[Nexus313]

Hi guys,

Looking at picking up a 2013 335i MSport Manual Mineral Grey on Black interior F30. xDrive AWD. 6 Speed manual. Non nav. (Going to retrofit myself).

62,500 kms (39k miles). No accidents with receipts of maintenance work at the dealer.

His price is $26k CAD ($20k USD) .. Will be PPI'd and saftied at a BMW dealer.

Is it a good deal or should I keep looking??

UPDATE: Paid a little bit extra and ended up with a CPO M235i 6MT Thank you for your suggestions and swaying me away from the 335. I'm really impressed with the M235i!

[BMWinAZ]

I would guess it is a fair deal without knowing anything about the Canadian used car market. I bought my 2013 335i MSport 6mt with 29k miles and a year of CPO warranty left, last March for 26k US$ from a private party. The car has been trouble free so far (knock on wood) and although it was no steal, I considered it a fair price, given the almost complete absence of a good used f30 with a 6 mt in my area.

[upsidedownfunnel]

What other options does it have? Remember the M Sport xDrive without M Adaptive suspension actually has loftier suspension than even the base 335i. So if you want something that drives sporty, you are looking at the wrong car.

Does the car have leather, parking sensors, or rear view camera? If it doesn't have nav, and none of those things, I don't think that's really a very good deal. I wouldn't say it's a bad deal, but you can probably find a better deal.

If you want a more comfortable car that you can drive in inclement weather, though, it should be fine. If you're used to your E90 335i M Sport though, the F30 xDrive is going to feel like an absolute boat and there's a good chance you'll regret it. Even the RWD F30 M Sport was a huge step down dynamically from your current car. Going xDrive will be a huge step down. Even the xDrive with M Adaptive from what i hear isn't very good.

[Nexus313]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

What other options does it have? Remember the M Sport xDrive without M Adaptive suspension actually has loftier suspension than even the base 335i. So if you want something that drives sporty, you are looking at the wrong car.

Does the car have leather, parking sensors, or rear view camera? If it doesn't have nav, and none of those things, I don't think that's really a very good deal. I wouldn't say it's a bad deal, but you can probably find a better deal.

If you want a more comfortable car that you can drive in inclement weather, though, it should be fine. If you're used to your E90 335i M Sport though, the F30 xDrive is going to feel like an absolute boat and there's a good chance you'll regret it. Even the RWD F30 M Sport was a huge step down dynamically from your current car. Going xDrive will be a huge step down. Even the xDrive with M Adaptive from what i hear isn't very good.

No park sensors. No rearview camera.. yeah it has leather.

Looking at the VIN decoded options I don't see M adaptive.. and wow is it really that bloaty? I liked the tightness in my e90 335 steering alot.. I just hated the maintenance and rwd + automatic sucks for me in Canada.

Do you know if putting name brand coilovers would help? Like KW.. etc.

[Nexus313]

Looking at the US Market on this forum (all that's available).. seems like this car is $5-6k USD under market value compared to US.

[the dope steez]

Sounds identical to my car, purchased exactly two years ago for $36k... it was a unicorn here in Edmonton though so I snapped it up.

No nav/tech whatsoever, but like you I plan to do the retrofit. Sounds like a decent option and 6MTs are hard to come by up here so if it feels right I'd go for it. Maybe try and haggle $1k off and use those savings for your NBT retrofit?

[Nexus313]

Originally Posted by the dope steez

Sounds identical to my car, purchased exactly two years ago for $36k... it was a unicorn here in Edmonton though so I snapped it up.

No nav/tech whatsoever, but like you I plan to do the retrofit. Sounds like a decent option and 6MTs are hard to come by up here so if it feels right I'd go for it. Maybe try and haggle $1k off and use those savings for your NBT retrofit?

I tried to get him to 25! That would be a lovely price. But this guy's getting basically almost 26 as trade in for his new M...

Hey I noticed you have coilovers, did that help solve any of the bloaty feeling the other forum member was mentioning?

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

No park sensors. No rearview camera.. yeah it has leather.

Looking at the VIN decoded options I don't see M adaptive.. and wow is it really that bloaty? I liked the tightness in my e90 335 steering alot.. I just hated the maintenance and rwd + automatic sucks for me in Canada.

Do you know if putting name brand coilovers would help? Like KW.. etc.

I had a 335i xdrive on base suspension, and it was floaty, with a lot of body roll on windy roads and corners. The steering also felt way too light and over boosted in comfort mode. In sport mode the steering felt better but still not exactly right. The car actually handles most situations you'll encounter in daily driving, but it didn't feel right doing it. It felt more like an suv than a sporty sedan.

I currently have a 435i xdrive gc with the adaptive msport suspension (came with the dynamic handling package), and it's a night and day difference. It also has the variable sport steering, and while vss receives mixed reviews, I think it drastically improved the steering feel in daily driving applications. Being electric assisted power steering, it still feels different than hydraulic, but in my opinion it's not bad, and easy to get used to. The car also feels much more grounded than the 335i xdrive did, and corners flat with acceptable body roll. It's hard to describe how much different it feels than the 335i without adaptive suspension. The awd component also feels a little less obvious. It feels more like a rwd, but not exactly of course. I'm willing to accept a small compromise for the benefits that xdrive offers. I'm not sure how much of the improvement in perceived driving dynamics is from the msport or the differences in the 4 series chassis though.

All this to say, I'd recommend test driving the car you're currently looking at before committing to it. Coming from an e90 msport, there's a good chance you won't like the f30 xdrive with base suspension, unless you want a soft, quiet ride instead of a tight sporty one.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Fuller

I had a 335i xdrive on base suspension, and it was floaty, with a lot of body roll on windy roads and corners. The steering also felt way too light and over boosted in comfort mode. In sport mode the steering felt better but still not exactly right. The car actually handles most situations you'll encounter in daily driving, but it didn't feel right doing it. It felt more like an suv than a sporty sedan.

I currently have a 435i xdrive gc with the adaptive msport suspension (came with the dynamic handling package), and it's a night and day difference. It also has the variable sport steering, and while vss receives mixed reviews, I think it drastically improved the steering feel in daily driving applications. Being electric assisted power steering, it still feels different than hydraulic, but in my opinion it's not bad, and easy to get used to. The car also feels much more grounded than the 335i xdrive did, and corners flat with acceptable body roll. It's hard to describe how much different it feels than the 335i without adaptive suspension. The awd component also feels a little less obvious. It feels more like a rwd, but not exactly of course. I'm willing to accept a small compromise for the benefits that xdrive offers. I'm not sure how much of the improvement in perceived driving dynamics is from the msport or the differences in the 4 series chassis though.

All this to say, I'd recommend test driving the car you're currently looking at before committing to it. Coming from an e90 msport, there's a good chance you won't like the f30 xdrive with base suspension, unless you want a soft, quiet ride instead of a tight sporty one.

I agree about the night and day difference. I ordered my 2014 328 with DHP which included VSS and after 5 year with the car I'm still very happy. I didn't like DHP in comfort mode so I sprung for Dinan Shockware and that transformed the car. Finally, I ditched the run crap tires. I think we all can agree that we shouldn't have to buy these options and do these upgrades to get a BMW to drive like a BMW. No argument there. But, the F3x is a great car and these tweeks make it better.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

No park sensors. No rearview camera.. yeah it has leather.

Looking at the VIN decoded options I don't see M adaptive.. and wow is it really that bloaty? I liked the tightness in my e90 335 steering alot.. I just hated the maintenance and rwd + automatic sucks for me in Canada.

Do you know if putting name brand coilovers would help? Like KW.. etc.

I forgot you're talking about CAD. Sounds like a decent deal for CAD. Still though, you have to drive it. You'll be shocked how much body roll there is. You can upgrade to coilovers, but those cars have small sway bars which are much harder to swap out. A good set of coilovers will cost about $2000 installed or more. That's 10% of the cost of the car.

Have you ever tried using winter tires? I used to live in Chicago and during snow, having winter tires completely transform your car. I'd rather have a fun car during the summer and take the time to swap out to winter tires in the winter. You don't really even end up spending much more money because you extend the life of your summer tires. Just find a cheap set of used square wheels from the classifieds for winter tires.

[the dope steez]

Yea the car was definitely not as tight as my e90 was. The coil overs definitely helped with the body roll but that adds to your cost. I liked the look of the car, the motor and of course the deal I got so I bought it and then proceeded to modify it to my liking. It drives tighter than my e90 now but the steering feel will never be matched.
It's a great car all year round, x drive helps in winter and it's more than sporty enough in the summer with the 19s, coils and bm3

[Nexus313]

I am looking for a slightly smoother ride as my old e90 msport 335 crashed pretty hard over bumps.. but I did love the tight steering on the e90..

Sounds like coilovers would fix my problem with this car .. at a cost.

However what do you guys think about a 2014 M235i manual has 83k kms. No nav or safety features. Has the DHP and VSS. Also has CPO warranty until 2020. Buyer wants about $3K CAD more than this car however. Would it be worth getting that instead? Trade off is no xDrive which I needed for these bad Canadian winters.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

I am looking for a slightly smoother ride as my old e90 msport 335 crashed pretty hard over bumps.. but I did love the tight steering on the e90..

Sounds like coilovers would fix my problem with this car .. at a cost.

However what do you guys think about a 2014 M235i manual has 83k kms. No nav or safety features. Has the DHP and VSS. Also has CPO warranty until 2020. Buyer wants about $3K CAD more than this car however. Would it be worth getting that instead? Trade off is no xDrive which I needed for these bad Canadian winters.

Placing the xdrive dilemma aside for the moment, I like the cpo m235i over the 335i you're considering. If four doors and back seat space aren't priorities, the m235i will offer sportier dynamics than a 335i xdrive with base suspension. I believe the m235i has adaptive msport suspension too, so you'll have a softer ride in comfort mode and sharper cornering in sport/sport+.

The problem is you're giving up awd with the 235i. You could get snow tires for the rwd 235i and get by, for the most part, but of course xdrive is going to handle better on bad roads. Having xdrive and adaptive msport suspension is obviously the ideal package, but test drive both cars if it's feasible for you. Maybe you won't mind the base xdrive suspension. I personally didn't like it very much, but to each their own. Then again maybe you'll come away from the 235i test drive in love with the car, and willing to compromise on having awd.

[BMWinAZ]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

I am looking for a slightly smoother ride as my old e90 msport 335 crashed pretty hard over bumps.. but I did love the tight steering on the e90..

Sounds like coilovers would fix my problem with this car .. at a cost.

However what do you guys think about a 2014 M235i manual has 83k kms. No nav or safety features. Has the DHP and VSS. Also has CPO warranty until 2020. Buyer wants about $3K CAD more than this car however. Would it be worth getting that instead? Trade off is no xDrive which I needed for these bad Canadian winters.

I currently have both an e90 (2008 328i) and an f30 (2013 335i) in my garage. They are both great cars and I love them. There are some differences, neither good nor bad, just different. First and foremost the 3 series has gotten much bigger over the years and the f30 is size wise imo now in "old 5 series" territory. This, naturally, has some impact on driving characteristics. Yes, the steering in the f30 is lighter, although, to me this is not a bad thing. It's a big car and the lighter steering makes it easier to handle everyday city driving. Both cars have the MSport suspension but the f30 has more ground clearance (the e90 sits really low), again, this helps with speed bumps, bad roads and drainage ditches in everyday driving but adds a little bit more lateral movement in more extreme situations. I have "normal" tires on both cars, which really helps with driving dynamics and comfort. Run flats were noticeably harsh on the e90.

I also test drove a 2 series coupe when I was looking to replace my old e83 last spring. It was a fun car to drive but ultimately the f30 won out due to actually usable back seats. The 2 series has back seats but unless you are a baby, leprechaun or small briefcase, they are for show only.

[Nexus313]

Backseats are definitely a non priority to me. I actually want a fun sporty coupe ... But the early years m235 we're not xDrive and the new ones are far out of my budget. 435i xDrive manual is also an option, but again.. out of budget for low mileage clean ones. I'm not really looking forward to paying $35K+ CAD.

The M235i RWD manual CPO I'm looking at had got everything I need EXCEPT xDrive.. its got MPE exhaust, M perf spoiler, M perf front lip, M perf diffuser, M perf shifter, msport brakes, adaptive suspension, etc. for $4k CAD more than the f30 xDrive base suspension. This also includes a warranty until June 2020/160k kms. Keep in mind all the cosmetic mods and MPE exhaust that are already on the M235 are mods that I would 100% be doing by default if I bought the f30.

I will test it out on Saturday and see if it's worth making the compromise over the f30s xDrive and justifying the $4k more.

If I do decide to get the M235 my only additional expense is: Nav retro fit, Lowering springs & VMR V710 rims in the summer. Which is not needed to be done in a hurry.

[BMWinAZ]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

Backseats are definitely a non priority to me. I actually want a fun sporty coupe ... But the early years m235 we're not xDrive and the new ones are far out of my budget. 435i xDrive manual is also an option, but again.. out of budget for low mileage clean ones. I'm not really looking forward to paying $35K+ CAD.

The M235i RWD manual CPO I'm looking at had got everything I need EXCEPT xDrive.. its got MPE exhaust, M perf spoiler, M perf front lip, M perf diffuser, M perf shifter, msport brakes, adaptive suspension, etc. for $4k CAD more than the f30 xDrive base suspension. This also includes a warranty until June 2020/160k kms. Keep in mind all the cosmetic mods and MPE exhaust that are already on the M235 are mods that I would 100% be doing by default if I bought the f30.

I will test it out on Saturday and see if it's worth making the compromise over the f30s xDrive and justifying the $4k more.

If I do decide to get the M235 my only additional expense is: Nav retro fit, Lowering springs & VMR V710 rims in the summer. Which is not needed to be done in a hurry.

If backseats are not important to you, then the M235i should be a serious contender. It's more tossable than the f30 and front cabin space is good, as a 6' adult I was very comfortable in the driver's seat. The lack of xdrive can be largely overcome by good snow tires (especially in a car with traction control). Also, ditch the run flats and put a "donut" in the trunk, the added weight on the drive axle will improve driving dynamics.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

I am looking for a slightly smoother ride as my old e90 msport 335 crashed pretty hard over bumps.. but I did love the tight steering on the e90..

Sounds like coilovers would fix my problem with this car .. at a cost.

However what do you guys think about a 2014 M235i manual has 83k kms. No nav or safety features. Has the DHP and VSS. Also has CPO warranty until 2020. Buyer wants about $3K CAD more than this car however. Would it be worth getting that instead? Trade off is no xDrive which I needed for these bad Canadian winters.

Have you driven this car yet? The steering is quite a bit different from what you are used to in the E90. You can get aftermarket coilovers to help the suspension but there is little you can do to help the steering. On the other side, the car will be more reliable than a 9 year old E90 and the ride will be far better.

[Nexus313]

Honestly, I'm going to trust the forum and the critics and cross the f30 335 xDrive off my list. I really don't want something I can't feel the road through steering with and feels like a boat, otherwise I'd get a Lexus. Also it's a 500KM trip to Ottawa to go see it & seller is rushing me a bit too much even though he's got no other offers on the table.

I do however want a blend of luxury and sportiness paired with a 6MT.

You guys may not like this but I have cross shopped the B8.5 S4 6MT and I'm really impressed with the way that thing drove. I'm hoping that the M235i 6MT I drive this weekend changes my mind! I'm pretty sure it will

[BMWinAZ]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

Honestly, I'm going to trust the forum and the critics and cross the f30 335 xDrive off my list. I really don't want something I can't feel the road through steering with and feels like a boat, otherwise I'd get a Lexus. Also it's a 500KM trip to Ottawa to go see it & seller is rushing me a bit too much even though he's got no other offers on the table.

I do however want a blend of luxury and sportiness paired with a 6MT.

You guys may not like this but I have cross shopped the B8.5 S4 6MT and I'm really impressed with the way that thing drove. I'm hoping that the M235i 6MT I drive this weekend changes my mind! I'm pretty sure it will

Don't feel bad for liking the Audi. They are great cars that get good reviews and I know a number of people who are very happy with theirs. Plus, Audi will discontinue the manual transmission in their North American cars, so you should get one while you can (just in case the M235i isn't what you expected).

[Nexus313]

LOL. The M235i seller was a complete joke! Didn't let me test drive and raised the price $1k when I got there ("UMM... ACTUALLY I WANT 28K and the deal to be done at the dealership so I get a tax rebate for my car instead").. And he was unsure if the CPO is transferable. No wonder this guys car has been for sale for 3 + months.. So disappointed as I was looking forward to the M235i, his M Performance exhaust wasn't even anything special compared to my PE on my 335.

One thing i'm really starting to notice is the F22/F30 I've sat in have a weird vibration while cruising in the passenger.. Through the dash, seats, etc.. Is this normal?

All of this is really turning me away from BMW. I've loved this brand but i'm starting to get disappointed. Someone needs to convince me its better than this haha.

[BMWinAZ]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

LOL. The M235i seller was a complete joke! Didn't let me test drive and raised the price $1k when I got there ("UMM... ACTUALLY I WANT 28K and the deal to be done at the dealership so I get a tax rebate for my car instead").. And he was unsure if the CPO is transferable. No wonder this guys car has been for sale for 3 + months.. So disappointed as I was looking forward to the M235i, his M Performance exhaust wasn't even anything special compared to my PE on my 335.

One thing i'm really starting to notice is the F22/F30 I've sat in have a weird vibration while cruising in the passenger.. Through the dash, seats, etc.. Is this normal?

All of this is really turning me away from BMW. I've loved this brand but i'm starting to get disappointed. Someone needs to convince me its better than this haha.

Sorry you had a bad experience trying to test drive the M235i. The vibration you describe is not normal, not happening in my 335i nor was it present in the 228i I test drove. Is there any way you can go to a dealer and test drive both a used 335i and an M235i with most of the specs that matter to you to see if you like the vehicle and then expand your internet search to find one with the manual transmission. However, beware of the f30 manual sight unseen. There is a known weakness with the synchromesh (number of threads on these forums) so you absolutely need to drive the car before you buy it. When I looked last spring, I drove a 335i sportline, 2015, 50k miles, at a dealership that only sells BMW lease returns 1st gear popped out twice during a thirty minute test drive! Also, the shift feel on that manual was super disappointing, and that was compared to a 2003 e46 316i compact and an R55 Mini Clubman (2009)! The shift feel on my 2013 335i MSport, that I found a few weeks later and bought is more pleasant but not really that thrilling either. So, if you can't find a BMW you like this time around, maybe you should go for that Audi!

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

LOL. The M235i seller was a complete joke! Didn't let me test drive and raised the price $1k when I got there ("UMM... ACTUALLY I WANT 28K and the deal to be done at the dealership so I get a tax rebate for my car instead").. And he was unsure if the CPO is transferable. No wonder this guys car has been for sale for 3 + months.. So disappointed as I was looking forward to the M235i, his M Performance exhaust wasn't even anything special compared to my PE on my 335.

One thing i'm really starting to notice is the F22/F30 I've sat in have a weird vibration while cruising in the passenger.. Through the dash, seats, etc.. Is this normal?

All of this is really turning me away from BMW. I've loved this brand but i'm starting to get disappointed. Someone needs to convince me its better than this haha.

Bmws are generally great cars, but not the only option. If you can't find a bimmer that has what you need, it's worth checking if there's another make and model that does, and that's available, and priced within your budget.