[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ROB_S2K

The problem started when you began to look for a manual transmission in a car of that is rarely ever ordered like that. Dealers don't order what people don't want. Simple business practice. No sense in complaining about it.

Okay, but then why did Cadillac build a manual transmissioned car in the first place, if dealers would not order them to sell? That's even more of a simple business practice; not spend millions of dollars developing a version of a car no one will buy. Generally the belief then is that only enthusiasts buy manual transmissioned cars. A true car enthusiast would never by a car without first test driving it. To me your point makes no sense.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I would not buy a $40k+ car without driving the PROPER competition.

You drove a poorly optioned 335(competing with the ATS 3.6) and a good handling but low powered 320(which competes the ATS 2.5). You are liking the ATS 2.0T, good. But you still have not driven a comparable 3 series which would be a 328 Sport or MSport. Drive a ATS 2.5L-that is the base engine which compares to the 320.

If you still prefer the ATS 2.0T, great-buy it. But it is not the one to compare to the 320.

Well if you factor price into the equation I have compared competitive models. The lowest optioned ATS 2.0T with a manual trans and sunroof is about $35,000 (the way I'd order it), per the GM website is offering a $2K cash rebate making the car $33K. The 320i with a sport package is about $37K. The BMW dealer in C-ville offered me the car at $33,400 right off the bat (BMW is offering $2K rebate too on top of what the dealer discounted it already). The $33K ATS 2.0T is a far better driving car than the 320i w/ sport package. The only sticking point between the two for my needs is you can get HIDs on the BMW for $900, but Cadillac does not offer HIDs as a stand alone option (BMW didn't at first when the F30 was released). And the BMW comes with I-drive as standard and the Caddy doesn't but I could care less about either system; both are driving distractions IMO. But you are right, I do need to drive the 328i with a sport package as a comparison.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ep_83

Which trim are you thinking of getting?

I would get the Base 2.0T with a manual trans and sunroof. There's not many options you can get on it. I will be putting a s-load of miles on it per year and drive it 60% of the time on back-country roads where the handling is more important than all the electronic doo-dads. My wife will rarely drive it and therefore powered seats with memory settings are a waste of money (plus we both sit the same distance from the pedals and back reclining position anyway).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You're still not understanding why that particular dealer didn't have the car you wanted on the lot. Dealers order cars that they can sell. The first dealer you went to didn't think they could sell the manual version of the car so they didn't order any. Clearly, the second dealer does think they can sell them so they ordered them for their inventory. You call BMW owners douchebags, yet you brag about owning one for the last 25 years. Pot, meet kettle.

eh, well they used the term first... and most of them are Roundel-hounds anyway.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Clifton

The masses showing their contempt for Efthreeooh, what a surprise....

Yeah, just like the 13-page thread on when my car hit 200,000 miles...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=gentlemen

XXXOOO

[ep_83]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well if you factor price into the equation I have compared competitive models. The lowest optioned ATS 2.0T with a manual trans and sunroof is about $35,000 (the way I'd order it), per the GM website is offering a $2K cash rebate making the car $33K. The 320i with a sport package is about $37K. The BMW dealer in C-ville offered me the car at $33,400 right off the bat (BMW is offering $2K rebate too on top of what the dealer discounted it already). The $33K ATS 2.0T is a far better driving car than the 320i w/ sport package. The only sticking point between the two for my needs is you can get HIDs on the BMW for $900, but Cadillac does not offer HIDs as a stand alone option (BMW didn't at first when the F30 was released). And the BMW comes with I-drive as standard and the Caddy doesn't but I could care less about either system; both are driving distractions IMO. But you are right, I do need to drive the 328i with a sport package as a comparison.

A RWD 320i with the $1300 sport package should MSRP at $34,775. The $3500 M Sport package that's available on the 328i and 335i isn't available on the 320i so it shouldn't be $37,000. Sounds like there were more options on that 320i if the sticker was 37k.

[jlspeed29]

I actually side with the OP...

I recently went into an Audi dealership looking at the Q5 , coming from a Merc GLK and the guy was like, we cant do anything for you, Merc is lowering their standards and "giving their cars away and the Q5 will be too expensive for you"

w
t
f

So I proceeded to go forward and ask about inventory to which he sluggishly walked me around their shitty lot...it was a poor experience.....

To the OPs point, I imagine that most of us walk into the dealership with certain expectations and when the salemen prove how lousy they are ( which 99% of them are,.....sorry guys) it really sets the tone for the rest of the visit.

[ep_83]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I would get the Base 2.0T with a manual trans and sunroof. There's not many options you can get on it. I will be putting a s-load of miles on it per year and drive it 60% of the time on back-country roads where the handling is more important than all the electronic doo-dads. My wife will rarely drive it and therefore powered seats with memory settings are a waste of money (plus we both sit the same distance from the pedals and back reclining position anyway).

Mine is a base and its perfect. Like you, I don't need a ton of gadgets and had a certain budget. Btw, if you can find a 2013, I believe there's an additional 1k on the hood for a total of 3k. I think that went into effect today because I remember it being 2k last month. The programs changed today (I work for Ally financial). Like you, I test drove a 320i w/ sport package and it was nice, but when I drove the Caddilac I just knew. I don't have anything negative to say about the F30. I think its a great car. I think Car and Driver put it best when they said the if the 3 series is the Beatles, the ATS is the Rolling Stones. It just came down to personal preference. I did like the additional space in the F30. I'm trying to talk my wife into getting one so I can have both. I'd love to drive a 328i M-Sport and an ATS 2.0T with the magnetic ride suspension back to back.

[NoMore335]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

He did you a favor and saved you some time, why waste money on a Cadillac when German engineering is available?

CTS-V > Your 330 by so much it's laughable.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by jlspeed29

I actually side with the OP...

I recently went into an Audi dealership looking at the Q5 , coming from a Merc GLK and the guy was like, we cant do anything for you, Merc is lowering their standards and "giving their cars away and the Q5 will be too expensive for you"

w
t
f

So I proceeded to go forward and ask about inventory to which he sluggishly walked me around their shitty lot...it was a poor experience.....

To the OPs point, I imagine that most of us walk into the dealership with certain expectations and when the salemen prove how lousy they are ( which 99% of them are,.....sorry guys) it really sets the tone for the rest of the visit.

sounds like a TYPICAL Audi dealer experience. Seriously in 12 years of owning Audis, i have encountered some of THE worst customer service imaginable. It was so bad that I actually spoke with the President of Audi of North America last month about it on the phone----after i told them i was switching to BMW.

I think one of the BMW salespeople summed it up best when he said "Audi have let their recent success go to their heads" and he's right. Audis sell so quickly and with such little effort that their salespeople have universally become cocky asshats about their inventory. They have some of the lowest statistics when it comes to new cars sitting in the dealer lots...which is a good thing for Audi, but bad for the customer.

[CirrusSR22]

FWIW, my local BMW dealer has 188 new BMWs in stock. 187 of them are automatics. The one manual is a Z4.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, but then why did Cadillac build a manual transmissioned car in the first place, if dealers would not order them to sell? That's even more of a simple business practice; not spend millions of dollars developing a version of a car no one will buy. Generally the belief then is that only enthusiasts buy manual transmissioned cars. A true car enthusiast would never by a car without first test driving it. To me your point makes no sense.

Not every BMW dealer has a 328i manual in stock. Should members go throw temper tantrums in their showrooms.

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

FWIW, my local BMW dealer has 188 new BMWs in stock. 187 of them are automatics. The one manual is a Z4.

Exactly

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So to update this lovely and titillating thread.

I've now had the opportunity to drive an ATS. My GM-product pickup got some rodent damage to a couple of wiring harnesses last weekend. It's now at a GM/Cadillac dealer getting repaired under insurance. I got a loaner car and asked for a ATS 2.0T (with a manual of course - knowing they don't have manual loaner cars ). But they do have three ATS with manual trans in the new car inventory at the dealer; so poo any everyone who said why would I expect a dealer to have ones available to test drive.

Anyway, the loaner car I got was a 2.0T with the auto. Sorry to say, but the ATS I have drives far far, far better than the F30 335i had was tortured with last week and far, far, far better than the slowpoke 320i sport package I test drove on Friday, the day of the "incident" (where I apparently made a car salesman cry). Mind you I intend to take the manual version home for a 24-hour test drive that this dealer in Norther Virginia is offering as the manual in the Caddy behaves much better than the BMWs and that's of couse my perference.

The ATS rides like a sport sedan, the steering is a bit light for my taste but does have some steering feel in it, and the brakes are spot on sport sedan. So all in all, BMW has convinced me that my next car, after 25+ years of BMW ownership, will be a Cadillac ATS.

OH NO! The local BMW dealer will miss you so much! Who will take your place as the pompous, arrogant, superior windbag?

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by NoMore335

CTS-V > Your 330 by so much it's laughable.

Lol?

I'm not sure why you think I care.

I would never waste my money on one of those peasant-mobiles.

[F32]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

Lol?

I'm not sure why you think I care.

I would never waste my money on one of those peasant-mobiles.

Says the guy driving a 10 year old 3-series worth 4-figures.

[P1]

It's beyond me that people would still drive a daily beater in manual transmission. That would wear me out completely.

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by F32

Says the guy driving a 10 year old 3-series worth 4-figures.

Jokes on you.

I didn't pay for it.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by P1et

It's beyond me that people would still drive a daily beater in manual transmission. That would wear me out completely.

whaaaa!? i drove my 6 speed TT every day for 5 years in NYC traffic.....no issues. drove a dual clutch the past 2 years and was bored out of my mind!! am going back to a manual.....

i get more tired doing nothing than i do with activity.

[P1]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

whaaaa!? i drove my 6 speed TT every day for 5 years in NYC traffic.....no issues. drove a dual clutch the past 2 years and was bored out of my mind!! am going back to a manual.....

i get more tired doing nothing than i do with activity.

I am so easily distracted by all the screens and buttons in my car that adding having to drive a manual would do me in

For me, the perfect combo is an automatic daily beater and a manual sports car. I have an X5 so manual is not really an option here. My wife has the DCT transmission in her car, and I bet it would be really fun every once in a while in 6MT.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by P1et

I am so easily distracted by all the screens and buttons in my car that adding having to drive a manual would do me in

For me, the perfect combo is an automatic daily beater and a manual sports car. I have an X5 so manual is not really an option here. My wife has the DCT transmission in her car, and I bet it would be really fun every once in a while in 6MT.

lol...well in all fairness I've never owned a manual with many distractions or gadgets....so yeah ask me again in 6 months after I've lived with I drive and a manual! ha

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ep_83

A RWD 320i with the $1300 sport package should MSRP at $34,775. The $3500 M Sport package that's available on the 328i and 335i isn't available on the 320i so it shouldn't be $37,000. Sounds like there were more options on that 320i if the sticker was 37k.

IIRC the 320i I drove had three options: sport package, moon roof, and heated seats. Built on BMWs website that comes to $36,400 w/ destination included. IMO the ATS 2.0T is the better driving car for the money. I'm sure the BMW would kill it in gas mileage. The MPG I got for the 335i I had for a week and 1,000 miles was 30.5, which is damned impressive for how well the thing accelerated. I could imagine the 320i beating the 335i by 4 to 6 MPG. The 328i somewhere in between. I will factor that into the total ownership cost compare when I get serious about it. But a 328i minimally optioned with a sport package and HIDs is prob $6,500more than the an ATS, which buys a lot of fuel.

Thanks for taking the time to have a good discussion about the whole thing and not go into some fanboi name-calling rant. Seriously much appreciated.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by P1et

It's beyond me that people would still drive a daily beater in manual transmission. That would wear me out completely.

I'm the opposite. What wears me out is constantly having my foot on the brake in an automatic when in stop-and-go traffic. If you know how to properly drive a manual, traffic is no big deal. IMO automatics actually cause traffic jams.