[Ajs_435d]

Seems to be a few contractors on here, which of you have had word?

I'm waiting to hear in the new year but from what I believe 25% increase in tax or off say a daily rate? And what are the implications? Are you just 25% worse off on and are there further implications such for corporation tax etc

I presume ideally you don't want to work within IR35 as you can potential go back in time and recoup tax?

Thanks

[225]

yes it's a complete mess.
I was caught out when it came in the public sector as was contracting in it then. was out of work for a while as glut of contractors appeared all at once.

IF it goes ahead then same will happen in private sector just look at the banks, cant be bothered to deal with it so blanket everyone in.
Fine in short term but then projects stop or slow dramatically so the recruitment agencies start bidding for outcomes and same people go back in at higher cost to the business.

I would rather stay out side as long as possible, avoid complications and possible retro spective HMRC reviews.

[isleaiw1]

I suspect a lot of people who were always inside IR35 and gambled are now having to comply with the law. That of course isn’t everyone and it’s definitely a case that a blanket is being thrown over everyone, wrongly - I have a consultant who is not even running a psc but I am being told he has to go because of IR35....

Just go on the payroll and enjoy the holiday pay and pension contributions...

[gr4z]

It is a joke. I just cannot see anyone actually withdrawing IR35 from the Private sector while it exists in the Public domain and if they do they will just get you via another means. My current contract is due to end end of February 2020. They are a bank and announced they are following HSBC, Barclays etc and ditching all their inside IR35 contractors from April next year.

They have just offered me a permie job...I am very tempted even just for a year or two to let everything calm down. Can always go back to contracting later although the pensions and holiday pay look a win/win

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gr4z

It is a joke. I just cannot see anyone actually withdrawing IR35 from the Private sector while it exists in the Public domain and if they do they will just get you via another means. My current contract is due to end end of February 2020. They are a bank and announced they are following HSBC, Barclays etc and ditching all their inside IR35 contractors from April next year.

They have just offered me a permie job...I am very tempted even just for a year or two to let everything calm down. Can always go back to contracting later although the pensions and holiday pay look a win/win

I gave up contracting 5, nearly 6 years ago, as the benefits of pension contributions, bonuses, etc became attractive versus the insecurity...

[SkyJawa]

Same here, very likely to make the switch back, it’s hardly worth being on the dark side any more.

[Gaz330d]

Originally Posted by Ajs_435d

Seems to be a few contractors on here, which of you have had word?

I'm waiting to hear in the new year but from what I believe 25% increase in tax or off say a daily rate? And what are the implications? Are you just 25% worse off on and are there further implications such for corporation tax etc

I presume ideally you don't want to work within IR35 as you can potential go back in time and recoup tax?

Thanks

I have been contracting 10-years. Just secured another IT contract via an agency for 6-months but my first new contract is until the end of March 2020.

Then the agency will issue an new contract that will be Outside IR35 compliant with the end client from April 2020.

If I was inside IR35 then I would just need higher day rates or jump back to a permie job.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Gaz330d

I have been contracting 10-years. Just secured another IT contract via an agency for 6-months but my first new contract is until the end of March 2020.

Then the agency will issue an new contract that will be Outside IR35 compliant with the end client from April 2020.

If I was inside IR35 then I would just need higher day rates or jump back to a permie job.

I love the fact that what matters is whether the contract is IR35 compliant and not the reality of your work!

As for higher day rates I take it you work in financial services as in the real world margins aren't high enough to just allow a significant cost increase....

I hope that having changed the rules they follow through with appropriate investigations. I reckon incorrect (ie deliberately false) self assessment forms are one issue behind govt deficits - its just as bad as benefits cheats in my world!

Good luck everyone, having to deal with this as an employer now and some of the shit stories I am getting as for reasons why contractors reckon they are outside IR35 amazes me - and just shows they have been getting away with it for too long...

EDIT to say - that's not a dig at anyone on here mainly a rant after listening to some IT contractors at the big banks who were discussing it on train last night, I don't think one of them was outside IR35, some of them had been on same role at same bank for 5 years plus (and one wasn't declaring his rental income as it was only £750 a month so not much more than rent a room allowance...)

[Gaz330d]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I love the fact that what matters is whether the contract is IR35 compliant and not the reality of your work!

As for higher day rates I take it you work in financial services as in the real world margins aren't high enough to just allow a significant cost increase....

I hope that having changed the rules they follow through with appropriate investigations. I reckon incorrect (ie deliberately false) self assessment forms are one issue behind govt deficits - its just as bad as benefits cheats in my world!

Good luck everyone, having to deal with this as an employer now and some of the shit stories I am getting as for reasons why contractors reckon they are outside IR35 amazes me - and just shows they have been getting away with it for too long...

EDIT to say - that's not a dig at anyone on here mainly a rant after listening to some IT contractors at the big banks who were discussing it on train last night, I don't think one of them was outside IR35, some of them had been on same role at same bank for 5 years plus (and one wasn't declaring his rental income as it was only £750 a month so not much more than rent a room allowance...)

Never worked in Financial Services. I only work in Engineering and Hardware contracts.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Gaz330d

Never worked in Financial Services. I only work in Engineering and Hardware contracts.

Good luck with it, you are either very good, or provide a service that few do, or both!

[Tk1976]

Currently with a public sector client. All outside contracts being switched over to inside ir35 (blanket assessments).
Rates not being adjusted for now. Lots of people leaving. Projects being set back.
If genuinely inside I get you have to be taxed like an employee. But now being charged Employers NI, apprenticeship levy, all with no benefits (holiday pay, sick pay, pension etc).
So being treated as an employee and employer for tax purposes. But not for benefits.
A right old mess 😞

[Watsey]

It's a mess, that's for sure. HMRC is losing a lot of cases at tribunal, being told that it should never have brought the cases. Their actions have been regarded as punitive, and their understanding of the legislation and the CEST tool.

If people are operating in a similar way to employees (being managed to deliver the tasks that are given to them) there's a strong case for them being treated as employees (PAYE etc) and employers behaving accordingly (employer's NI; paying holiday; providing full employee benefits).

The problem is that clients/employers are cowed and are taking moratorium decisions (blanket ban on contractors) or are taking the piss by offloading their additional costs whilst providing nothing in return.

For those of us that operate in the consulting space there's been a distinct reduction in work due to clients taking s risk-averse stance. The Parliamentary stalemate has over Brexit probably also had an effect.

IR35 will have to get resolved - it's never been fit for purpose and needs a complete rewrite. There's a lot of pressure for significant reform.

[gr4z]

Originally Posted by Watsey

It's a mess, that's for sure. HMRC is losing a lot of cases at tribunal, being told that it should never have brought the cases. Their actions have been regarded as punitive, and their understanding of the legislation and the CEST tool.

If people are operating in a similar way to employees (being managed to deliver the tasks that are given to them) there's a strong case for them being treated as employees (PAYE etc) and employers behaving accordingly (employer's NI; paying holiday; providing full employee benefits).

The problem is that clients/employers are cowed and are taking moratorium decisions (blanket ban on contractors) or are taking the piss by offloading their additional costs whilst providing nothing in return.

For those of us that operate in the consulting space there's been a distinct reduction in work due to clients taking s risk-averse stance. The Parliamentary stalemate has over Brexit probably also had an effect.

IR35 will have to get resolved - it's never been fit for purpose and needs a complete rewrite. There's a lot of pressure for significant reform.

Agreed. As a contractor for 11 years IR35 is a mess and that's looking at it from both sides of the fence. My current contract expires in March and the end client now have a blanket ban on contractors. Inside or permie from now on. A few of the contractors who have been let go already report a nightmare finding new work. One PM was told one 3 month contract had over 500 applications. What with Brexit, GE, Xmas and now a new incoming Government it's a mess. I can't see IR35 ever going just being 're-imagined'.

[AntF32]

Just finished a contract (Outside IR35) and looking to close my limited company and go perm instead as in my industry (Telecoms) it just isn't worth it on the day rate.

[AlanQS]

My main client actually uses the one agency service for all their contractors and in the New Year I will go direct with the agency and pay PAYE etc. to avoid the IR35 hassle. They set me up earlier this year as an employee, by mistake and issued a pay slip to me in which, it appeared that they were paying the Employer's NI and not me. In the New Year I will no longer have to pay employee national insurance (a benefit of getting old) so if they continue to pay employer N.I. then I won't be much worse off due to lack of N.I. bills for me.

The job isn't going to last many months more anyway but I don't want to me on the HMRC radar by the time 6th April comes round.

[gr4z]

Are the people going permie liquidating their assets? I have found these guys, mvlonline.co.uk who seem to be regarded on contractoruk.