09-15-2020, 04:12 PM | #23 | ||
Lieutenant Colonel
988
Rep 1,934
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Fabspeed Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET35 19lb MT1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Ohlins RT Millway Street | Millway Control Arm Bushings | Turner Endlinks | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2020, 05:43 PM | #25 |
Lieutenant Colonel
988
Rep 1,934
Posts |
There always seems to be a lot of discontent when people are faced with the facts that a Honda drives better than their $60K+ BMW.
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Fabspeed Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET35 19lb MT1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Ohlins RT Millway Street | Millway Control Arm Bushings | Turner Endlinks | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2020, 08:50 PM | #26 | |
Major
114
Rep 1,002
Posts |
sway bars
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2020, 09:38 PM | #27 | ||
Lieutenant Colonel
988
Rep 1,934
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Fabspeed Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET35 19lb MT1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Ohlins RT Millway Street | Millway Control Arm Bushings | Turner Endlinks | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2020, 10:07 PM | #28 | ||
Major General
4511
Rep 5,377
Posts
Drives: 2015 BMW 335i x-Drive Auto
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey/Philadelphia
|
Quote:
When my rear sway bar, shocks and springs were being replaced I was looking at rear bushings and discussed it with the BMW tech who was doing the work for me. He strongly cautioned me not to replace my rear bushings with solid or stiffer bushings because it would introduce Noise Vibration Harshness. From what I know now, I would only consider sealed monoball street bushings. |
||
Appreciate
1
Littlebear3508.50 |
09-16-2020, 06:25 AM | #29 | |
Lieutenant
230
Rep 525
Posts |
Quote:
i just spoke to my trusted local indy, to replace front+rear ARB's. 3 hours labour, £75/hr = £235. Which i'm super happy with. A decision has been made then - time to shop around for some serious arb's front and rear. i think i'll just start calling them 'sway bars' now for this forum! Any recommendations? or just go with what you've got! why did you choose H&R over others in the end? seems to be some reservations about bushes then from your side compared to others....... i guess if i'm replacing the sways then seems like the right time to do the bushes too - but i duno which ones to go for. Some disagreement here about just how much of an impact they make.... i can see both sides. Last edited by gippy; 09-16-2020 at 06:51 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-16-2020, 07:04 AM | #30 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
809
Rep 1,597
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-16-2020, 08:55 AM | #31 | ||
Major General
4511
Rep 5,377
Posts
Drives: 2015 BMW 335i x-Drive Auto
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey/Philadelphia
|
Quote:
Technically they are anti-sway bars, but easier to say just sway. What does ARB stand for? I was beginning to think it's something to order in a corner pub. I've been using German H&R sways for decades. Their engineering and manufacturing are the best. They use solid bars. Some manufacturers play up their high tech hollow tubular bars (Dinan is one) but there are photos on forums of them suddenly breaking. Not likely to happen with a solid H&R bar. Often not understood is the relationship of the ratio between the front and rear bars. If you put too heavy or too light of a bar on the front or the rear, you can significantly change the dynamics of the suspension. Suddenly the car is oversteering or understeering which can cause very bad consequences on the roadway. H&R has always understood this and matched their front and rear bars to remove unwanted body roll without changing the dynamics of the suspension. That's why I cringe when I read guys recommend only upgrading the rear sway bar on an F3x. They are doing so because of cost, because it's more expensive labor to do the front bar. Sways should always be upgraded in matched pairs unless you're on a race team or something and really understand the engineering of what's being removed and what's replacing it. It's scary to think of someone pushing a daily driver hard after a single bar swap, the car acting unexpectedly and ending up wrapped around a tree. My installer/BMW Tech was doing my H&R bars on the side so he upgraded one bar and I had to wait several nights until he had time to do the opposite bar. The dynamics around turns was very different. I didn't dare push it. Once the second bar was on the chassis dynamics were back to normal and the body roll was gone! He hadn't done H&R sways on an F3x before. The roads where he lives are a beautiful undulating curvy test track. He came back with a huge smile and said it was the best handling F3x that he's ever test driven. He had installed sways on many cars before and was expecting an improvement, but he still expressed amazement at the results of the H&R's on my F3x chassis. Compared to other aftermarket sway bars on the market for the F3x, the H&R may be the strongest. But that's what I wanted. Sways are not like springs where if you go too stiff it really effects ride comfort. If you are cruising down a country road or a super highway you can't tell what sway bars are installed. They aren't doing much when the car is going in a straight line and there's no body roll. But when you hit a turn or a high speed curve you want a strong set of sway bars to keep the body from rolling and keep the car planted and powering through the turn. H&R sway bars were designed to do that perfectly. If you read my stuff I think it's apparent that I research pretty thoroughly. I don't just read but I talk to tech's, service managers, shop owners who have much hands-on experience. Sometimes I know automotive engineers and racing engineers who are helpful. Believe me that I researched the bushings thoroughly. I know some guys who can ship them to the UK. Just PM me. Are you RWD or xDrive? Front control arms appear the same but are different part numbers? Critical to order the correct parts when you do. I personally wouldn't do sway bars and bushings at the same time. Do the sways first and drive the car to really get to know the suspension with the body roll removed. It's not like springs and shocks where the labor completely overlaps. Every time that I've done multiple changes at once, I've eventually regretted it because I can't tell what change was responsible for what I'm feeling when I drive. Then if I want to make an adjustment or an addition, what do I do because it's all mixed together by the overlapping installations? |
||
Appreciate
1
kovalchuk7112.00 |
09-16-2020, 12:27 PM | #32 |
Lieutenant
230
Rep 525
Posts |
well unfortunately, i'm struggling to source the H&R kit i need anywhere in the UK or europe. Lots of places in US...i've asked a couple what they'd charge to ship. Not paying over the odds for shipping though, so the next best solution is the Eibach kit which has a slightly softer rear - probably just as well as i'm not planning to fit the LSD until next Spring.
I'm also going with the B14 Bilstein kit, seems like it'll be nice and stiff.....just how i like it - no real proof of that, people have commented on the forum saying they are comparable to the KW V1's but stiffer. Also they seem like good value for money, i can't find much detail about the Koni sport shocks - they don't seem as 'track focused', but i could be totally wrong there........without any data i don't really know other than peoples forum comments (not exactly scientific). I've not been able to find specific details on the spring rates for these coilovers anywhere - have messaged Bilstein to comment on how much stiffer (if at all) the B14 coilover kit is vs the B12 shocks and springs kit. Total spend including labour for the sway bars comes to £1522.50. Which is bang on budget. I'll have to buy the camber plates in January as the final piece. EDIT: i contacted H&R, turns out the part number for the sway bar kit is different for europe: 33895-2 same price as the Eibach, and easily available. Not sure which sway kit to go with now.....? help?! i've just ordered the bilstein B14's today...........fingers crossed it stops the pitching. Last edited by gippy; 09-17-2020 at 03:39 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-17-2020, 11:33 AM | #33 | |
Second Lieutenant
148
Rep 204
Posts
Drives: 14 F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Miami
|
Quote:
I don't have experience with Bilstein coilovers. I didn't like their B8 shocks. But their coilover set should out perform pretty much any shock and spring combo on the track. I will say the B8's with Swift Spec-R springs was flatter on the track than my current KW V3's on full firm. Definitely a good move to get the camber plates. It's really the single most important mod for tracking (suspension wise anyway). It's the only way to get the front end turn in, traction and have you front tire's outer edge survive. Just 1 recommendation. Since you're going to have the rear subframe dropped and are paying to do it, put in some subframe bushings while you're at it to save labor. I do agree with the incremental change philosophy, but you will eventually change them any. Once you get sways and coils done, it'll be apparent how soft the rear of the car really is. At least add some Powerflex Black drop in bushings if you don't want to press them at this point. I did that and it made a substantial difference to the rear of the car staying inline for quick transitions and putting power down. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-17-2020, 12:51 PM | #34 |
First Lieutenant
156
Rep 320
Posts |
sway bars, shmay bars...you barely need those....do the bushings instead brother, you won't be sorry.
you live in a world where multiple mods can be done once...live now, save later! Last edited by brigade24; 09-17-2020 at 12:52 PM.. Reason: claritin clarity |
Appreciate
0
|
09-17-2020, 03:42 PM | #35 | |
Second Lieutenant
309
Rep 271
Posts |
Quote:
They feel stiff AF on sharp bumps for daily driving, but other than that they are pretty smooth and keep the car flat like you mentioned. I don't even feel like i really would want/need sways. my tire is a couple millimeters from front my fender and its so stiff it doesn't even rub the liner. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-18-2020, 05:18 AM | #36 | |
Lieutenant
230
Rep 525
Posts |
Quote:
im' going to plunge into ISTA to understanding how many and where located. EDIT: useful diagram below from powerflex. Looks like the ones i should change when replacing the sway bars (that make sense to change at the same time, excluding the sway bar ones as they come with the kit), are just 19 + 20 = the rear subframe front + rear bushes. The rest i can do on my own if i feel the need to, without having to do anything complicated like lowering subframes. Right? browsing around the forums, looks like i should look into - rear subframe bushings - Solid delrin https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...shing-Set.html or https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...ame-mount-kit/ https://www.akgmotorsport.com/produc...-f22-2-series/ alternative? A number of forum posts i've come across suggest that these bushes are not suitable for street, because of the additional bumps etc.. not found on a track. And therefore could deform and give me a headache. I need to find out if these rear subframe bushings will be useable for daily road use and not cause damage....... the car will be doing anywhere up to 10000 miles annually. - rear differential bushing (going to ignore for now) - front control arm bushings. (VAC monoball) furthmore, reading around, it sounds like Monoball might be my best bet due to excess wear reported on control arm poly bushes? according to a post by Watsey Last edited by gippy; 09-18-2020 at 06:49 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-18-2020, 12:30 PM | #37 | ||
Major
566
Rep 1,290
Posts |
Quote:
Avoid poly bushes, I've been there and back, unreliable and too flexible; monoball on thrust arms is the way to go. Millway is top quality and now has a street version which should be great I think, didn't exist when I changed mine. https://www.millway.se/front-control...w-f20-f30.html
__________________
2017 M550i | Sophistograu
Previous cars: 2014 F30 ActiveHybrid 3 | 2012 f20 M135i |
||
Appreciate
1
kovalchuk7112.00 |
09-18-2020, 10:37 PM | #38 | |||
Second Lieutenant
148
Rep 204
Posts
Drives: 14 F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Miami
|
Quote:
Regarding the rear subframe, I don't have experience with the different solid mounts yet so I can't really give a lot of advice there. But I'm happy with the inserts for the time, so I'll just wait until my car doesn't see daily duty before swapping. The rear diff bushings are connected to the drive train. In my experience this will bring a lot of gear whine when installed. Since there's little benefit other than slightly better throttle response for me at this point, it really isn't necessary. That may change for you with rwd and when you install an lsd. But holding off to focus on the rest of the suspension is a good idea for now in my opinion. Quote:
Bilstein B6 Shock Dynos https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1595506 |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2020, 12:06 AM | #39 | |
Major
566
Rep 1,290
Posts |
Quote:
Thanks
__________________
2017 M550i | Sophistograu
Previous cars: 2014 F30 ActiveHybrid 3 | 2012 f20 M135i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2020, 12:25 AM | #40 | ||
Second Lieutenant
148
Rep 204
Posts
Drives: 14 F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Miami
|
Quote:
|
||
09-19-2020, 02:08 AM | #41 | |
Major
566
Rep 1,290
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2017 M550i | Sophistograu
Previous cars: 2014 F30 ActiveHybrid 3 | 2012 f20 M135i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2020, 06:24 AM | #42 |
Major
114
Rep 1,002
Posts |
https://strongflex.us/e81-e82-e87-e8...553526653.html
https://www.strongflex.eu/en/bmw-e81...553526639.html these say they fit f30 as well, good company and cheap. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2020, 10:40 PM | #44 | |
Brigadier General
3995
Rep 3,530
Posts
Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Quote:
They're solid parts, but I can't really say they're worth it for a daily driver, and I think it's even debatable whether they're worth it for a track car. I didn't notice any NVH increase with them, which is nice.
__________________
-328d Wagon Build Log (with helpful reference links)
-My YouTube Channel for some of the best DIYs and in depth information Please don't PM me for suspension recommendations unless interested in paid private consultations. |
|
Appreciate
2
johnung4510.50 kovalchuk7112.00 |
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|