01-17-2019, 06:07 AM | #45 | |
Banned
4279
Rep 7,703
Posts |
Quote:
But your original statement said that was why cars end up in negative equity as the VAT comes off the value of the car as you drive away. That is rubbish, it makes zero difference. The cost of a second hand car is all to do with supply and demand, nothing at all to do with VAT. For example, if the law was that VAT WAS charged on a used car, same as a new car, a dealer would still only be able to charge the market price for it. Which would be directly related to the price of the equivalent new car, and supply and demand. Demand will be influenced by lots of other factors, including reliability, warranty, etc etc etc. But, the price the dealer can sell it at is in no way influenced by VAT. He couldn't just add it to the price of the car, as it would be too close to the new price and no one would buy it. It would still cost the same to us, just the dealer would make less. Same as your false statement on pre reg cars. They are just being sold at market value, nothing to do with VAT. The dealer has paid the VAT as a new car yes, but he doesn't just discount the used car by that amount and write it off as a loss. Plus, a pre reg can, and often is, more expensive than a brand new car with the biggest broker discount you can find......that you're still paying VAT on. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 06:17 AM | #46 | |
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep 15,858
Posts |
Quote:
As has been said, 'supply and demand' has a big part in used prices, plus state of the market, etc. Typically a BMW will hold much more of a percentage value than a Ford, smaller cars than luxury cars, out of the door. I can remember when even with 20% VAT, trying to get a nearly new BMW (as a straight forward purchase) for less than 5% than a new car was near impossible, VAT was not wiped out on the initial purchase. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 08:13 AM | #47 |
Major
461
Rep 1,303
Posts |
Wow.... love how a thread by Zero has been derailed into an argument.... and for once it wasnt due to something he said!
|
Appreciate
2
MashinBenzin8424.00 JustChris17424.50 |
01-17-2019, 10:59 AM | #49 |
Captain
416
Rep 941
Posts |
Err... yes it is. Either through the second-hand margin scheme or at 20%. It doesn't affect the price the buyer pays, as you're just paying market price.
__________________
2019 640i GT MSport & 2016 X3 3.5D X-Drive MSport
Previous - 2016 530D MSport - 2016 335D Touring M Sport X-drive - 2014 335D GT X-Drive MSport |
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 11:54 AM | #50 |
First Lieutenant
206
Rep 399
Posts |
Perhaps it might be helpful to point out there are a few ways of buying a second hand car which can impact on VAT....
1) Trade 2) Private 3) Trade (after a period of private ownership) As I do not believe it is possible to privately buy a car without someone paying VAT somewhere along the way I am in the "it doesn't dissappear camp." It is function of the market price albeit there is no VAT payable in the specific transaction where someone has already taken the hit. I may be wrong, but that's my understanding :0) |
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2019, 12:28 PM | #51 | |
Banned
4279
Rep 7,703
Posts |
Quote:
Ok, so saying none of the VAT is charged is over simplifying. Using that scheme the majority of the VAT is not charged, in comparison to a new car. Is that better? I'd be willing to bet that through creative accounting, particularly on pre reg cars, the dealers shows a lot of sales as not making a profit at all and therefore pays no VAT. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-18-2019, 03:59 AM | #52 | |
Captain
416
Rep 941
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2019 640i GT MSport & 2016 X3 3.5D X-Drive MSport
Previous - 2016 530D MSport - 2016 335D Touring M Sport X-drive - 2014 335D GT X-Drive MSport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-18-2019, 11:55 AM | #53 | |
Barge driver
8618
Rep 12,401
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
730d/Z4C
|
|
Appreciate
1
Goneinsixtyseconds4278.50 |
01-21-2019, 03:35 PM | #55 | |
Captain
309
Rep 649
Posts |
Quote:
Q
__________________
2018 440i Gran Coupe, MPPSK, Champagne Quartz, Ivory White, Adaptive Susp., Sunroof, Active Security, CA and a few other bits.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2019, 05:02 PM | #57 |
Major
454
Rep 1,373
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2019, 05:14 PM | #58 | |
Major General
3122
Rep 5,681
Posts |
Quote:
However, to get to that position he's "only" lost the £3k cash he put into the A7 whereas to hand back the X6 and walk away debt free would have cost him £12k cash to clear the negative equity. Therefore, to get to a clean slate to start again isn't he £9k up in cash terms as a result of buying and rejecting the A7 as opposed to just handing back the X6? However, it's been a long and stressful day so apologies in advance if I've missed something obvious! |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-22-2019, 02:21 AM | #59 | |
Lieutenant
157
Rep 429
Posts |
Quote:
The 12K is based on what the dealers valuation is against outstanding finance. That valuation will be low. The X6, still has value and that has been off set by the new view vehicle. I'd like to see all the figures as we don't have the full picture. It's written as if the OP has made £9k but I don't believe that's true. |
|
Appreciate
1
Ronstein416.00 |
01-22-2019, 02:32 AM | #60 | |
General
17425
Rep 25,089
Posts |
Quote:
He's done well then.
__________________
My car made front page of Bimmerpost
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-22-2019, 02:48 AM | #61 |
Lieutenant
157
Rep 429
Posts |
I think the £12/9k is pseudo money. He has no car now and I think that's what is skewing things.
The cost of the x6 has been x per month (deposit plus monthly payments). Consider it rented. It's irrelevant what that car was worth to sell as he doesnt have any cash from it and no equity (vehicle). He now doesn't have a new car - and also no cash. So while it may appear he has made £9k, he hasn't because he currently has nada. All he's done is rent an X6 for a short while. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-22-2019, 03:41 AM | #62 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1009
Rep 1,663
Posts |
It's not "gone" as such
If the A7 list price is £60k (example), and the total discount available was £15k, with no negative equity he could have financed £45k. In reality, he's financed £57k, which is what is now cancelled |
Appreciate
0
|
01-22-2019, 03:56 AM | #63 | |
Lieutenant
157
Rep 429
Posts |
Quote:
Not miraculously made £9k or "£9k up" Last edited by Alice Coupe; 01-22-2019 at 04:37 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-22-2019, 04:12 AM | #64 |
Captain
244
Rep 723
Posts |
Personally i just look at it as though he hasn't gained £9k, he just hasn't lost £9k, which is what would have happened. As long as he is happy, that is all that matters, what we say doesn't matter a jot !
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-22-2019, 05:39 PM | #65 |
Major
454
Rep 1,373
Posts |
There was a 12k debt on the car versus its value. Choice was to trade in and transfer the debt to the A7 in the form of reduced discount or pay off the negative equity and get rid of the car either private sale or trade in.
The X6 sold at a profit for audi but not enough to cover the full 9k difference. Either way he can now get a new car fresh with no baggage or debt to move to the new car. Id say thats a win no matter how you look at it. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-23-2019, 02:14 AM | #66 | |
Lieutenant
157
Rep 429
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|