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      11-25-2021, 01:03 PM   #1
froggman
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The car is driving me nuts

Help please...

Any advice will be highly appreciated.

So I bought my F30 from BMW in 2015.

I think around 2018/19 drivetrain warning light came on and then was on and off.

Fast-forward to 2020, I took it to a local garage and they read the code - said it was clogged dpf which was cleaned in situ, sensor was also changed, EGR looked at/changed, whatever. They also said something around the manifold had to be cleaned which they did.

Few days after, light came back on, I didn't really trust that garage. I used the car like that for a few more months, on the motorway a lot, in the hope it will regen, no luck.

After a while, I went to another garage, they said the same thing, but this time, they took dpf out to clean, again, same story after a few days.

I kept on driving the car as it was, but then, the dpf pipe started blowing off every other month, then I replace for £30 and then repeat the following month. It's now got to a stage where it's coming off nearly every week.

So 2 weeks ago, I went to this specialist dpf cleaning garage. The review of this garage is so good that I was confident they would sort this mess out once and for all.

Again, after cleaning, light was back on the next day, dpf clogged. they went a step further and looked at all injectors, they were all fine.

They then looked at turbo, that was fine too.

As we speak, they are putting the lot back and then will see what the car does. They said problem is likely the engine itself. I plan to take the car to BMW but I am unsure what to even say to them. The one time I took it there earlier this year, they were going to charge £2000 for new dpf (despite everything pointing to the problem not being dpf)

I am sick and tired.
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      11-25-2021, 01:21 PM   #2
Armaan
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Interesting read but if you had the DPF cleaned twice, why did you then take it to a third DPF specialist?

My advice would be take it to a BMW specialist, where are you based?

From my experience of a well established specialist (I've used BMW for mine and VW for my old car), they would have seen this problem before.

Typical example being my old Golf MK6 had the engine management light on - taken to 3 garages and then to the specialist I use (others were in the north where the car now is)…fault found in 20 minutes and part replaced.

BMW will charge you by the hour and I'd avoid this until the last resort.

Armaan
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      11-25-2021, 02:07 PM   #3
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What do you mean by "The DPF Pipe kept blowing off" Do you mean the little rubber tube that goes to the pressure sensor above the DPF? If so which one?

How does the car actually drive, is the engine as powerful and responsive as you'd expect?

Does it smoke when you boot it?

Did the 2nd and 3rd garage say it was clogged? Did they look through it to inspect for damage?

I would personally get some pressure readings while you're driving. You really need an OBD2 dongle and Bimmerlink ideally.
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      11-25-2021, 03:32 PM   #4
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You can get the health of the DPF checked without immediately resorting to cleaning it.

Get BMW or a decent BMW indy to take a diagnostic reading of the DPF back-pressure whilst the engine is idling. The maximum permitted value on the 330d (for example) is 35mBar. Mine was checked recently and showed 2.38mBar. Perfectly fine.

Also get the DPF soot and ash levels checked. These are calculated values based upon fuelling and other factors and will vary depending on how recently the DPF has done a regen. 15g of soot is not uncommon.

The DPF should be able to last for 200K miles if it's maintained properly, i.e. the car gets regular runs of at least 30 minutes at full operating temperature to allow a full regen to take place.

What's the mileage on the car ? Has it been remapped ?

As above, what do you mean by "pdf pipe started blowing off" ?
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      11-26-2021, 12:20 AM   #5
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Smells like a bot to me, this forum is plagued with them.
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      11-26-2021, 03:49 AM   #6
froggman
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@Armann,

Thanks very much. I was of the impession that in situ cleaning doesnt often work hence the reason I went for a second clean. There was a gap of about a year between 2nd and 3rd clean. To be honest, I think I was a bit naive just agreeing with the garages the the problem is solely down to dpf cleaning.

@Eddamoo,

Thanks, I am referring to a pipe that can be visibly seen when you open the bonnet on the left hand side, whenever it comes off, I can smell fumes within the cabin and can hear and feel the air coming out of this pipe, its abot 15/20mm in diameter.

I have driven the car for a long time with the drivetrain light and I would say its a little bit sluggish. The moment I get on the motorway and accelerate quickly, the message 'full performance not available' pops up saying egt it checked.

Whats the OBD2 dongle and Bimmerlink please? I am more than happy to do some basic checks myself if I can.

@watsey,

Thanks very much. The car is at 97k and hasnt been remapped. There's been no major work done on it since purchase from BMW in 2015, just the dpf thing that has been an issue, particularly in the last 2yrs. The garages did look at the dpf back pressure, I didnt ask for the specific readings but they all said its high. This dpf cleaning specialist where the car is sat at the moment believe something else is casuing the dpf to block, they cant seem to find any issue with dpf, injectors or turbo. They will have the car put together today. I will get as much info from them and share here later today or tomorrow.

They are sugesting car be towed to BMW to avoid clogging the dpf again (reason being that the warranty they give for dpf cleaning would not be valid).

Is dpf even that sensitive that it blocks so easily can cant be regen or something?
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      11-26-2021, 04:55 AM   #7
martin10chk
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froggman - quick question. Any coolant loss (even slight)? Has been known to invade EGR / Turbo and can cause an blocking problem.
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      11-26-2021, 05:30 AM   #8
froggman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin10chk View Post
froggman - quick question. Any coolant loss (even slight)? Has been known to invade EGR / Turbo and can cause an blocking problem.

Oh yes, there's been issues with coolant twice, I should have a record of these things. The local garage I have been using tell me what the issue is and I tell them to fix it.

Most recently, about 3/4months ago, the coolant light came one. local garage said it was a leak and they fixed it, next day, coolant was empty again so I took it back. They didnt charge me the second time but managed to fix it. I haven't had any issues with it since then

I am starting to think going to BMW to look at the entire system as a whole might be the only way out for me.

The car wont be worth much if I sell in the condition its in now.
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      11-26-2021, 06:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froggman View Post
Oh yes, there's been issues with coolant twice, I should have a record of these things. The local garage I have been using tell me what the issue is and I tell them to fix it.

Most recently, about 3/4months ago, the coolant light came one. local garage said it was a leak and they fixed it, next day, coolant was empty again so I took it back. They didnt charge me the second time but managed to fix it. I haven't had any issues with it since then

I am starting to think going to BMW to look at the entire system as a whole might be the only way out for me.

The car wont be worth much if I sell in the condition its in now.
If you do go to the dealer, try and summarise as much relevant information - and the chronology of it as you can. Its like a bit of a detective story putting all the pieces together. So if coolant loss the first time was coincident with the DPF blocking - that is relevant. Maybe that the coolant loss has goosed something.It maybe that the coolant loss is secondary to something else. But every clue helps!
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      12-06-2021, 07:20 AM   #10
froggman
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I was going to give a quick update.

The local garage that cleaned my DPF couldn't work out what is actually causing it to block so I decided to take it to BMW.

I called the BMW in Stockport and told them I was having the car towed to them. I explained that the DPF hasn't been installed back as it would block again, and that it would be in the boot of the car. They told me it was okay to bring it in.

Behold, the BMW garage manager rejected the car and said he wouldn't work on it because the DPF was missing (despite the fact that I already told them the DPF was out). Long story short, I had to tow the car back to the local garage who have now put the DPF back in, that was yesterday by the way, and by this morning, drivetrain light is back on, DPF probably blocked again.

I am confused on what to do next. I have spent a substantial amount of money trying to get to the root cause.
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      12-06-2021, 07:46 AM   #11
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When you previously say that the DPF was blocked and 'cleaned', how exactly was it cleaned ?

In one post you say it was cleaned 'in situ'.

If a DPF has become clogged up with ash, then the ONLY way of it being cleaned (that'll last more than a couple of days) is with the ceramex process, where the DPF is removed from the car and has virtually a jet of superheated air run through it for an hour or 2 to get rid of the ash - any other 'cleaning' for a clogged DPF is only going to fix the problem temporarily.

I suspect the DPF needs changing (££££)
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      12-06-2021, 08:25 AM   #12
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Out of interest have you had the EGR recall done at all?
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      12-06-2021, 09:40 AM   #13
froggman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
When you previously say that the DPF was blocked and 'cleaned', how exactly was it cleaned ?

In one post you say it was cleaned 'in situ'.

If a DPF has become clogged up with ash, then the ONLY way of it being cleaned (that'll last more than a couple of days) is with the ceramex process, where the DPF is removed from the car and has virtually a jet of superheated air run through it for an hour or 2 to get rid of the ash - any other 'cleaning' for a clogged DPF is only going to fix the problem temporarily.

I suspect the DPF needs changing (££££)
Thanks. The problem is not the DPF. Its been taken of twice to be cleaned using different methods and in those times, the car didn't last a whole day before drive train light came on. The recent garage that cleaned it said something else is clogging the dpf, they inspect the dpf with mini camera, I have their reports - pre and post cleaning. Actually, they said they cleaned it 3 times as it kept blocking almost immediately.
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      12-06-2021, 12:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froggman View Post
Thanks. The problem is not the DPF. Its been taken of twice to be cleaned using different methods and in those times, the car didn't last a whole day before drive train light came on. The recent garage that cleaned it said something else is clogging the dpf, they inspect the dpf with mini camera, I have their reports - pre and post cleaning. Actually, they said they cleaned it 3 times as it kept blocking almost immediately.
If the DPF had been thoroughly cleaned, it simply wouldn't become blocked again within a day. It's just not possible unless there are other, and significant, problems which need to be found and fixed.

It's clear that you are going round in circles with this problem. In your position I'd want the precise details including :

The cleaning process.
The chemicals used.
Photos of the diagnostics screens which show the amount of soot and ash in the DPF, as well as the exhaust back-pressure.
A full diagnostics system report including full details of any errors.

Was the turbo inspected for oil leaks, either from itself or due to oil being blown through the exhaust manifold due to badly leaking piston rings ? (this is unlikely - the engine would not be running at all well if this was the root cause).
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      01-14-2022, 12:30 PM   #15
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Hi froggman did you manage to get anywhere with this.

Randomly Youtube was playing away in the background and the following video came on. The guy was having continual DPF issues and at 5:00 in the video he mentions that the ECU is programmed NOT to regenerate the DPF if an error is present. Sounds crazy but maybe its worth a try if people are having a persistent issue:
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      02-17-2022, 02:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddamoo View Post
Hi froggman did you manage to get anywhere with this.

Randomly Youtube was playing away in the background and the following video came on. The guy was having continual DPF issues and at 5:00 in the video he mentions that the ECU is programmed NOT to regenerate the DPF if an error is present. Sounds crazy but maybe its worth a try if people are having a persistent issue:
Was about to post this as well as something else. The ECU is def set up to do this. It's a circular problem, DPF blocks causing error, once logged it will prevent regen. Get car up to temp, clear error whilst driving, request regen and it will sort it out. Need to be using the motorway really. Bimmerlink will do the trick. I use mine on an iphone with an enet cable.

The other thing to mention. Coolant, if this doesn't get up to temperature because the thermostat is broken (happened to me) the dpf will never regen and as coolant temp is a required variable to perform a regen.
Also, for clarity, was it engine coolant or egr coolant?
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      02-18-2022, 02:07 PM   #17
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I had drivetrain error on my 335 from new. Had various Dpf clean and even had a whole new drivetrain under warranty at cost of 11k ish.

It always disappeared for a while then came back.

In the end I replaced the pressure sensors at a cost of £100 or so before I sold. It never came back on (checked with new owner too!).

Try the sensors before you go throwing loads of money at it.

I posted more details of this on here if you search my threads/posts.
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      08-23-2023, 03:44 PM   #18
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Hi guys. Sorry for resurrecting this thread. I recently had a ‘drivetrain error’ on my idrive on my 640d. Fault codes showed to be issues with dpf and dpf backpressure sensor and car was also in limp mode. The Backpressure readings were extremely high (200hpa) on idle and around 750hpa on 4000 revs before changing the sensor and after changing the sensor idle was down to 20hpa and 70hpa when at 4000 rpm. These are readings when the car is stationary in park. I believe the second readings are normal however when im driving and ‘flooring it’ does anyone know what readings should be showing? At one point I saw a reading of 400-600hpa with foot planted. Is that normal? Does anyone have any idea of what what normal differential pressure readings must be. Car is driving fine now but unsure if my backpressure is still high when boosting.
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      08-25-2023, 08:26 AM   #19
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I can't tell you what is 'normal' for a 40d but when checking the differential pressure on my 30d a few months ago, it was ~250 mbar at full boost (2 bar) at around 4000rpm.

I used Bimmerlink, so not sure how accurate it is vs ISTA.

At idle it was virtually nothing. Around 5 mbar iirc.

The car had 49K on it when I did the test.

The standard DPF testing procedure doesn't call for pressure readings under load, so 'normal' is hard to canvass.
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      08-25-2023, 08:30 AM   #20
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I know it's an old thread, but just noticed this from the OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggman View Post
I have driven the car for a long time with the drivetrain light
I think whoever called it as a bot or troll was probably right.
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