[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by JimmyDee

I used a mObridge DA3, to tap into the car's fiber optic system. I just use it as pass-through into my Helix DSP-Pro II.
The Helix DSP is the real star of the show. It controls all 10 active speakers, except the sub.
Because the Helix only has 10 channels, I used one of the DSP channels on the mObridge to control the sub. Works perfectly.

Ok, sometimes it takes me a few before it hits me, but I just realized you have no rear shelf speakers like a F30.

You are using all 10 channels from a Helix Pro and that wasn’t enough.

Assume you are using

F L Tweeter
F L Mid
F L Woofer
F R Tweeter
F R Mid
F R Woofer
R L Tweeter
R L Midrange
R R Tweeter
R R Midrange
For your 10 Channels

And the extra for the subwoofer.

Given that, it seems no way to control rear shelf mid and tweeters in a F30

And Musicar is only recommending the 8 channel Helix non-Pro Version for F30s

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

You are using all 10 channels from a Helix Pro and that wasn’t enough.

Assume you are using

F L Tweeter
F L Mid
F L Woofer
F R Tweeter
F R Mid
F R Woofer
R L Tweeter
R L Midrange
R R Tweeter
R R Midrange
For your 10 Channels

This is correct.

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

And the extra for the subwoofer.

The mObridge DA3 has an additional 8 channel DSP, that I've utilized.
I run the sub through one of the mObridge DSP channels.

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

I just realized you have no rear shelf speakers like a F30.

I do have rear shelf speakers (in addition to rear door speakers), which I've been playing with recently.
Again, I am using a couple channels from the mObridge DA3 to control those.
The issue I'm having, is that my rear stage is starting to over-power the main front stage, so I've been tinkering with the level control.
Also, I need to add another small 2 channel amplifier to run these... and it's just not worth it, for the minimal (almost negative) effect these add.

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

And Musicar is only recommending the 8 channel Helix non-Pro Version for F30s

I suspect they recommend this, because their standard BMW upgrade system only uses 7 channels.
They do the front doors with a Morel passive set, which takes 2 channels
The under-seat midwoofers take 2 more channels
The rear doors are typically a coax set, which takes 2 more channels
Then a sub - for a total of 7 channels used.
Musicar's upgraded system is a MASSIVE improvement over the stock OEM system... for 99% of the market, it would be more than enough.
It's kind of a mid-way point between stock, and what I've done...

As it sits right now; I am using 13 DSP channels in total.
10 from the Helix (as described above), and 3 from the mObridge (sub and 2 rear shelf speakers).

I don't show the rear shelf speakers in my diagram below, because I'm not sure I want to keep them running.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by JimmyDee

This is correct.


The mObridge DA3 has an additional 8 channel DSP, that I've utilized.
I run the sub through one of the mObridge DSP channels.


I do have rear shelf speakers (in addition to rear door speakers), which I've been playing with recently.
Again, I am using a couple channels from the mObridge DA3 to control those.
The issue I'm having, is that my rear stage is starting to over-power the main front stage, so I've been tinkering with the level control.
Also, I need to add another small 2 channel amplifier to run these... and it's just not worth it, for the minimal (almost negative) effect these add.


I suspect they recommend this, because their standard BMW upgrade system only uses 7 channels.
They do the front doors with a Morel passive set, which takes 2 channels
The under-seat midwoofers take 2 more channels
The rear doors are typically a coax set, which takes 2 more channels
Then a sub - for a total of 7 channels used.
Musicar's upgraded system is a MASSIVE improvement over the stock OEM system... for 99% of the market, it would be more than enough.
It's kind of a mid-way point between stock, and what I've done...

As it sits right now; I am using 13 DSP channels in total.
10 from the Helix (as described above), and 3 from the mObridge (sub and 2 rear shelf speakers).

I don't show the rear shelf speakers in my diagram below, because I'm not sure I want to keep them running.

What’s the volume of the subwoofer enclosure you built?

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

What’s the volume of the subwoofer enclosure you built?

0.5 ft³

Audiofrog recommends 0.6 ft³ for this sub, so it's just a tad small... but working with the space I have, it's sounds really good.

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by JimmyDee

I do have rear shelf speakers (in addition to rear door speakers), which I've been playing with recently.
Again, I am using a couple channels from the mObridge DA3 to control those.
The issue I'm having, is that my rear stage is starting to over-power the main front stage, so I've been tinkering with the level control.
Also, I need to add another small 2 channel amplifier to run these... and it's just not worth it, for the minimal (almost negative) effect these add.

UPDATE:
After fine-tuning the settings for the Audiofrog GB10 / GB40 rear door speakers, I've decided to abandon the rear shelf speakers entirely.
If anything, they detract from the overall sound stage, and add unnecessary added channels.

The system is finished, and is as shown below... and it sounds INCREDIBLE!

[PapaDiva]

WOW - This looks really good. So I am assuming that the physical audio connections go from the OEM receiver to the OEM amps and then to the speakers from the amp - right? In this case, I am assuming that you simply took the audio input wires from the existing OEM amp and then re-routed them to the new amp, which you placed in the same space?

Any chance that you might have torned into the full sound system? If so, would you happen to know where the OEM radio receiver is located? I want to get access to the FM antenna plug that is feeding into the FM receiver. Any idea?

.

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by PapaDiva

WOW - This looks really good. So I am assuming that the physical audio connections go from the OEM receiver to the OEM amps and then to the speakers from the amp - right?

No... the connection is directly off the fiber optic MOST cable from the head unit. I used a mObridge DA3 to tap into the MOST fiber network.
http://mobridge.us/product/da3-dsp-professional-most/

From the mObridge DA3, I then went into a Helix DSP-Pro sound processor.

From the Helix sound processor, I then went into MMATS aftermarket amplifiers. The factory amp is completely removed.

All the factory speakers are removed and replaced with aftermarket speakers.

If you follow the flow of the diagram in my signature, you can see how it is put together.

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by PapaDiva

Any chance that you might have torned into the full sound system? If so, would you happen to know where the OEM radio receiver is located? I want to get access to the FM antenna plug that is feeding into the FM receiver. Any idea?

To access the FM antenna plug, you need to remove the front facia.


Then you pull out the actual head unit behind.


From the backside of the head unit, is the connection to the FM receiver cable.

[Jvac]

The level of competency and attention to detail is outstanding sir. I am amazed that you found this much time to work on the project with 2 kids around. I can barely manage a few minutes to take a dump without being pestered.

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by Jvac

The level of competency and attention to detail is outstanding sir.

Thanks.
This isn't my first rodeo... I've been doing car audio (as a hobby) for many years, so I have a pretty good grasp of it.

Originally Posted by Jvac

I am amazed that you found this much time to work on the project with 2 kids around. I can barely manage a few minutes to take a dump without being pestered.

My kids are 12 and 15... so they are kinda self-sufficient. Total time investment on this project was about 30 hours.

[bmwranger]

Originally Posted by JimmyDee

2nd place goes to the Esotar 430 drivers. They are simply amazing!
Absolute perfect sound reproduction from 200Hz to 4500Hz.

Hi Jimmy, I absolutely love your write up here. I have concern with the midbass e430 is pushing, Im not farmiliar with this driver but I have to hoped that this is the 4" that finally push decent midbass? I hope Im not too optimistic, I had the Focal ES100k which I broke the VC that I never liked them, there is no midbass and its tad too bright for me, never liked the hybrid 402.

I used to make a hole to fit a 6" to take care of that in the f10, having recently traded the f10 for a new heavily discounted f30 since they are clearing the f30 stocks few months ago, like yourself, I really do not want to go through the whole custom 6", can't say I never tried. My situation is quite similar to yours, I have the e430 and eton 8" underseat sub instead of the Jehnert XE200's you had. I suppose both 8" aren't too far between them. One thing I hope you can help me is did you highpass the e430 at 200Hz/6db octave? What is your low pass for the Jehnerts? I was hoping to be able to cross the e430 at 150Hz/6db safely with the underseat sub band pass at say 60-100Hz/6db. Low passing the 8" above 100Hz annoys me.

[JimmyDee]

Originally Posted by bmwranger

I have concern with the midbass e430 is pushing, Im not farmiliar with this driver but I have to hoped that this is the 4" that finally push decent midbass? I hope Im not too optimistic.

Hate to burst your bubble, but; yeah... you're way too optimistic.
There is no 4" driver that is going to provide decent (or any amount of) midbass. They're simply not designed for that purpose.
The E430 is probably the finest midrange driver money can buy... but you won't get any midbass out of it. Sorry, laws of physics.

Originally Posted by bmwranger

One thing I hope you can help me is did you highpass the e430 at 200Hz/6db octave? What is your low pass for the Jehnerts? I was hoping to be able to cross the e430 at 150Hz/6db safely with the underseat sub band pass at say 60-100Hz/6db. Low passing the 8" above 100Hz annoys me.

The E430's are crossed between: 200Hz/12dB - 3,600Hz/24dB. They could play down to 150Hz, but it gets muddy.
The Jehnerts are crossed between 80Hz/24dB - 200Hz/12dB.
Anything from 80Hz down is handled by the GB10D2 sub in my trunk.

[bmwranger]

Originally Posted by JimmyDee

The E430's are crossed between: 200Hz/12dB - 3,600Hz/24dB. They could play down to 150Hz, but it gets muddy.
The Jehnerts are crossed between 80Hz/24dB - 200Hz/12dB.
Anything from 80Hz down is handled by the GB10D2 sub in my trunk.

Thanks Jimmy, a few weeks since I had everything put it an ran in and tuned, the E430 are in fact one of the best midrange I ever heard. I was running them through 2 channels of Mcintosh MC431 passive(using Mundorf CFC and Jantzen Silver Z-Caps) with Dyn's MD102 tweeter, crossing my tweeter at 2.4k/12dB and the E430 at 4k/12db - 200Hz/12db, Eton underseat from 200Hz rolling off, no trunk sub as space is a constrain in my 330e for another amp. Rear speakers are Eton plug and play, I play them real soft.

I was really happy with the E430 and I have to thank you for your post gave me the courage to pick up the pair, from where I came from, we didnt have the luxury to get the chance to audit or test, every purchase is practically a gamble. Having tried Focal K2P 4"(and broke the voice coil within a year twice) and Morel Hybrid 4", I wished I had the chance to hear what the Audiofrog and the Scans sounded like and will not justify if these E430 is worth the money, but end of the day it puts a smile on my face, each and everytime I get into my car.