[AGONXF30]

Hello gang,

Something unexpected happened today. I was wondering if some of you have experienced something similar.

I recently had a new steering rack installed in my 2012 (minor accident, required a new rack), I got an updated rack from BMW and the steering feel was heavier than with the original 2012 rack (even after the software updates), but not hugely so.

I was running BF Comp-2 A/S, which I really liked, but it was time for a new set of shoes and I got the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. I thought about the 4S, but I needed a broader temp range and the A/S 3+ have great reviews and nearly equal performance. The new tires are also 245-40-R18, so slightly shorter and a bit wider.

Immediately after install I filled them up to 38 from and 46 rear. After I went for a drive, I noticed the steering feel is now a lot lighter, in both confort and sport (I have adaptive steering), I was not expecting that. Can someone chime in? I like to think this might normal, but who know that is why I ask.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

Hello gang,

Something unexpected happened today. I was wondering if some of you have experienced something similar.

I recently had a new steering rack installed in my 2012 (minor accident, required a new rack), I got an updated rack from BMW and the steering feel was heavier than with the original 2012 rack (even after the software updates), but not hugely so.

I was running BF Comp-2 A/S, which I really liked, but it was time for a new set of shoes and I got the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. I thought about the 4S, but I needed a broader temp range and the A/S 3+ have great reviews and nearly equal performance. The new tires are also 245-40-R18, so slightly shorter and a bit wider.

Immediately after install I filled them up to 38 from and 46 rear. After I went for a drive, I noticed the steering feel is now a lot lighter, in both confort and sport (I have adaptive steering), I was not expecting that. Can someone chime in? I like to think this might normal, but who know that is why I ask.

Your tire pressures of 38 front and 46 rear seem very high.

Also, A/S 3+ and PS4S won't have "equal performance". A/S 3+ is good enough that it behaves like an entry level summer tire in the dry, but won't be able to match the performance of a PS4S when ambient temps are greater than 60F.

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Your tire pressures of 38 front and 46 rear seem very high.

Also, A/S 3+ and PS4S won't have "equal performance". A/S 3+ is good enough that it behaves like an entry level summer tire in the dry, but won't be able to match the performance of a PS4S when ambient temps are greater than 60F.

I don't want to be an asshole, but manual calls for those pressures if you drive above 100 MPH. I like the way it feels with that pressure.

Also according to TireRack the 4S and A/S 3+ have similar performance. Of course a pure performance summer tire like the 4S will edge the A/S, but that's on a track and not necessarily in everyday driving.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

I don't want to be an asshole, but manual calls for those pressures if you drive above 100 MPH. I like the way it feels with that pressure.

Also according to TireRack the 4S and A/S 3+ have similar performance. Of course a pure performance summer tire like the 4S will edge the A/S, but that's on a track and not necessarily in everyday driving.

Where in the United States are you sustaining over 100mph?

Did TireRack do a comparison between the PS4S and A/S 3+? I don't remember this comparison taking place. Are you looking at just the survey ratings for each tire? If so, they are not grouped in the same category. The performance difference in everyday driving with ambient temps over 60F - I would not describe as "edg[ing]".

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Where in the United States are you sustaining over 100mph?

Did TireRack do a comparison between the PS4S and A/S 3+? I don't remember this comparison taking place. Are you looking at just the survey ratings for each tire? If so, they are not grouped in the same category. The performance difference in everyday driving with ambient temps over 60F - I would not describe as "edg[ing]".

According to people who have used both the A/S 3 and the PSS (4S is slightly better), they are comparable in the dry.

Also, not here to discuss the tires, but the new feel.

On a side note the A/S 3+ post similar G-Force cornering, stopping, and slightly slower in the dry around the TR track (29.78 vs 30.33).

[SBM1206]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

Also according to TireRack the 4S and A/S 3+ have similar performance. Of course a pure performance summer tire like the 4S will edge the A/S, but that's on a track and not necessarily in everyday driving.

That's the funniest thing I've ever read on this board.
Sorry, I know you are not into discussing tires, just could not resist.

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by SBM1206

That's the funniest thing I've ever read on this board.
Sorry, I know you are not into discussing tires, just could not resist.

How is it the funniest? You dudes/dudettes talk out of your ass half the time without proper training or education and purely base it on feel, so when tire rack does these tests they are funny? So the same F30 they use on all the tests post similar numbers it's funny?

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

How is it the funniest? You dudes/dudettes talk out of your ass half the time without proper training or education and purely base it on feel, so when tire rack does these tests they are funny? So the same F30 they use on all the tests post similar numbers it's funny?

What TireRack test are you referring to?

This steering feel change may just be in your head.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

What TireRack test are you referring to?

This steering feel change may just be in your head.

Tire Rack only runs inter-category tests afaik. A/S 3+ is no doubt a great all-season, but it can't hold up to the same abuse as a PS4S and maintain performance.

I know that when I went from OE Cintauro P7 to 245/40 PS4S steering feel and weight increased quite a bit. Not as much as when I added the KW's, but it was apparent.

[IndotagSwizz]

holy crap where do I start...First of all the "lighter feeling" is coming from the fact that they are new tires and you have plenty of thread on the edges of your front tires therefore it feels that much lighter and easy to turn as it would with any brand new tire. Now having run multiple sets of Michelin Pilot AS3'S and AS3+'s and having just switched to the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s a month ago I can assure you they aren't close. The AS3 is a great tire and I used to love that super hard sidewall, however as we all know this made the tire loud and the ride hard which I never really cared for because I loved the tire regardless. This is where the PS4S is greatly improved, the sidewall is no longer so hard making the ride much more confortable and the tire a lot quieter, but where is night and day is those new compounds, these new PS4S's are crazy sticky not just on the dry but also on wet surfaces!!! And the handling on turns with the new Kevlar belts instead of steel ones is something you must experience to understand how amazing they are. I'm still amazed at how much the handling in my car has changed since these PS4S's, please invest in these tires you will absolutely fall in love with your car all over again

[lens]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

I don't want to be an asshole, but manual calls for those pressures if you drive above 100 MPH. I like the way it feels with that pressure.

Also according to TireRack the 4S and A/S 3+ have similar performance. Of course a pure performance summer tire like the 4S will edge the A/S, but that's on a track and not necessarily in everyday driving.

Your tire pressures are way too high, I had the AS3+ and your optimum pressures should be 35-38 max, though I run between 32/34 and 33/35 as I find its the best comfort. Too high pressures will wear the middle of the tire much quicker. I hit my max speed even at my pressures no problem, I dont know where in the US you're holding 100mph for a long time but germany I understand.

Lower your pressure unless you wanna change tires every month.

[Sea-Tac]

Take the tire pressure down for better traction. You're way to high.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

Hello gang,

Something unexpected happened today. I was wondering if some of you have experienced something similar.

I recently had a new steering rack installed in my 2012 (minor accident, required a new rack), I got an updated rack from BMW and the steering feel was heavier than with the original 2012 rack (even after the software updates), but not hugely so.

I was running BF Comp-2 A/S, which I really liked, but it was time for a new set of shoes and I got the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. I thought about the 4S, but I needed a broader temp range and the A/S 3+ have great reviews and nearly equal performance. The new tires are also 245-40-R18, so slightly shorter and a bit wider.

Immediately after install I filled them up to 38 from and 46 rear. After I went for a drive, I noticed the steering feel is now a lot lighter, in both confort and sport (I have adaptive steering), I was not expecting that. Can someone chime in? I like to think this might normal, but who know that is why I ask.

I had the same issue on my F10 M-Sport.
I took off the OEM Dunlop Sport Max runflats (with just 2k miles on them) and installed new AS3+ Michelin’s. The AS3+ have better wet traction, cold weather traction, and rough pavement traction. However, they mute the steering feel a bit and reduce steering effort/weight dramatically. With the AS3+, the steering is immediately lighter and less sharp. Sport + mode is now less weighty than Comfort mode on the Dunlop’s. Additionally, the difference between steering modes is less pronounced on the AS3+. All of the steering modes now seem more similar in weight. Not a good thing. One more downside, the AS3+ are a bit vague on center... There is a light, dull feeling for a smidge of a degree when starting to turn left or right.

Part of the difference is that I went from OEM Summer RFT to the AS3+ Allseason goflat. The other part of the problem, is that the AS3 truly has softer responses than even a regular summer tire like a PSS. The forums will have you believe that the AS3+ is a PSS with better tread wear and 4 season capability...
Not true. The AS3 is a nice tire, but is still a compromise from a good summer tire. You may even find some other all seasons out there with better responses.

You aren’t the only person to notice this behavior from AS3+...
Check out this thread http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...8#post12503718

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

holy crap where do I start...First of all the "lighter feeling" is coming from the fact that they are new tires and you have plenty of thread on the edges of your front tires therefore it feels that much lighter and easy to turn as it would with any brand new tire. Now having run multiple sets of Michelin Pilot AS3'S and AS3+'s and having just switched to the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s a month ago I can assure you they aren't close. The AS3 is a great tire and I used to love that super hard sidewall, however as we all know this made the tire loud and the ride hard which I never really cared for because I loved the tire regardless. This is where the PS4S is greatly improved, the sidewall is no longer so hard making the ride much more confortable and the tire a lot quieter, but where is night and day is those new compounds, these new PS4S's are crazy sticky not just on the dry but also on wet surfaces!!! And the handling on turns with the new Kevlar belts instead of steel ones is something you must experience to understand how amazing they are. I'm still amazed at how much the handling in my car has changed since these PS4S's, please invest in these tires you will absolutely fall in love with your car all over again

Tell us more about the steering feel of the PS4S vs AS3+...
Do you find the steering lighter on the AS3+?
Is the ps4s significantly sharper/more direct?
How does on center feel differ between the two?

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by thakid22

Tell us more about the steering feel of the PS4S vs AS3+...
Do you find the steering lighter on the AS3+?
Is the ps4s significantly sharper/more direct?
How does on center feel differ between the two?

The PS4S are a lot stickier in dry and wet, this isn't because "Michelin Magic" or opinion, is because of the new compounds used on the tire, Michelin has split the compounds into two different sections, there's a wet compound on the inner side of the tire thread specifically designed for wet surfaces, the outer threads also have a new compound designed specifically for dry surfaces, I loved the wet traction on AS3+'s but again PS4S are significantly better.

In my opinion steering is just as light I don't really find a difference in terms of "lightness" however I do feel a lot more feedback on PS4S's I believe this has something to do with the no longer "rock solid" sidewall on the tires.

To me the biggest difference between tires other than even better traction all around is the handling mid turn and specifically coming out of a turn, car feels more planted, I wish other people who also have these tires can chime in on this and maybe explain this a little better than I could but taking sharp turns now feels so confident

[technologic]

I just got the PS4S and they're pretty amazing. They're like driving on black hubabas. But my only basis of comparison is the run flats the car came with. I bet any decent summer tire is 5x better than the run flats. But now I know what I was missing.

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

The PS4S are a lot stickier in dry and wet, this isn't because "Michelin Magic" or opinion, is because of the new compounds used on the tire, Michelin has split the compounds into two different sections, there's a wet compound on the inner side of the tire thread specifically designed for wet surfaces, the outer threads also have a new compound designed specifically for dry surfaces, I loved the wet traction on AS3+'s but again PS4S are significantly better.

In my opinion steering is just as light I don't really find a difference in terms of "lightness" however I do feel a lot more feedback on PS4S's I believe this has something to do with the no longer "rock solid" sidewall on the tires.

To me the biggest difference between tires other than even better traction all around is the handling mid turn and specifically coming out of a turn, car feels more planted, I wish other people who also have these tires can chime in on this and maybe explain this a little better than I could but taking sharp turns now feels so confident

So the feel is about the same? I am just shocked that the BF Comp 2 A/S had slightly better feed back and the steering felt meatier with them.

Considering taking them back at Costco and getting the PS4S, but if the steering does not change much, I am not sure what I should do. I like the A/S 3+, they are quiet and stick very well, but the meatier feel is gone. Maybe the Comp 2 A/S is a better tire? Who knows.

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by Sea-Tac

Take the tire pressure down for better traction. You're way to high.

Did the 32/38 now. Steering feel is slightly better, but not great.

[adityab]

Ive noticed this issue as well. Road feel is ok (slightly diminished, likely because of the new tread etc). Steering weight is way down--possibly due to these tires being much lighter than the RFTs? I'm running 32/36 psi in my e90 335 xdrive.