[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by InstigatorX

Here are 2 new logs on MHD v3.0 E30 ST1. Fuel is E30 (tested to E85 @ E75 level today).

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040420-1
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040420-2

Definitely feels faster and stronger. Knock delta is lower, but timing is all over the place.

The more you increase ethanol content and the more runs you do the better it gets, timing increasing and more consistent. You're at about 415 WHP now.

In the second run you can clearly see wheel spin at 3000 RPM, revs increase then drop back and associated throttle closing to 57%, boost reduction, torque limiters activate, timing and waste gate duty cycle dropping a bit then increase again.

Up to 4356 RPM in that run your timing was perfect, all cylinders at 13 degrees.

Add more E85, target E34.

With that fuel and the Stage 2 E30 map you should be making about 430 WHP with all stock hardware. You don't need Stage 2 mods to run Stage 2 tunes, just try it.

[InstigatorX]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

The more you increase ethanol content and the more runs you do the better it gets, timing increasing and more consistent. You're at about 415 WHP now.

In the second run you can clearly see wheel spin at 3000 RPM, revs increase then drop back and associated throttle closing to 57%, boost reduction, torque limiters activate, timing and waste gate duty cycle dropping a bit then increase again.

Up to 4356 RPM in that run your timing was perfect, all cylinders at 13 degrees.

Add more E85, target E34.

With that fuel and the Stage 2 E30 map you should be making about 430 WHP with all stock hardware. You don't need Stage 2 mods to run Stage 2 tunes, just try it.

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/hgL4uws7aAUes/giphy.gif[/IMG]

I'm scared.

[SC_B5X]

Here is some logs on the new E50 tune we're working on for Pure 800, we're starting from scratch this time around with the new motor and slowly giving it more boost/timing. This is my 3rd revision in, currently on 23psi of boost and 15 degrees of timing.

3rd Gear:
https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...-65&zoom=15-59

4th Gear:
https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...-65&zoom=12-68

[InstigatorX]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

The more you increase ethanol content and the more runs you do the better it gets, timing increasing and more consistent. You're at about 415 WHP now.

In the second run you can clearly see wheel spin at 3000 RPM, revs increase then drop back and associated throttle closing to 57%, boost reduction, torque limiters activate, timing and waste gate duty cycle dropping a bit then increase again.

Up to 4356 RPM in that run your timing was perfect, all cylinders at 13 degrees.

Add more E85, target E34.

With that fuel and the Stage 2 E30 map you should be making about 430 WHP with all stock hardware. You don't need Stage 2 mods to run Stage 2 tunes, just try it.

Bumped up to E34. Still ST1 MHD v3.0 E30 OTS.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040520-1
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040520-2
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040520-3

First 1 is immediately following gassing up to E34. I only added 4 gals total to the tank to get to E34.

[ivanj308]

Reading through this whole thread as well as going with my experiences with OTS as well as a Custom tune is it possible to get logs without timing corrections when one goes above stage 1 if one is running pump gas 91/93 Octane
It seems everyone recommends adding E85 which in my case is not possible or replacing plugs which was done when downpipe was installed a month ago.

Has anyone been able to get clean logs on 91/93 Octane above 18psi of boost ?
If so how did you do it ? Plug gap ? Which tuner ?

[Sleeper340i]

Car has been knocking a lot in first gear.. idk if its from the XHP trans flash, if my HPFP is starting to go, or if I screwed my car up with blending an off mix of E30. Not quite sure if it'll appear on these logs but could use help please and just for overall car health before I install my PURE800.

3rd gear:
https://datazap.me/u/alfanzo2/340i-m...?log=1&data=22

4th gear:
https://datazap.me/u/alfanzo2/340i-m...og=0&data=4-22

[InstigatorX]

Originally Posted by Sleeper340i

Car has been knocking a lot in first gear.. idk if its from the XHP trans flash, if my HPFP is starting to go, or if I screwed my car up with blending an off mix of E30. Not quite sure if it'll appear on these logs but could use help please and just for overall car health before I install my PURE800.

3rd gear:
https://datazap.me/u/alfanzo2/340i-m...=1&data=22

4th gear:
https://datazap.me/u/alfanzo2/340i-m...&data=4-22

What's an off mix of E30? U should upgrade your MHD software to latest version (v1.47), too. Just to be sure everything's being logged correctly. Might've been fixes or something we don't know about.

EDIT: I saw temp is 54F-ish and rail pressure is schizo...my car doesn't so well on higher than E25 or so at low temps. Right now 70F+ it's doing great.

[Sleeper340i]

Originally Posted by InstigatorX

What's an off mix of E30? U should upgrade your MHD software to latest version (v1.47), too. Just to be sure everything's being logged correctly. Might've been fixes or something we don't know about.

I use an E85 calculator to try and get E30 but in the end I might have got way higher like E37. Last E30 mix my car was knocking HARD under WOT. If I did a pull from 0 my car would knock about three hard times shaking the car each knock through first gear and then another one or two in second gear. Thought it was my wheels spinning the whole time stupid me.

And will update my app for sure next time I grab logs thanks for the heads up.
Also this was a92 octane on the 91 MHD Map for these logs not E30! Don't have the E30 logs :/ as I don't plan on running it anymore with Pure800 . You think I'm going that temp still applies to the 91?

[InstigatorX]

Originally Posted by Sleeper340i

I use an E85 calculator to try and get E30 but in the end I might have got way higher like E37. Last E30 mix my car was knocking HARD under WOT. If I did a pull from 0 my car would knock about three hard times shaking the car each knock through first gear and then another one or two in second gear. Thought it was my wheels spinning the whole time stupid me.

And will update my app for sure next time I grab logs thanks for the heads up.
Also this was a92 octane on the 91 MHD Map for these logs not E30! Don't have the E30 logs :/ as I don't plan on running it anymore with Pure800 . You think I'm going that temp still applies to the 91?

Yeah for me at least running too high of E at low temps wasn't good on regular 93oct or E30 OTS. In fact, running E37 on 91oct isn't ideal. Not an expert, but don't believe the fueling is setup for that in the non-E30 OTS tunes. Oz or Kern can chime in.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by InstigatorX

Bumped up to E34. Still ST1 MHD v3.0 E30 OTS.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040520-1
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040520-2
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040520-3

First 1 is immediately following gassing up to E34. I only added 4 gals total to the tank to get to E34.

Looks good. Thanks for including the TMAP and MAP volts

I think your ethanol content is good now, your timing is looking a lot better and delta for knock adaption is 0. Fuel rail pressure is still on target too.

Power has topped out around that 410 - 415 WHP level you'd expect from that OTS map and stock everything else.

Are you going to try the Stage 2 E30 map? Alternatively, now you could go back to the Stage 1 95_102 map now you have the ethanol and octane content right. that map will target slightly more Load/torque/boost, but less timing. Your fuel rail pressure will still be OK.

Also when you do these log runs, is the road dead flat and dry? You're still getting quite a bit of torque limiter activation. Have you tried flashing Stage 3 xHP with torque limits off?

[Sleeper340i]

Originally Posted by InstigatorX

Yeah for me at least running too high of E at low temps wasn't good on regular 93oct or E30 OTS. In fact, running E37 on 91oct isn't ideal. Not an expert, but don't believe the fueling is setup for that in the non-E30 OTS tunes. Oz or Kern can chime in.

Sorry for the confusion, I'll try to clarify. The knock started when I ran the last two E30 blends on E30 MHD. Usually the knock will go away when I switch back to regular gas but now it's constantly having little knocks on my 92 oct fuel in first gear which I run on the MHD 91 OTS stage 2 map because there is no 92 oct OTS option.

So these logs are run on 92 octane on the 91 octane MHD stage 2 map. No E30 or any ethanol added.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by ivanj308

Reading through this whole thread as well as going with my experiences with OTS as well as a Custom tune is it possible to get logs without timing corrections when one goes above stage 1 if one is running pump gas 91/93 Octane
It seems everyone recommends adding E85 which in my case is not possible or replacing plugs which was done when downpipe was installed a month ago.

Has anyone been able to get clean logs on 91/93 Octane above 18psi of boost ?
If so how did you do it ? Plug gap ? Which tuner ?

OTS maps, no, you will have timing corrections.

Custom tune, doubt it for 91/93 octane above 18PSI with stock turbo. The tuner will reduce the knock sensitivity to ignore some of the noise to allow more timing advance and better timing consistency, but 91/93 isn't going to go very well at that level.

Keep in mind that the car as delivered by BMW is having timing corrections and less than optimal timing, just without logging you are blissfully unaware.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by Sleeper340i

Car has been knocking a lot in first gear.. idk if its from the XHP trans flash, if my HPFP is starting to go, or if I screwed my car up with blending an off mix of E30. Not quite sure if it'll appear on these logs but could use help please and just for overall car health before I install my PURE800.

3rd gear:
https://datazap.me/u/alfanzo2/340i-m...?log=1&data=22

4th gear:
https://datazap.me/u/alfanzo2/340i-m...og=0&data=4-22

Your current fuel has low octane, too low for the tune. Everything looks fine from fuel pressure, AFR Load Target to Actual etc. Just need better fuel.

When you had the issue with perhaps too much ethanol and said the car shook it may have been the hard cut you will get if the fuel rail pressure drops below the lower limit.

I recently tested E42 on Stage 2 E30 MHD map with extra boost and I did have rail pressure drop to 1900 PSI, but no rail pressure limit cut.

At E42 previously on MHD Stage 2 95_102 octane map I did have a rail pressure cut, because that map uses more fuel and targets higher torque/boost. It feels pretty dramatic when the car instantly cuts boost when you're into a WOT run

It wouldn't be knock if you're ethanol content was high.

[Sleeper340i]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Your current fuel has low octane, too low for the tune. Everything looks fine from fuel pressure, AFR Load Target to Actual etc. Just need better fuel.

When you had the issue with perhaps too much ethanol and said the car shook it may have been the hard cut you will get if the fuel rail pressure drops below the lower limit.

I recently tested E42 on Stage 2 E30 MHD map with extra boost and I did have rail pressure drop to 1900 PSI, but no rail pressure limit cut.

At E42 previously on MHD Stage 2 95_102 octane map I did have a rail pressure cut, because that map uses more fuel and targets higher torque/boost. It feels pretty dramatic when the car instantly cuts boost when you're into a WOT run

It wouldn't be knock if you're ethanol content was high.

I thought the fuel rail pressure limit was caused by too high of ethanol for the HPFP therefore causing the knock?
But hey I'm glad that everything looks good. Just don't know how my 92 Oct would be too low for a 91 map?..

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by Sleeper340i

I thought the fuel rail pressure limit was caused by too high of ethanol for the HPFP therefore causing the knock?
But hey I'm glad that everything looks good. Just don't know how my 92 Oct would be too low for a 91 map?..

No, it's because you need a lot more volume of ethanol to maintain the same target AFR at the same boost level. If the E content is too high for the HPFP and it can't supply enough fuel, rail pressure drops and if you hit the lower pressure limit the DME triggersan intervention to protect the engine from a potential lean condition and immediately cuts boost, shuts the throttle etc

Ethanol is extremely knock resistant. In fact once you go past E50 you can go past Maximum Break Torque, the spark ignition point where the most power is made, without getting knock.

It's important when tuning higher ethanol blends to use tools like dynos or Virtual Dyno to see where adding more ignition timing achieve the highest torque. If you add more timing and see torque not increase of reduce you need to pull some timing out.

Every log I've seen here where someone is using 91/93 for a 91/93 OTS map has timing corrections and indications of less than optimal combustion. If you look back at InstigatorX's logs you can see how increasing the octane via E85 % increase has greatly improved things.

If you don't want to use E85 you could add octane booster to see if it's just low octane that's the problem.

[InstigatorX]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Looks good. Thanks for including the TMAP and MAP volts

I think your ethanol content is good now, your timing is looking a lot better and delta for knock adaption is 0. Fuel rail pressure is still on target too.

Power has topped out around that 410 - 415 WHP level you'd expect from that OTS map and stock everything else.

Are you going to try the Stage 2 E30 map? Alternatively, now you could go back to the Stage 1 95_102 map now you have the ethanol and octane content right. that map will target slightly more Load/torque/boost, but less timing. Your fuel rail pressure will still be OK.

Also when you do these log runs, is the road dead flat and dry? You're still getting quite a bit of torque limiter activation. Have you tried flashing Stage 3 xHP with torque limits off?

I'll try the ST2 tomorrow. I'm doing logs on a toll road that has some slope and a few bumps and that's prob where TL is kicking in. Road is 100% dry. 1st run was flat. 2nd has some down slope. 3rd was up slope. I've got xHP st2 loaded with TLs off. Will try st3 if you think that'll make a difference?

One thing I noticed in one of the logs was that the typical throttle closure around 3K RPM was not present...why would that be? Def a good sign, just wondering.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by InstigatorX

I'll try the ST2 tomorrow. I'm doing logs on a toll road that has some slope and a few bumps and that's prob where TL is kicking in. Road is 100% dry. 1st run was flat. 2nd has some down slope. 3rd was up slope. I've got xHP st2 loaded with TLs off. Will try st3 if you think that'll make a difference?

One thing I noticed in one of the logs was that the typical throttle closure around 3K RPM was not present...why would that be? Def a good sign, just wondering.

For Virtual Dyno to be more accurate the road should be completely flat during the run, without slopes up or down. It's calculating torque and power like a dyno, based on acceleration (time/rpm/gear) and accounting for the car weight, wind resistance etc and assumes a flat road.

Bumps can activate torque limiters as the tires unload.

I think it's worth trying Stage 3 xHP, maybe just the process of flashing will ensure all the tables and values are correctly written. I use Stage 3 and drive in Comfort mode most of the time I find it perfect.

It could be you had a better road surface, tire temperature etc, so not as much wheel speed variation to require throttle closure, or the DME could manage the torque just via waste gate and ignition timing? There's probably a few different levels of torque limiter depending on the amount of wheel speed variation.

[OzBMR]

Baseline runs from today in preparation for installation of the CG Precision DS-1 that I should receive in the next couple of weeks.

I'm currently using the MHD Stage 2 E30 OTS map as a base tune and adding additional boost via a DIY MAP signal spoofer.

Fuel is at E34, it has xHP Stage 3 trans tune, everything else is stock, including the HPFP. Rail pressure is solid at target.

Currently it's at about 439 WHP and about 467 lbft torque.

Out of interest I did another 100 - 200 as part of one of these runs and recorded 7.4 seconds, slightly slower than the previous best of 7.12

I did test E42 and HPFP rail pressure did drop a lot, down to 1900 PSI but the DME allowed the run to complete and AFR's and everything else was fine. Interestingly power and torque were the same as with E34 and I actually lost a bit of both between 4500 and 5500 RPM. So E34 it is for now.

If the down pipe adds 15 WHP and about 15 lbft it should end up about 454 WHP and 482 lbft torque, we'll see.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by ivanj308

Reading through this whole thread as well as going with my experiences with OTS as well as a Custom tune is it possible to get logs without timing corrections when one goes above stage 1 if one is running pump gas 91/93 Octane
It seems everyone recommends adding E85 which in my case is not possible or replacing plugs which was done when downpipe was installed a month ago.

Has anyone been able to get clean logs on 91/93 Octane above 18psi of boost ?
If so how did you do it ? Plug gap ? Which tuner ?

Custom tune only. OTS maps will never be perfect, but that doesn't mean they aren't safe. Ultimately you can usually drive as is but we recommend adding some E85 to get the most out of the tune. Like OzBMR said, you get a lot of corrections, throttle closures, etc. on the stock tune as well. A custom tune can be dialed in perfectly for your conditions and fuel.

You'll also need a custom tune to run over 18psi. Or wait for the new tunes coming out for the TU pump.

Originally Posted by Sleeper340i

I use an E85 calculator to try and get E30 but in the end I might have got way higher like E37. Last E30 mix my car was knocking HARD under WOT. If I did a pull from 0 my car would knock about three hard times shaking the car each knock through first gear and then another one or two in second gear. Thought it was my wheels spinning the whole time stupid me.

If you felt it in the car then it was a misfire, not knock. Run less E and you should be fine.

[OzBMR]

After looking over quite a few MHD Stage 1 E30 logs from InstigatorX, I thought it could be a better base map to test my MAP signal spoofer, as it has less base boost than the Stage 2 map and a flatter boost profile based on torque/load targets.

Well, it was definitely better, check out the boost/timing on this 3rd gear run. Massive wheel spin from 3300 - 3800 RPM and associated throttle closure, WGDC reduction etc. but up top 17 PSI and 17.5 degrees across all cylinders.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/ozbmr-mhd...-48&zoom=15-59

I also did several 4th gear runs indicating this setup makes better torque and power with less boost, more timing and a 100 - 200 in 7.3 seconds. Virtual Dyno indicates about 453 WHP and 464 lbft

4th gear is pretty flat 18.5 PSI and 5th gear is 19 PSI. There are some timing corrections in the 4th and 5th gear runs, but I'm OK with that. Timing delta for knock adpt. is sticking at 0.

I now plan to use this to re-test against the high flow down pipe data.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/ozbmr-mhd...30-31-32-33-34

Back to back runs...



...and compared to Same setup with MHD Stage 2 E30 map. You can see the area under the curve is greater, so better result.

[Supr3me]

Very nice Oz

[luke79]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

After looking over quite a few MHD Stage 1 E30 logs from InstigatorX, I thought it could be a better base map to test my MAP signal spoofer, as it has less base boost than the Stage 2 map and a flatter boost profile based on torque/load targets.

Well, it was definitely better, check out the boost/timing on this 3rd gear run. Massive wheel spin from 3300 - 3800 RPM and associated throttle closure, WGDC reduction etc. but up top 17 PSI and 17.5 degrees across all cylinders.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/ozbmr-mhd...-48&zoom=15-59

I also did several 4th gear runs indicating this setup makes better torque and power with less boost, more timing and a 100 - 200 in 7.3 seconds. Virtual Dyno indicates about 453 WHP and 464 lbft

4th gear is pretty flat 18.5 PSI and 5th gear is 19 PSI. There are some timing corrections in the 4th and 5th gear runs, but I'm OK with that. Timing delta for knock adpt. is sticking at 0.

I now plan to use this to re-test against the high flow down pipe data.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/ozbmr-mhd...30-31-32-33-34

Back to back runs...



...and compared to Same setup with MHD Stage 2 E30 map. You can see the area under the curve is greater, so better result.

Hi Oz, are you saying that we can achieve 450whp just from fuel and an OTS map ?

There are E30 OTS maps on bm3, can I hope to reach this kind of figures ?