[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Sadly looking at various online forums the Flip and Fold phones do have a lot of issues with the hinge/screen. The 2 year warranty helps but these things should be lasting years. When mine comes back I will probably sell it on, it the screen has failed once it will happen again .

I end up with a S24 U by the end of the year .

I may follow suit. I believe its out in end of January. If its too dear and not too different from the S23U the latter is likely significantly cheaper monthly.

Originally Posted by 335dX

It's from receipt, and once you have told the seller you wish to return, you have another 14 days to get it back to them.

This may differ for special order items.

I only know this law from selling cars online, same laws apply!

Thanks that's helpful! It's great that in the UK we have customer rights. The upfront fee was paid using credit card.

[winther1]

Hopefully the S24U will finally have a large sensor for cleaner, more artifact free images.
The Vivo x100Pro got a global release by the way - looks amazing and great price
https://www.vivo.com/en/products/x100pro

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by winther1

The Vivo x100Pro got a global release by the way - looks amazing and great price

The specs look good the Vivo will undercut the S24U by quite a bit I suspect. Samsung looks like they are going down better x5 optical + software zoom versus x10 optical. The list price of the S24U will be mad without vouchers/discounts.

I've just found the Honor comes with an IR blaster that works really well with the TV and the battery life is mad, despite me playing with the phone all day still on 50% SOC.

As long as the Google apps support is official these things do look like great value - I picked up the Honor for £500, mad price for something with this much kit. The Fold has just been picked up by DPD on the way back to Samsung, I'll see what happens with it.

[winther1]

Well done picking the Honor - great specs and price. Very close in performance to the Vivo.
If you are not afraid to go for lesser known brands in the UK, you get so much more tech for your money

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by winther1

Well done picking the Honor

This thread is to blame .

Went to pair the phone in the Lexus today which we’ve owned now for nearly 9 years, and it reminded me how many Samsung phones we’ve had paired to the car.

• S7x2
• S9
• A7
• Note 20
• A33
• S21U
• Fold 4

I did think I was OK with keeping phones for while, but clearly not!!! A 24U to come after the Fold was getting to predictable, so if nothing else I know the car’s bluetooth can pair with none Samsung devices .

[KRS_SN]

Me and mrs dabbled in iPhone until 2013 before we went samsung because of the apple bloatware that had to be installed on the PC to sync etc and samsung was pretty much you could do what you wanted with it. No problem so far over the 2 years that we keep the contract phones. I'm reluctant to change though build quality seems to be an area that Samsung could be suspect in.

[Eddamoo]

Great to see a thread on 'unusual' phones! The Mrs and have have been running a Mi11 Ultra for nearly the last two years and are starting to look at something new. It has a fantastic camera and was one of the best of its time, although the software was somewhat lacking. We had to run them on a custom global Rom which has now lost Google Pay support and regular patches unfortunately.

Will definitely be looking at the Vivo with interest! What are they like for staying up to date with security patches? My work is pretty strict on security patching so need something with decent long term support.

[martin10chk]

Really interesting thread. It is pretty amazing how well the best phones now perform given that even a 'big' 1" sensor has less than 1/7th the surface area of a full frame sensor.

[winther1]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

Great to see a thread on 'unusual' phones! The Mrs and have have been running a Mi11 Ultra for nearly the last two years and are starting to look at something new. It has a fantastic camera and was one of the best of its time, although the software was somewhat lacking. We had to run them on a custom global Rom which has now lost Google Pay support and regular patches unfortunately.

Will definitely be looking at the Vivo with interest! What are they like for staying up to date with security patches? My work is pretty strict on security patching so need something with decent long term support.

Security patches/updates have been great so far. Better than the sceptics predicted as they said the Chinese tend to abandon their phones quickly. Waiting for Origin OS 4 to be released. Trial users say it improves the cameras even further and brings a lot of new features.
Used the Sport mode with the native 2x zoom on new years eve. This mode uses a high shutter speed to freeze the action and compensates lack of light hitting the sensor with a high ISO - and still generates a clean image:

[winther1]

Originally Posted by martin10chk

Really interesting thread. It is pretty amazing how well the best phones now perform given that even a 'big' 1" sensor has less than 1/7th the surface area of a full frame sensor.

Yes, it's amazing. So much more progress being made than in conventional DSLR tech.
While a 1" sensor helps a lot towards a cleaner image, a lot of the impressive output still comes from clever image processing.

[MashinBenzin]

Interesting to see this thread again.

I supplemented the S23U with an iPhone 15 pro max in November. They get roughly similar amounts of use - quite a lot for each.

Camera wise, both good. There were occasions in Dubai at night where the S23U held side to side with the 15PM seemed to capture a scene that was closest to what my eyes were seeing.

I think the Samsung looks vastly better (both front and back), feels way better in the hand, and feels by far the slicker and more intuitive phone to use with things like the swipe to go back across all apps.

[winther1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Interesting to see this thread again.

I supplemented the S23U with an iPhone 15 pro max in November. They get roughly similar amounts of use - quite a lot for each.

Camera wise, both good. There were occasions in Dubai at night where the S23U held side to side with the 15PM seemed to capture a scene that was closest to what my eyes were seeing.

I think the Samsung looks vastly better (both front and back), feels way better in the hand, and feels by far the slicker and more intuitive phone to use with things like the swipe to go back across all apps.

I never understood why Apple insists on making chunky phones. Yes, the S23U is sleek and sits well in the hand.
Another beauty and contender for the top spot in terms of image quality is the Oppo Find X7 Ultra

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by winther1

Yes, it's amazing. So much more progress being made than in conventional DSLR tech.
While a 1" sensor helps a lot towards a cleaner image, a lot of the impressive output still comes from clever image processing.

The progress is not so much in the sensors, though, as in the processing of the data coming from them...

DSLR cameras seem to have stagnated development-wise now as the manufacturers shift focus (ahem, sorry) to mirrorless offerings (no new DSLR in the Nikon Pro range for four years now)... there is much more being developed on the mirrorless cameras...

To be honest, I would not buy a phone particularly for it's photographic capabilities as I have enough professional camera equipment to do most things I need (as I am sure you have also).. By this, I mean the photo capability of the phone is not top of my list of features I look for... I do use my phone to snap things as I go about daily life... but am not going to using it for commissions...

[winther1]

Originally Posted by DaveA

The progress is not so much in the sensors, though, as in the processing of the data coming from them...

DSLR cameras seem to have stagnated development-wise now as the manufacturers shift focus (ahem, sorry) to mirrorless offerings (no new DSLR in the Nikon Pro range for four years now)... there is much more being developed on the mirrorless cameras...

To be honest, I would not buy a phone particularly for it's photographic capabilities as I have enough professional camera equipment to do most things I need (as I am sure you have also).. By this, I mean the photo capability of the phone is not top of my list of features I look for... I do use my phone to snap things as I go about daily life... but am not going to using it for commissions...

I agree the phones rely heavily on processing. Vivo made a big deal out of their V2 Dual chip - but combined with a 1" sensor, the phones edge a little closer to what a conventional camera can do - such a natural bokeh.

I meant to refer to mirrorless, not DSLR which is more or less abandoned by the prosumer market. Even here, I think we have reached a point where innovation has stagnated a bit. I own two Sony A9's. The new A9 III has a global shutter - good for a niche market - but they were not able to implement it without ISO capabilities taking a hit. It handles high ISO worse than the first A9.

Anyway - the Vivo is the first phone that I regularly use professionally alongside my A9 cameras. Not in an obvious way, as that will look unprofessional, but for general low light and high dynamic range scenes, it does a terrific job. It will of course never replace real cameras as there are things it can't do. But it's a great addition. And it's the best travel companion - my holiday pictures have never looked better!

[gangzoom]

So Samsung has fixed my Fold 4, no questions asked, and no cost under the 2 year EU wide warranty. I have to be honest and say I cannot wait for it to come back, the sim will be going back in it as soon as I can grab the parcel out of the DPD couriers hands .



On paper the Honor is better in every metric, camera, battery life, even display!! In fact the Honor scores higher than the S23U. However I miss the folding format of the Fold, I miss the stable software on the Samsung (I have to force restart the Honor daily), and despite the massive score difference in cameras on paper, for me in reality the difference in the pictures that two phones produce is marginal. Most people I think will have a similar experience, maybe I should have tried a 12 month's old Pixel!

Ive got till Sunday to return the Honor, probably wouldnt though as I got it so cheap, and having a 'spare' phone with a 10hr battery and better camera might be handy for holidays. For daily use though I'll be sticking to Samsung, and probably future Folds despite the reliability issues/camera review website scores.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by DaveA

To be honest, I would not buy a phone particularly for it's photographic capabilities as I have enough professional camera equipment to do most things I need (as I am sure you have also).. By this, I mean the photo capability of the phone is not top of my list of features I look for... I do use my phone to snap things as I go about daily life... but am not going to using it for commissions...

Id agree...
I have the galaxy s21 it's a good everyday phone. Good enough for pics of me/family etc...
I stupidly left it on the wood surface of the sauna once for 20 minutes and it overheated and overnight the battery capacity halved probably dead cells. If not for that I'd be happy with it.

[gangzoom]

So the Fold is back, and the sim has gone back into the Samsung device. I’ve really missed the Samsung One UI versus the skin put on by Honor. Even though the specs say the screen on the Honor is better, the Fold’s screen just looks nicer. The bit I really didn’t expect I miss about the Fold versus the slab phone was the smaller folded form factor. Not massively smaller when folded up, but you notice the difference when putting it in the pocket of jeans/trousers.

A few things the Fold can do better though, battery life is poor compared to the Honor, and ofcourse the cameras on the Fold based on specs are far worse. But I wouldn’t buy any smartphone just for photography.

On the Honor anyways the lack of stability in software, clunky UI, puts the user experience too far behind Samsung for any gain in camera spec to make up, when in add in the dynamic form factor of the Fold, its game over for the Honor. I suspect most of the other Chinese market Android phone are similar, and that’s with Honor officially supporting the Play store. The only time when the sim will go back into the Honor is probably when battery life is a key priority, the camera gains really is pretty touch and go for my usage. I don’t pixel peep, nor earn a living from taking photos.

I always think its worth trying something new in life, but just be willing to accept something you make the wrong call. I’ll be sticking to Samsung branded Android devices from now on.

[XAlp]

For you camera aficionados…

Check out the “effect” (I hope) on pic 9 🥴

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401115450648

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by winther1

I agree the phones rely heavily on processing. Vivo made a big deal out of their V2 Dual chip - but combined with a 1" sensor, the phones edge a little closer to what a conventional camera can do - such a natural bokeh.

They have to rely 100% on processing, though, don't they, as their designs rule out any natural bokeh in the way you'd understand it with 35mm or medium format cameras... Even crop sensors in DSLR's create some limitations...

Originally Posted by winther1

I meant to refer to mirrorless, not DSLR which is more or less abandoned by the prosumer market. Even here, I think we have reached a point where innovation has stagnated a bit. I own two Sony A9's. The new A9 III has a global shutter - good for a niche market - but they were not able to implement it without ISO capabilities taking a hit. It handles high ISO worse than the first A9.

DSLR's still have a use for some things, hence Nikon etc hanging on to their production of Pro models, but I accept that it is mainly Pro's who get into those needs... I use a mirrorless now and it does have limitations that if I went back to some of my older work I would rent a DSLR in some instances...

What is a limitation for DSLR's now is that the new mirrorless lenses being developed cannot be adapted to fit... so no new lenses for the DSLR...

[winther1]

Originally Posted by DaveA

They have to rely 100% on processing, though, don't they, as their designs rule out any natural bokeh in the way you'd understand it with 35mm or medium format cameras... Even crop sensors in DSLR's create some limitations...



DSLR's still have a use for some things, hence Nikon etc hanging on to their production of Pro models, but I accept that it is mainly Pro's who get into those needs... I use a mirrorless now and it does have limitations that if I went back to some of my older work I would rent a DSLR in some instances...

What is a limitation for DSLR's now is that the new mirrorless lenses being developed cannot be adapted to fit... so no new lenses for the DSLR...

Yes, the pictures would not look good without the clever processing, regardless of the sensor (an example is the expensive but flawed Sony Experia Pro-1). But a bigger sensor does help when implemented properly.
There is a degree of natural bokeh on 1" sensors that smaller sensors can't achieve (noticeable the closer you get to the subject in focus). It has also been suggested that the larger sensors make it easier for the phone to create more accurate artificial bokeh as there is a degree of natural separation between subject matter and background.

Artificial bokeh has come a long way, particularly on the Vivo. It's even doing an amazing job on the "weakest" lens in the setup, the 3.5x zoom (90mm equivalent) - perfect, gradual foreground & background blur. You can change the focal point and blur strength after snapping:

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by winther1

Yes, the pictures would not look good without the clever processing, regardless of the sensor (an example is the expensive but flawed Sony Experia Pro-1). But a bigger sensor does help when implemented properly.
There is a degree of natural bokeh on 1" sensors that smaller sensors can't achieve (noticeable the closer you get to the subject in focus). It has also been suggested that the larger sensors make it easier for the phone to create more accurate artificial bokeh as there is a degree of natural separation between subject matter and background.

Artificial bokeh has come a long way, particularly on the Vivo. It's even doing an amazing job on the "weakest" lens in the setup, the 3.5x zoom (90mm equivalent) - perfect, gradual foreground & background blur. You can change the focal point and blur strength after snapping:

The bokeh comes from the lens, though, right... and the biggest problem for a phone giving an optical bokeh will always the lack of distance from lens to sensor...

You can readily see in that example the AI defects/artefacts from an artificially generated look... Blurring of the edges on the tree branches... objects equidistant were some are blurred and others not...

I can see similar in the latest AI lens blur tools that Adobe are trialling in their software suites, also... None of the tools seem yet able to give you the subtlety of a natural sharpness fall off of a lens bokeh... There will always be areas where it cannot decide one way or the other and the controls don't seem able to resolve that...

It's understandable... Just what it is...

[winther1]

Originally Posted by DaveA

The bokeh comes from the lens, though, right... and the biggest problem for a phone giving an optical bokeh will always the lack of distance from lens to sensor...

You can readily see in that example the AI defects/artefacts from an artificially generated look... Blurring of the edges on the tree branches... objects equidistant were some are blurred and others not...

I can see similar in the latest AI lens blur tools that Adobe are trialling in their software suites, also... None of the tools seem yet able to give you the subtlety of a natural sharpness fall off of a lens bokeh... There will always be areas where it cannot decide one way or the other and the controls don't seem able to resolve that...

It's understandable... Just what it is...

Of course, it is not a match for a dedicated camera setup like my Sony A9, but I am looking at this solely from a mobile photography point of view. With these picture, you will always be able to find errors when pixel peeping.
Nobody is expecting a result that is indistinguishable from a £4K camera/Gmaster lens
I chose a fake bokeh snap with the lens most likely to fail the challenge - and it still does an admirable job