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      11-29-2012, 02:11 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by chlemaire View Post
The dealer did perform a DSC reprogram. I don't know about the brake pump activation. Not sure what that does, or what the result is if it was not done. I will check with the dealer. Thanks.
I have now had the new M-Performance brakes serviced twice at 2 different service locations of the very reputable BMW dealer in my area. The dealer is top notch, and I have been a satisfied customer there since 1996.
Well, the brake pedal still feels frustratingly spongy and unresponsive on these so-called 'Performance' brakes. The dealer said they have re-bled the entire system and performed all the required mechanical and electronic work. They said the somewhat delayed/soft pedal feel may be due to the fact that the pistons are larger and require more brake fluid displacement than the stock brakes.
As much as I love the looks of these M-Performance brakes, needless to say that I am hugely disappointed in what I perceive to be almost a degradation in braking responsiveness and performance. This may be a matter of personal preference and judgement is somewhat subjective. Most people would probably find nothing wrong with my new brakes. But I drive a BMW, "The Ultimate Driving Machine" because I enjoy and expect a responsive, dynamic experience at all levels. I expect feedback from the car on everything to be direct, precise, and tight. It has been my experience with my 2 previous BMW cars (1997 528i, 2006 330i), both purchased new. I love everything about my new 335i M-Sport Line, but I can't believe that these newly installed M-Performance brakes can't deliver a better pedal feel!
I would love to hear about the experience of other members who have done the same upgrade.
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      11-29-2012, 02:33 PM   #90
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      11-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #91
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Looks great

my 335 M sport is mineral grey with the blue calipers available as an order option in canada. I love the look and also larger rotors. The red imo looks super with the white, great car. Have fun with it. I am liking mine although I miss the manual in my previous 2010 msport 335, 8 speed is great though and the new one is currently more loaded which also adds. Great car as I say and nice upgrade. Hniel/Kingston,Ont
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      11-29-2012, 05:34 PM   #92
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my 335 M sport is mineral grey with the blue calipers available as an order option in canada. I love the look and also larger rotors. The red imo looks super with the white, great car. Have fun with it. I am liking mine although I miss the manual in my previous 2010 msport 335, 8 speed is great though and the new one is currently more loaded which also adds. Great car as I say and nice upgrade. Hniel/Kingston,Ont
Thanks!
This is my first white car. Always had darker colors before. I bet the blue calipers look great on mineral grey.
So you have the M-Sport brakes, which I believe have similar calipers as the M-Performance brakes (for which the calipers only come in red, orange and gold color), but non cross-drilled and slotted rotors. Please see my previous post about braking feel/performance. I am curious as to your experience with your brakes.
Thanks again for the post!
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      11-30-2012, 05:59 AM   #93
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I think the calipers look a bit different?

Going from my 2010 335 to this I didn't feel any brake pedal sponginess so I think could an issue on the new install, sorry to say. Others must have done the same upgrade as you, be great to hear there comments. Good luck. Hniel
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      11-30-2012, 01:20 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Hniel View Post
Going from my 2010 335 to this I didn't feel any brake pedal sponginess so I think could an issue on the new install, sorry to say. Others must have done the same upgrade as you, be great to hear there comments. Good luck. Hniel
Yes, the M-Sport calipers do look slightly different than the M-Performance ones. Yours don't seem to have a beveled contour around the pistons housing, though it's not that easy to judge from these pictures. The pictures on the first post of this thread clearly show the M-Performance brakes calipers.

Regarding the install, the dealer has now re-serviced the brakes twice. They're "functional", just not what I expected. So I'll be fine with them, but I wrote to BMW USA to try to find out more and see if anyone else had the same experience. Many people would probably find nothing wrong with my set up. It is a matter of personal preference and is somewhat subjective. So far, I've only seen one post on this f30 forum about a M-Performance brake customer also questionning the "feel" and performance of this expensive upgrade.

The other downside of the upgrade is that if one wants to use aftermarket rims for winter set up, 18" may not fit. I had to go to 19" on a TSW Brado matte black rim, fitted with Blizzak LM60 non-RFT. I would have preferred to have 18", but this model rim in 18" just could not clear the calipers. I saw your winter set up on another thread. Nice.
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      12-12-2012, 02:35 AM   #95
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I am thinking of getting these brakes eventually soon. But after reading this thread, it seems like some people do not think it is as good as advertised performance wise..

I have aftermarket 19"s and I want better braking and stopping. Do you guys think this kit will have a noticeable better stopping than stock?

It seems like these brakes are the cheapest I can find for the F30. ( Still ebay had a new set for 1700 + 400 for the back) , which is about $2100. Still expensive but it is better than the StopTechs 3K and Brembos 5K..

Anyways, I just want to know if there is better braking and stopping from the BMW M performance brakes..
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      12-12-2012, 12:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlemaire View Post
I have now had the new M-Performance brakes serviced twice at 2 different service locations of the very reputable BMW dealer in my area. The dealer is top notch, and I have been a satisfied customer there since 1996.
Well, the brake pedal still feels frustratingly spongy and unresponsive on these so-called 'Performance' brakes. The dealer said they have re-bled the entire system and performed all the required mechanical and electronic work. They said the somewhat delayed/soft pedal feel may be due to the fact that the pistons are larger and require more brake fluid displacement than the stock brakes.
As much as I love the looks of these M-Performance brakes, needless to say that I am hugely disappointed in what I perceive to be almost a degradation in braking responsiveness and performance. This may be a matter of personal preference and judgement is somewhat subjective. Most people would probably find nothing wrong with my new brakes. But I drive a BMW, "The Ultimate Driving Machine" because I enjoy and expect a responsive, dynamic experience at all levels. I expect feedback from the car on everything to be direct, precise, and tight. It has been my experience with my 2 previous BMW cars (1997 528i, 2006 330i), both purchased new. I love everything about my new 335i M-Sport Line, but I can't believe that these newly installed M-Performance brakes can't deliver a better pedal feel!
I would love to hear about the experience of other members who have done the same upgrade.

I have had them on the car since delivery, which is about 3000 miles now. They were definitely spongy at first. After beating on them since break in was complete at 1200 miles, they feel much better but not bbk great in terms of pedal stiffness. So I bought some Challenge Stainless Steel brake lines to go with it. The lines will give you that firmer pedal feel you are after. I'm installing them in the next couple weeks or so and will definietly post an update.

My only other complaint would be the unholy amount of break dust these things produce. Didn't think it was possible to make so much dust lol...
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      12-12-2012, 12:31 PM   #97
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Can bmw parts' dealer provide Blue color for selection except from the other 3 colors?
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      12-12-2012, 01:31 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlemaire View Post
I have now had the new M-Performance brakes serviced twice at 2 different service locations of the very reputable BMW dealer in my area. The dealer is top notch, and I have been a satisfied customer there since 1996.
Well, the brake pedal still feels frustratingly spongy and unresponsive on these so-called 'Performance' brakes. The dealer said they have re-bled the entire system and performed all the required mechanical and electronic work. They said the somewhat delayed/soft pedal feel may be due to the fact that the pistons are larger and require more brake fluid displacement than the stock brakes.
As much as I love the looks of these M-Performance brakes, needless to say that I am hugely disappointed in what I perceive to be almost a degradation in braking responsiveness and performance. This may be a matter of personal preference and judgement is somewhat subjective. Most people would probably find nothing wrong with my new brakes. But I drive a BMW, "The Ultimate Driving Machine" because I enjoy and expect a responsive, dynamic experience at all levels. I expect feedback from the car on everything to be direct, precise, and tight. It has been my experience with my 2 previous BMW cars (1997 528i, 2006 330i), both purchased new. I love everything about my new 335i M-Sport Line, but I can't believe that these newly installed M-Performance brakes can't deliver a better pedal feel!
I would love to hear about the experience of other members who have done the same upgrade.
that's unacceptable...
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      12-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #99
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Man... Canada gets the blue.... =(


So is everyone having issues with soft pedal feel?

I was planning on getting some because i get them at cost... =)
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      12-12-2012, 10:46 PM   #100
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Quote:
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Can bmw parts' dealer provide Blue color for selection except from the other 3 colors?
Yes, just order the calipers as spare parts.
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      12-14-2012, 02:23 PM   #101
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Yes, just order the calipers as spare parts.

But I saw the part dealer offered only 3 colors for selection which are red, yellow and orange only, where can I get blue one?
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      12-15-2012, 07:53 AM   #102
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FWIW, I have been driving with the M Perf brakes since taking delivery in Aug. Getting the new brakes installed was an issue and took longer that I would have thought, they had to get tech info from Germancy before the car would "accept" the new brakes - I even had to take it back once in the first week, but since that time no issues and now that the car is broken in with 4k miles, it brakes awesome. Apparently YMMV, with is too bad.

Supposedly, There is only one tech at my dealer who qualified/experienced enough to do the work (or so they tell me). I did talk to the tech who did the work and he did say the install was a bit of a pain, so I am wondering if people's issues are the result of a somewhat botched install.

In any event, I am happy with the choice and I made sure that my tech got a bottle of scotch for his patience and work (which, I might add, as purchased some good will going forward
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      12-15-2012, 08:16 AM   #103
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Quote:
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But I saw the part dealer offered only 3 colors for selection which are red, yellow and orange only, where can I get blue one?
Red, yellow & orange are part of the M-performance retrofit lineup. The blue one is fitted at the factory as option 2NH (i.e. M-sport braking system). For HK-spec all 4 colours are the same, only difference is the M-performance is available as a complete kit & for 2NH (i.e. blue calipers) u have to order every part separately (i.e. discs, calipers, brake carrier, pads etc.).
U just need to quote the relevant part numbers to order the parts.
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      12-15-2012, 02:19 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Red, yellow & orange are part of the M-performance retrofit lineup. The blue one is fitted at the factory as option 2NH (i.e. M-sport braking system). For HK-spec all 4 colours are the same, only difference is the M-performance is available as a complete kit & for 2NH (i.e. blue calipers) u have to order every part separately (i.e. discs, calipers, brake carrier, pads etc.).
U just need to quote the relevant part numbers to order the parts.

Can the M5 brake kits fit on my 335i with 19" wheels?

Also, if Canada can order the blue color, is it a complete kit or should order separately?
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      12-16-2012, 12:39 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMA View Post
FWIW, I have been driving with the M Perf brakes since taking delivery in Aug. Getting the new brakes installed was an issue and took longer that I would have thought, they had to get tech info from Germancy before the car would "accept" the new brakes - I even had to take it back once in the first week, but since that time no issues and now that the car is broken in with 4k miles, it brakes awesome. Apparently YMMV, with is too bad.

Supposedly, There is only one tech at my dealer who qualified/experienced enough to do the work (or so they tell me). I did talk to the tech who did the work and he did say the install was a bit of a pain, so I am wondering if people's issues are the result of a somewhat botched install.

In any event, I am happy with the choice and I made sure that my tech got a bottle of scotch for his patience and work (which, I might add, as purchased some good will going forward
That's interesting. Did you happen to ask or hear what was "a bit of a pain" to install from your tech?

Did you ask the tech if the install procedure has a TSB issued for it? It would be great to read it if it exists. I would expect that BMW will, should have, issued the TSB install procedure if it's that involved.
That way the people who have issues with their M Perf brakes can ask if their dealer has this information.
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      12-16-2012, 09:44 AM   #106
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Quote:
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Can the M5 brake kits fit on my 335i with 19" wheels?

Also, if Canada can order the blue color, is it a complete kit or should order separately?
M5 brakes? Don't think it'll be an easy task cos even for F10, it needs major major mods in order to fit them. I think u'd be better off with Brembo GTRs (if they offer kit for F30) than sth from the M5.
Blue colour at Canada cos they can order option 2NH from factory.
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      12-16-2012, 03:19 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
M5 brakes? Don't think it'll be an easy task cos even for F10, it needs major major mods in order to fit them. I think u'd be better off with Brembo GTRs (if they offer kit for F30) than sth from the M5.
Blue colour at Canada cos they can order option 2NH from factory.

I asked a local dealer today that I can install the M5 front brake but the disk would be downsized to 382mm, and he suggested to use brembo F40 as rear disk and running with 345mm disk, this F40 will spray same blue color as front calipar, with M logo too. Cost about US$5,410
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      12-16-2012, 08:39 PM   #108
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I have a brand new set of the m-sport calipers in blue with new pads and performance rotors that I'm selling. I'm moving to something bigger. One caliper has some marks on the back by the mounting holes from partial test fit while an adapter was drawn up, but the caliper body, especially the visible parts are mint.
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      12-16-2012, 11:15 PM   #109
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So what is the consensus from everyone that has these brakes?

Should I get the M Performance brakes? Or save up more money for Stoptech or Brembos?

I honestly want to go cheapest route possible, hence the M performance brakes...
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      12-16-2012, 11:56 PM   #110
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So what is the consensus from everyone that has these brakes?

Should I get the M Performance brakes? Or save up more money for Stoptech or Brembos?

I honestly want to go cheapest route possible, hence the M performance brakes...
The M Performance brakes are made by Brembo.
Which way to go depends on what you're trying to achieve.
If you're after better/shorter distance braking, then get better tires.
If you want better brake 'feel' I think the "cheapest" route would be to go with steel brake lines.

The larger M Performance brakes are not likely to give better braking performance for a daily driver. For someone who tracks they may be worth it as the larger rotors will likely dissipate heat better resulting in less tendency for brake fade. For daily driving the stock brakes are fine, they just lack in feel.


From what others have been saying it seems the problem is not in the caliper nor rotor. The "soft" pedal has to do with the brake booster and the brake lines.
The other thing that can cause a soft pedal would be air in the lines. Maybe there is a specific technique to bleeding this brake system and that's what that one tech was referring to when he said it was a pain to install.
Air is compressible, so if there is air in the line you would push the brake pedal but the caliper won't respond as quickly or firmly as the brake booster has to compress that air as it's trying to compress the fluid.

If the brakes are bled properly and there is still a soft pedal, then another option is to try steel brakes lines, as one poster said. By their nature rubber lines can expand, so as you push the pedal and the fluid compresses the rubber lines may be expanding too much resulting in having to push the pedal harder/further to get the required pressure into the caliper, because as the line is expanding so is the volume requiring more fluid before proper pressure is applied. Steel lines don't expand, pressure is applied quickly. People who have installed steel lines always say the brake pedal feel and modulation improves.
If the system is bled properly and there are steel lines but soft pedal remains, then it's likely due to the brake booster and it's bore and flow capacity, barring a problem with the booster not building proper boost.

This is why I think it's important to find out if there is some unique or different method to bleeding this brake system. Maybe the traditional method isn't getting the job done and there is still air in the system.

Personally, I don't like the new brake system in the F30. It feels softer than my 135i with the 6 piston Brembo's. Those brakes had a nice feel for stock brakes. There was little brake pedal travel and initial bite happened quicker.
Then, modulation was better as it required more brake pedal pressure instead of more brake pedal travel to get more braking.
That's what it feels like with the F30 brakes. There is too much "dead" brake pedal travel before initial brake bit, then to get more brake force you push the pedal harder, but instead of more brake force there is more pedal travel with it. It results in feeling like the brake system is soft.
There is plenty of brake power in this system. With the better tires the F30 has shown very good and short braking distance. The problem is simply that it doesn't "feel" as strong as they are.

The other pick nit I have is that when I release the brake pedal often it will return to it's stop point with a "thunk" as it hits it's stop point. I experienced this in every F30 I test drove so it's not unique to mine.
Part of the overall complaints that the new 3 series has become "softer" is the brake system. It just doesn't feel as solid and quick as before, and the 'thunk' gives an impression of 'cheap' imo.
Softer, less feel steering, softer base and sport suspension, softer brake feel, it's no wonder a lot of people are saying the 3 series has become "softer" or "too soft".
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