline that point is around 8 degrees timing.

Originally Posted by talontdone

I agree dropping timing too much will hurt performance but there is some balance of boost and timing advance that works best right? on pump gas i'm maxed out at 10.5 degrees @ 6500 ... on the E85 we get here in Calgary, Canada I'm maxed out at about 15 degrees.