[KRS_SN]

What really worries me is electricity rates. ? Could double when price guarantee ends. I'm thinking of how to prepare for that before that happens.
At current electricity use of 450kwh per month. The current monthly is 168 but calculations with unit rate of 66 gives me a bill of 312 for my usage.

I wonder about solar. I'm in Glasgow.
Will installation of panels help in a cost effective manner to bring bills down?
How long to break even.(house move possible in a few years)
What are peoples solar panel experiences/research.

[mikeoz]

Yesterday the Nat Grid was charged by a small Gas power station £6k for a KW hour. This was a record price.

If you get them get a storage Battery also. Something National infrastructure seems to have missed when it comes to storage in the winter.

[Rathian]

I think your possible issue will be moving house in a few years. Most pay back periods I read are around 6-10 years.

If you have an EV and are on Octopus Go then a battery may work better for you. Charge the car and battery during off peak and use the battery for as much on peak ideas as possible. You could probably take the battery with you to the new house as well.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I wonder about solar. I'm in Glasgow.

One day you may see some 'solar' in Glasgow, you never know!

[Kendo67]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I wonder about solar. I'm in Glasgow.

We have just had some quotes to fit solar panels to the roof of the factory in Cardonald and according to the numbers it will be viable. We recon that the power generated will offset the basic dayshift electrical power consumption when there is no production running , which is pretty much the case now-a-days.

We also considered a wind turbine but it would would have been three times higher than the building at 90m which was not ideal as we are on the flight path for the emergency helicopters going to the QE hospital.

K

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by Pond

One day you may see some 'solar' in Glasgow, you never know!

There isn't a huge difference between north and south, according to this. It's sunlight that's important, not temperature.

https://www.nea.org.uk/who-we-are/in...solar-produce/

[saltyamigo]

Another issue is supply and demand, demand has increased greaty due to the electricity prices and hence solar panel installs are much more expensive than a year or two ago, but hindsight is a great thing. We were going to do as Rathian suggested and fit a storage battery for Octopus Go but even that alone was £11K without solar. We havent gone down that route yet, gas is our big problem rather than electric.

[JD6]

I'm on the other side of this and FWIW the wholesale electricity market isn't priced to stay high forever. Currently it's projecting a return to normal within about 3 years. That doesn't necessarily mean it's correct of course, as there are all sorts of unknowns, but I wouldn't make decisions solely on the assumption that electricity prices will remain permanently at a high level.

[Pentland]

I live in Edinburgh, today it started getting vaguely light around 9am and decided to go back to black around 6 hours later. During the limited daylight, all I could see was frost on my neighbours panels. At least it made it a harder for me to see that eyesore although I do like watching the pigeons nest under them in summer.
Anyway, can’t imagine it pays back at all quickly.

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Problem is with Solar, is in Winter when you need the extra Electric you can't make it. So you have to hope for a good summer to counter act the draw down off the grid in Winter. So far, I can't make the figures work for us. As it current stands you'd need a battery to make it worth while, which more than likely that when you reach pay back point will need replacing anyway.

[mikeoz]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Problem is with Solar, is in Winter when you need the extra Electric you can't make it. So you have to hope for a good summer to counter act the draw down off the grid in Winter. So far, I can't make the figures work for us. As it current stands you'd need a battery to make it worth while, which more than likely that when you reach pay back point will need replacing anyway.

I came out with the same when I costed panels plus battery and then worked out the break even point.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by JD6

I'm on the other side of this and FWIW the wholesale electricity market isn't priced to stay high forever. Currently it's projecting a return to normal within about 3 years. That doesn't necessarily mean it's correct of course, as there are all sorts of unknowns, but I wouldn't make decisions solely on the assumption that electricity prices will remain permanently at a high level.

"Act in haste, repent at leisure" springs to mind

[Pond]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Problem is with Solar, is in Winter when you need the extra Electric you can't make it. So you have to hope for a good summer to counter act the draw down off the grid in Winter. So far, I can't make the figures work for us. As it current stands you'd need a battery to make it worth while, which more than likely that when you reach pay back point will need replacing anyway.

Bloody laws of physics. Always there to scupper the clever ideas we may have.

Air source heat pumps are my favourite example. All the rage but don't produce any heat when it's cold.

[Nibbles]

The quote I had last week was for a 6.5KW 16 panel system with a 5KW modular battery that we could expand at a later date. Installed on a south facing roof in the south east. All in its £14k. I’m waiting to get some other quotes in to compare. If you’re looking to get solar and even thinking about a battery it might be worth getting at the same time so you get the VAT relief on the battery as well.

Even if that managed to fulfill all our electricity needs, which I’m sure it wouldn’t in winter, it would be a 7 year payback (possibly 5-6 when the prices increase next year).
Until I can get our gas usage under control, change the heating system and look to get in a system that can also take a feed in from the solar for the hot water, I can’t see it being a good use of funds.
Model Y arrives on Friday so that may increase the electricity usage enough to change my thinking but we’ll see.

[t5pilot]

The biggest issue with new solar installations is the lack of FIT.
i was lucky, we had ours installed & commissioned in July 2015, when the FIT wasn’t too bad at all.
With the savings in grid usage plus the FIT payments, it had paid for itself before the end of 2020.
To put it into perspective, my annual FIT payments almost cover my annual electricity costs from the grid.
For a new install without FIT, youre not limited to a 4kw system, so the way to go is as much KW as possible for your roof space. And battery storage.
I believe Costco are doing domestic packages that are quite reasonable?

[robbiep]

As someone that has solar PV and a battery (4kW solar, 8kWh battery), that was fitted at the end of last year, our takeaway from it :

Best months (April - August)- if you utilise sensibly, you can ensure you use the self-generated electricity for a lot of your needs - for example, schedule washing machine to run in the day, rather than it use your stored battery power in the evening - you keep the battery for what you NEED to use in the evening.
Spring / autumn - (March, September, October) still pretty decent, 50%+ of our needs from panels/battery
Winter (Nov-Feb) - 10-30% from solar

Our solar generation for this year :

Jan 105.3
Feb 158.4
Mar 413.3
Apr 525.7
May 582.1
Jun 606.5
Jul 573.8
Aug 574
Sep 336.5
Oct 242.0
Nov 127.9
Dec 40.8 (first 13 days only, probably be <100kWh for the month)

[Pond]

There is one thing that has not been mentioned with regard fitting panels on an existing roof, regardless of money saving vs outlay.

Your average pitched timber roof was NOT designed to have permanent additional weight attached to it. Most houses in the UK have 'trussed' roofs (built after the 1960s). These are made of matchsticks, held together with nail plates. All calculated very carefully to carry the load of an average clay or concrete tile, or slate roof covering; taking into account things like wind loads and used as structural support for the masonry. They 'tie' the house together.

Sticking heavy panels on the weakest part of the roof (half way between the ridge and the eaves) without complex loading calculations, including potential snow loading, wind uplift and compression is a problem waiting to happen IMO.

Who does these calculations and passes the roofs as OK before installation?

Just interested.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by robbiep

As someone that has solar PV and a battery (4kW solar, 8kWh battery), that was fitted at the end of last year, our takeaway from it :

Best months (April - August)- if you utilise sensibly, you can ensure you use the self-generated electricity for a lot of your needs - for example, schedule washing machine to run in the day, rather than it use your stored battery power in the evening - you keep the battery for what you NEED to use in the evening.
Spring / autumn - (March, September, October) still pretty decent, 50%+ of our needs from panels/battery
Winter (Nov-Feb) - 10-30% from solar

Our solar generation for this year :

Jan 105.3
Feb 158.4
Mar 413.3
Apr 525.7
May 582.1
Jun 606.5
Jul 573.8
Aug 574
Sep 336.5
Oct 242.0
Nov 127.9
Dec 40.8 (first 13 days only, probably be <100kWh for the month)

Sounds like the argument for an EV; pay a fortune up front, plan your use carefully, get yourself over any inconvenience and it will be worthless in a few years because the tech is worn out.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Pond

There is one thing that has not been mentioned with regard fitting panels on an existing roof, regardless of money saving vs outlay.

Your average pitched timber roof was NOT designed to have permanent additional weight attached to it. Most houses in the UK have 'trussed' roofs (built after the 1960s). These are made of matchsticks, held together with nail plates. All calculated very carefully to carry the load of an average clay or concrete tile, or slate roof covering; taking into account things like wind loads and used as structural support for the masonry. They 'tie' the house together.

Sticking heavy panels on the weakest part of the roof (half way between the ridge and the eaves) without complex loading calculations, including potential snow loading, wind uplift and compression is a problem waiting to happen IMO.

Who does these calculations and passes the roofs as OK before installation?

Just interested.

That is scaremongering. The installation company will look at the roof design, put it into the calculators and see if the roof is suitable.

To imply that roofs are built with zero additional loading tolerance is a load of crap - they are built to handle massive loads (think snow loading, wind loading), even more so in Scotland or very exposed areas of England / Wales (Scottish roof construction is massively over-engineered).

Describing modern gang-nailed trusses as being like 'matchsticks' is a load of balls, and completely removes any level of credibility that you might be trying to pretend to have.

There are solar PV installations in the UK that are 30, even 40+ years old, but amazingly the roof hasn't fallen in yet. My mum had hers put on her modern, trussed roof house (the horror !) in about 2002, and the roof hasn't collapsed yet !

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Pentland

Sounds like the argument for an EV; pay a fortune up front, plan your use carefully, get yourself over any inconvenience and it will be worthless in a few years because the tech is worn out.

No, you don't have to 'plan your use carefully' at all. You just have to engage your brain a bit, and help the system to maximise your savings and reduce your grid use (and thus your costs) as far as possible.

Our 'typical' grid electricity use from previous years was 3700-4000 kWh. This year so far we're at 1141 kWh.

If you look at energy at the price cap (34p/kWh), that's going to be an approximate saving of £750-850 for this year, for a £9k investment

Now, solar panels do degrade over time. By less than (and they've been around for a long time now) 0.5% per annum. So on that, in 20 years, our 4kW system will only be producing a max of 3.6kW. So basically, the panels will probably outlast me.
The battery has an absolute 10 year warranty on it - the company reckon it's good for 15-20 years.
The inverter is always the weak point - 10-15 year lifespan (£750-£1k replacement cost)

But yeah, obsolete / worn out like an EV (or any other car) before you can turn around twice.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by robbiep

That is scaremongering. The installation company will look at the roof design, put it into the calculators and see if the roof is suitable.

To imply that roofs are built with zero additional loading tolerance is a load of crap - they are built to handle massive loads (think snow loading, wind loading), even more so in Scotland or very exposed areas of England / Wales (Scottish roof construction is massively over-engineered).

Describing modern gang-nailed trusses as being like 'matchsticks' is a load of balls, and completely removes any level of credibility that you might be trying to pretend to have.

There are solar PV installations in the UK that are 30, even 40+ years old, but amazingly the roof hasn't fallen in yet. My mum had hers put on her modern, trussed roof house (the horror !) in about 2002, and the roof hasn't collapsed yet !

I'm not scaremongering. I know a little about the way roofs are built.
Trussed roofs are not gang nailed. They use nail plates.
I am interested whether anyone; LABC or structural engineers, are consulted by the 'renewables' companies when they shove these panels on peoples' roofs.

I had planning for solar panels on the last house I built (yes I have built a few) and had no request from anyone for calculations of loading. I didn't end up installing them because they would have spoiled the look of my slate roof TBH.

[KRS_SN]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think I'm getting the hang of this.

You can't generate your own gas/gas heating is from fossil fuel so it is non renewable so (paradoxically)cheaper.

You can generate your own electricity but have to pay to go solar ie drive a domestic green revolution using own capital and will save money by not paying inflated electricity costs that you would otherwise endure(clever).

If you don't go solar then you'll pay higher electricity costs ie be taxed by the energy policy and the money goes towards the energy firms who are investing in renewables on your behalf.