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      01-07-2019, 11:29 PM   #1189
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Nothing beats the look of dials, IMO.
I know I'm in the minority (just look in my signature for my choice of car)....

But Digital beats dials.

I just want a HUD overlayed on the bottom of my windscreen showing the 12 most important metrics in large digital numbers.
(Two rows of six metrics)

I'm lost without my digital speed display (that's accurate to less than 1kph). I want to be travelling at 62kph in a 60 zone. Not 61, and certainly not 63.
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      01-08-2019, 08:16 AM   #1190
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Originally Posted by xQx View Post
I know I'm in the minority (just look in my signature for my choice of car)....

But Digital beats dials.

I just want a HUD overlayed on the bottom of my windscreen showing the 12 most important metrics in large digital numbers.
(Two rows of six metrics)

I'm lost without my digital speed display (that's accurate to less than 1kph). I want to be travelling at 62kph in a 60 zone. Not 61, and certainly not 63.
Digital has its place to be sure. If your primary goal is accuracy and you want to be sure you are traveling 60 in a 60 and not 61 or 59, then yes, digital is your friend. If, on the other-hand, your primary goal is keeping your eyes on the road (or on a race track) and you need to be able to take in a large amount of generalized data very quickly, its analog all the way. For example, you have a bank of dials for oil pressure, oil temp, boost, coolant temp, and you need to be able to make sure none of them are out of bounds. You can do that with a quick glance, looking at general needle location.

For me personally, it just comes down to aesthetics. I just like the look of analog.
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      01-13-2019, 07:14 AM   #1191
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
most Tesla drivers are insufferable. Canít wait for the company to fail.
Iíve only come onto the Tesla scene and boards 5 months ago. Other than the random fanboy here and there I find that most are pretty chill. Theyíre typical car guys/enthusiasts....and like me...a lot came from boards just like these. Comments like this are what gives bmw owners a bad rep...just like the Tesla fanboys do to Tesla.
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      01-13-2019, 07:33 AM   #1192
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Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic View Post
Iíve only come onto the Tesla scene and boards 5 months ago. Other than the random fanboy here and there I find that most are pretty chill. Theyíre typical car guys/enthusiasts....and like me...a lot came from boards just like these. Comments like this are what gives bmw owners a bad rep...just like the Tesla fanboys do to Tesla.
Crazy thing is, Iím not a BMW fanboy - Iím literally the exact opposite. But Indont think anyone who drives a Tesla is what I would call an enthusiast. Most of the type, itís some pencil neck, tech soy boy and canít get enough of Elonís Musk.

Iím not going to listen to car advice from someone who was previously reviewing IPhones.

Anyhow, Porscheís new electric car is all but superior to the poorly build, cancerous growth people call the model 3 bubble and model S. Hopefully the sales take a dive, GM buys them and I donít have to hear about this shit for a while.
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      01-13-2019, 08:53 AM   #1193
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Crazy thing is, Iím not a BMW fanboy - Iím literally the exact opposite. But Indont think anyone who drives a Tesla is what I would call an enthusiast. Most of the type, itís some pencil neck, tech soy boy and canít get enough of Elonís Musk.

Iím not going to listen to car advice from someone who was previously reviewing IPhones.

Anyhow, Porscheís new electric car is all but superior to the poorly build, cancerous growth people call the model 3 bubble and model S. Hopefully the sales take a dive, GM buys them and I donít have to hear about this shit for a while.
This is an important observation. The "new app" induced Millennial populace looks at all new products based on their cell phone experience. Cars, whether electric or ICE, are not cell phones. New apps are mistaken for the speed of technology adaptation, which is an error prone thought process. Making real metal and plastic parts that work in concert with each other is far more difficult than software development. Chemistry also has its limitations.

IMO we should look at technology for doubling the efficiency of the conversion process of the energy stored in gasoline and diesel. The electric battery as a energy storage medium is pitiful compared to carbon fuel based on cost and energy density.
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      01-13-2019, 10:50 AM   #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Crazy thing is, Iím not a BMW fanboy - Iím literally the exact opposite. But Indont think anyone who drives a Tesla is what I would call an enthusiast. Most of the type, itís some pencil neck, tech soy boy and canít get enough of Elonís Musk.

Iím not going to listen to car advice from someone who was previously reviewing IPhones.

Anyhow, Porscheís new electric car is all but superior to the poorly build, cancerous growth people call the model 3 bubble and model S. Hopefully the sales take a dive, GM buys them and I donít have to hear about this shit for a while.
Well said
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      01-13-2019, 04:00 PM   #1195
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Crazy thing is, Iím not a BMW fanboy - Iím literally the exact opposite. But Indont think anyone who drives a Tesla is what I would call an enthusiast. Most of the type, itís some pencil neck, tech soy boy and canít get enough of Elonís Musk.

Iím not going to listen to car advice from someone who was previously reviewing IPhones.

Anyhow, Porscheís new electric car is all but superior to the poorly build, cancerous growth people call the model 3 bubble and model S. Hopefully the sales take a dive, GM buys them and I donít have to hear about this shit for a while
Iíve driven modded manual cars for the past 24yrs. Still have my first car sitting in storage hoping to be restored one day....75 stingray 4spd t-top. Used to be an avid auto-xer and weekend HPDE events. Built a car to run in SM class and was fairly competitive locally. Am I no longer an enthusiast now that I drive a Tesla? Not sure why you have such harsh feelings.

Anyway. I just wanted to let others know, who might be on fence, to not write the model 3 off without giving it a fair shake. I almost did....glad I didnít. Itís not a perfect car (what car really is). But as an enthusiast (or ex-enthusiast lol) itís hard to overlook what it can do as well. Looking forward to see what the competition does...especially when the roadster comes out. If anyone is interested and has questions about the performance model 3...let me know!
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      01-13-2019, 04:42 PM   #1196
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Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic View Post
Iíve driven modded manual cars for the past 24yrs. Still have my first car sitting in storage hoping to be restored one day....75 stingray 4spd t-top. Used to be an avid auto-xer and weekend HPDE events. Built a car to run in SM class and was fairly competitive locally. Am I no longer an enthusiast now that I drive a Tesla? Not sure why you have such harsh feelings.

Anyway. I just wanted to let others know, who might be on fence, to not write the model 3 off without giving it a fair shake. I almost did....glad I didnít. Itís not a perfect car (what car really is). But as an enthusiast (or ex-enthusiast lol) itís hard to overlook what it can do as well. Looking forward to see what the competition does...especially when the roadster comes out. If anyone is interested and has questions about the performance model 3...let me know!
We like driving cars and not talking about Ďfartí apps.
Glad your happy with your purchase of the IPhone Maytag 5, but most of us donít want a poorly put together, poorly engineered Ďcarí that will literally be a paperweight in 5 years.
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      01-13-2019, 05:11 PM   #1197
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
We like driving cars and not talking about Ďfartí apps.
Glad your happy with your purchase of the IPhone Maytag 5, but most of us donít want a poorly put together, poorly engineered Ďcarí that will literally be a paperweight in 5 years.
Thanks! But we have Whirlpool. Either way both have more buttons than the model 3
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      01-13-2019, 06:29 PM   #1198
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Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic View Post
Thanks! But we have Whirlpool. Either way both have more buttons than the model 3
Honestly man, nothing personal to you. I just donít like the cars, and I donít really like the fans.
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      01-14-2019, 12:02 PM   #1199
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Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic View Post
Iíve driven modded manual cars for the past 24yrs. Still have my first car sitting in storage hoping to be restored one day....75 stingray 4spd t-top. Used to be an avid auto-xer and weekend HPDE events. Built a car to run in SM class and was fairly competitive locally. Am I no longer an enthusiast now that I drive a Tesla? Not sure why you have such harsh feelings.

Anyway. I just wanted to let others know, who might be on fence, to not write the model 3 off without giving it a fair shake. I almost did....glad I didnít. Itís not a perfect car (what car really is). But as an enthusiast (or ex-enthusiast lol) itís hard to overlook what it can do as well. Looking forward to see what the competition does...especially when the roadster comes out. If anyone is interested and has questions about the performance model 3...let me know!
When, say a Cadillac ATS, beats a 3-series, the language around here immediately goes to the intangibles, such as the Caddy's interior is of mixed materials, cheap, subpar, CUE sucks, etc. The magazines add in the windows are too small and the guages aren't pretty... LOL. If the words of the manufacturer's advertising slogan is "The Ultimate Driving Machine" then the ultimate-ness of the driving experience should count first and always. So to E90 posters the interior quality is of utmost importance obviously.

Any discussion of the Model 3 should therefore involve the Model 3 interior. While sparse, it looks good. But the egronomics of the tablet interface is a joke, and the car needs the advanced semi-self driving capability just to safely operate the interface. Any 4-door sedan in this day and age should have a resonably comfortable rear seat. It's not well executed.
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      01-15-2019, 03:37 AM   #1200
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Crazy thing is, Iím not a BMW fanboy - Iím literally the exact opposite. But Indont think anyone who drives a Tesla is what I would call an enthusiast. Most of the type, itís some pencil neck, tech soy boy and canít get enough of Elonís Musk.

Iím not going to listen to car advice from someone who was previously reviewing IPhones.

Anyhow, Porscheís new electric car is all but superior to the poorly build, cancerous growth people call the model 3 bubble and model S. Hopefully the sales take a dive, GM buys them and I donít have to hear about this shit for a while.
LOL. I bet you still get paid hourly.
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      01-15-2019, 04:06 AM   #1201
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Crazy thing is, I’m not a BMW fanboy - I’m literally the exact opposite. But Indont think anyone who drives a Tesla is what I would call an enthusiast. Most of the type, it’s some pencil neck, tech soy boy and can’t get enough of Elon’s Musk.

I’m not going to listen to car advice from someone who was previously reviewing IPhones.

Anyhow, Porsche’s new electric car is all but superior to the poorly build, cancerous growth people call the model 3 bubble and model S. Hopefully the sales take a dive, GM buys them and I don’t have to hear about this shit for a while.
You don't like it, we get it. Why do you have to be such a snowflake about it?

You seem like the kind of guy that would park their pickup in front of a Tesla charger because they are insecure.

There are all kinds of automotive enthusiasts. Not all of them are out for a 911 GT3 RS (actually seems like a Hellcat / Demon is more your flavor). There are people who like, discuss, and buy Lexus SUVs, for example.
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      01-15-2019, 07:00 AM   #1202
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
You don't like it, we get it. Why do you have to be such a snowflake about it?

You seem like the kind of guy that would park their pickup in front of a Tesla charger because they are insecure.

There are all kinds of automotive enthusiasts. Not all of them are out for a 911 GT3 RS (actually seems like a Hellcat / Demon is more your flavor). There are people who like, discuss, and buy Lexus SUVs, for example.
I’m actually a Porsche guy through and through. Tesla people seems to be ‘numbers’ guys, who rattle off specs (it does zero to sixty in 3 seconds!) as if most people give a damn. I’m the guy who will never own an SUV, I enjoy cars for what’s beyond the spec sheet.

The biggest snowflakes are ALWAYS Tesla drivers, because heaven forbid you find objective fault in the cheap plastic shitbox that Elon SWEARS he created it from nothing but sheer will, you’re automatically a ‘hater’ who ‘doesn’t understand’

Yeah, I understand that the car is poorly built, ugly, cheap and the only saving grace is the AC motors, which aren’t revolutionary. Seriously, the rest of the car is sub-par, down the the garbage interior that requires a failure prone IPad to operate (or not, turning the car into a paperweight) windows that freeze close in the winter (now fixed with OTA update* to leave them open) shit fit and finish, shit paint, brakes that aren’t calibrated right (required an update) and a hilariously high price for a car that (outside of the motor) shouldn’t be sold outside of China for more than 30k.

If you want to be the beta testers for a car that obviously didn't spend the proper amount of time in development cycle, that’s cool, but don’t come at me like it’s the next best thing.

Last edited by Taskmaster; 01-15-2019 at 12:02 PM..
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      01-15-2019, 10:15 AM   #1203
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Yeah...youíre right.
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      01-15-2019, 11:01 AM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Iím actually a Porsche guy through and through. Tesla people seems to be Ďnumbersí guys, who rattle off specs (it does zero to sixty in 3 seconds!) as if most people give a damn. Iím the guy who will never own an SUV, I enjoy cars for whatís beyond the spec sheet.

The biggest snowflakes are ALWAYS Tesla drivers, because heaven forbid you find objective fault in the cheap plastic shitbox that Elon SWEARS he created it from nothing but sheer will, youíre automatically a Ďhaterí who Ďdoesnít understandí

Yeah, I understand that the car is poorly built, ugly, cheap and the only saving grace is the AC motors, which arenít revolutionary. Seriously, the rest of the car is subpar, down the the garbage interior that requires a failure prone IPad to operate (or not, turning the car into a paperweight) windows that freeze close in the winter (now fixed with OTA update* to leave them open) shit fit and finish, shit paint, brakes that arenít calibrated right (required an update) and a hilariously high price for a car that (outside of the motor) shouldnít be sold outside of China for more than 30k.

If you want to be the beta testers for a car that obviously did spend the proper amount of time in development cycle, thatís cool, but donít come at me like itís the next best thing.
Good post! I think you have summed up the Model 3 perfectly. Once you get in one, you easily see the compromises made to get the car to market. The major auto manufacturers are very good at product development from a completeness perspective. The Model 3 is incomplete in a lot of areas. No one knows the longevity of the build (quality).

It's wickedly fast in the Performance trim model, but that's about it from what I can ascertain from the various reviews. But that leads to my next point, which is the Model 3 is trying to be too many things to too many market segments. The real reason why electric cars are anywhere in the market is because politicians have dictated it so. Politicians have most people convinced that buying an electric car will cure the planet of its demise at the hand of its primary inhabitant, which is ridculous. So are true EV should be a vehicle that conserves fuel to the utmost degree possible. A 3.3 second Model 3 does not do this. The market said it wanted an electric car that gets 300 miles of range and costs less than $35K. Neither Tesla nor GM has been able to do that, and they may not ever be able to AND stay in business. As important it apparently is to save the planet, building a 3.3 second EV is a waste of engineering time, and only goes to prove that the market really wants an affordable car that gets good fuel cost/mile. As long as there are Honda Civics and the like that cost $20,000 and get 40 MPG along with a 5-minute recharge rate and unlimited range, the EV is going to have a difficult time with any serious market penetration, unless the ICE is mandated out of existence.
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      01-15-2019, 11:28 AM   #1205
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I still don't get the argument about charge time. If we charge an EV in the garage, over night, my wife never goes to a shitty gas station, in the rain, snow, or, well, ever.

300+ miles of range is greater than a week's usage for her. So even if she doesn't think of recharging it, if I lazily plug it in one night a week, things are cool.

There are all sorts of things unappealing about Tesla to me, but the Taycan, E Tron and others are going to have a significant impact over the next five years on the low to mid range of the luxury market.

It's unlikely that pure EV's will disrupt the Shitbox end of the market in the short term, especially with no or little Federal incentives. Sure, CA and other states will be able to continue strong state incentives, but that won't be universal.

Gas stations suck. The one I use has an army of homeless people and drifters who magically 'ran out of gas' at a gas station. Never visiting such a place again isn't unappealing.

No American politician is going to "mandate ICE out of existence" just as none are ever going to take guns away. That's just silly fear mongering. Many urban consumers will choose EV's but the rural and high mileage side of the market will continue to demand ICE for the foreseeable future.

It's likely that brands with little outright success at good ICE motors will take on an EV heavy or entirely EV line like Tesla. MINI and Volvo come to mind. Infiniti would probably benefit from this too.
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      01-16-2019, 04:49 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I still don't get the argument about charge time. If we charge an EV in the garage, over night, my wife never goes to a shitty gas station, in the rain, snow, or, well, ever.

300+ miles of range is greater than a week's usage for her. So even if she doesn't think of recharging it, if I lazily plug it in one night a week, things are cool.

There are all sorts of things unappealing about Tesla to me, but the Taycan, E Tron and others are going to have a significant impact over the next five years on the low to mid range of the luxury market.

It's unlikely that pure EV's will disrupt the Shitbox end of the market in the short term, especially with no or little Federal incentives. Sure, CA and other states will be able to continue strong state incentives, but that won't be universal.

Gas stations suck. The one I use has an army of homeless people and drifters who magically 'ran out of gas' at a gas station. Never visiting such a place again isn't unappealing.

No American politician is going to "mandate ICE out of existence" just as none are ever going to take guns away. That's just silly fear mongering. Many urban consumers will choose EV's but the rural and high mileage side of the market will continue to demand ICE for the foreseeable future.

It's likely that brands with little outright success at good ICE motors will take on an EV heavy or entirely EV line like Tesla. MINI and Volvo come to mind. Infiniti would probably benefit from this too.
You need to pay closer attention to the news my friend, and not CNN, rather real news that doesn't leave out information that doesn't fit the liberal narrative. The Europeans have already decided to make internal combustion illegal within the next few decades. Once the last gasp of political sanity dies in 2020 after Trump's de-election, just wait and see what the American politicians go after; it won't be the traditional American agenda. Observing and commenting on political trends is not fear mongering.
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      01-16-2019, 08:45 AM   #1207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I still don't get the argument about charge time. If we charge an EV in the garage, over night, my wife never goes to a shitty gas station, in the rain, snow, or, well, ever.

300+ miles of range is greater than a week's usage for her. So even if she doesn't think of recharging it, if I lazily plug it in one night a week, things are cool.

There are all sorts of things unappealing about Tesla to me, but the Taycan, E Tron and others are going to have a significant impact over the next five years on the low to mid range of the luxury market.

It's unlikely that pure EV's will disrupt the Shitbox end of the market in the short term, especially with no or little Federal incentives. Sure, CA and other states will be able to continue strong state incentives, but that won't be universal.

Gas stations suck. The one I use has an army of homeless people and drifters who magically 'ran out of gas' at a gas station. Never visiting such a place again isn't unappealing.

No American politician is going to "mandate ICE out of existence" just as none are ever going to take guns away. That's just silly fear mongering. Many urban consumers will choose EV's but the rural and high mileage side of the market will continue to demand ICE for the foreseeable future.

It's likely that brands with little outright success at good ICE motors will take on an EV heavy or entirely EV line like Tesla. MINI and Volvo come to mind. Infiniti would probably benefit from this too.
You need to pay closer attention to the news my friend, and not CNN, rather real news that doesn't leave out information that doesn't fit the liberal narrative. The Europeans have already decided to make internal combustion illegal within the next few decades. Once the last gasp of political sanity dies in 2020 after Trump's de-election, just wait and see what the American politicians go after; it won't be the traditional American agenda. Observing and commenting on political trends is not fear mongering.
Some people drive (live) with blinders on.

FYI. The idiotic European politicians will continue to push back their ICE ban year after year. It's not gonna happen in our lifetime and it won't happen in America.

Worst case I give up my ///M, grow a Mullet again , put on some gold chains and buy a Vette
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      01-16-2019, 09:03 AM   #1208
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Some people drive (live) with blinders on.

FYI. The idiotic European politicians will continue to push back their ICE ban year after year. It's not gonna happen in our lifetime and it won't happen in America.

Worst case I give up my ///M, grow a Mullet again , put on some gold chains and buy a Vette
Well the recent riots in France was insightful as to how the Subjects of the EU feel about incremental steps the idiotic politicians will take. No smoking first started in elevators...
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      01-16-2019, 10:28 AM   #1209
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My favorite car reviewer, Jason Camisa, recently made a post that pretty well encapsulates my feelings on the current "sport sedan" offerings... and why I'd buy a Tesla instead.

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      01-16-2019, 11:16 AM   #1210
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Ah Jason Camisa
The guy who lost his gig at motorTrend
The annoying trying too hard to be Clarkson with his unfunny antics
He once had a review with an Audi RS7 and P100 D and it was basically drive around town Tesla commercial
then they had an obligatory drag race with Porsche which proceed to walk away
Then he claims in the "REAL" world , wherever that is, the tesla would have been faster
Yeah that Camisa o.0

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