[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

The issue with EVs and winter range is the byproduct of combustion, heat is quite useful in winter for us humans. EVs have to burn electricity to generate heat to warm humans, inadditon to the physics of batteries of being less efficient at discharging when cold and wet roads add to rolling resistance.

All this means short winter trips kills range, this was the range estimate of our car today with just under 65% charge. My old Leaf use to barely manage 40 miles in winter with 100% charge.



However this is the 7th winter we've had an EV as our main car, if you preheat the car from mains electricity prior to a long trip efficiency is actually within 10% of summer.

Our 'self charging' Lexus hybrid did 3000 miles last year versus 12,000 miles in the Tesla, that's how much 'range anxiety' we have these days with our EV.

Interesting.

Shame they don't fit a dashboard on all their cars

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

Difficult to get exact figures it seems, as Lexus, for example don't quote, but I've seen a few articles suggesting only a couple of miles EV only. The benefit is an better overall MPG than petrol only. For me, a PHEV with a range of 20-30 miles means no local air pollution at all, and would work for a lot of the journeys we do (which mainly seem to be taking the kids to dance lessons and parties ). If you are doing more daily miles, where you can't do battery alone, EV or Self Charging probably makes more sense.

Toyota/Lexus hybrid engines are efficient because they use the Atkinson combustion cycle rather than Otto cycle. The electric motor is there to make up for a lack of torque with the Atkinson cycle. They aren't designed to run in EV mode at all.

The term 'self charging' was made up by Toyota to make it look like they were advancing with EV drivetrains when the reality is all Lexus/Toyota hybrids are using the same technology as found in the original Prius that launched some two decades ago.

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Toyota/Lexus hybrid engines are efficient because they use the Atkinson combustion cycle rather than Otto cycle. The electric motor is there to make up for a lack of torque with the Atkinson cycle. They aren't designed to run in EV mode at all.

The term 'self charging' was made up by Toyota to make it look like they were advancing with EV drivetrains when the reality is all Lexus/Toyota hybrids are using the same technology as found in the original Prius that launched some two decades ago.

Interesting. Explains why you can't find EV only range figures

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Don't worry, there's plenty of us happy to stand back and let you early adopters run with it for now - it'll be a little while before I'll be fighting you for a charger!

There is nothing 'early' about getting an EV now. Nissan launched the Leaf in 2011, thats over a decade ago. The original Tesla roadster came out in 2009 and is now collectors item worth roughly double their initial list price. The people who bought EVs back than were early adopters, getting one now is just chasing low BIK rates .

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

getting one now is just chasing low BIK rates .

Exactly. Realistically if that incentive wasn't there I would hedge my bets on most of them people actually taking an ICE car over a BEV.

I think we've got a bit of a way to go yet, and i'm still not sold on electric being the ideal solution long term.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

I think we've got a bit of a way to go yet, and i'm still not sold on electric being the ideal solution long term.

I think by the time some you guys come around to the idea of EVs I'll probably be in a nursing home having bed bath given to me by a robot controlled by an AI mastermind

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I think by the time some you guys come around to the idea of EVs I'll probably be in a nursing home having bed bath given to me by a robot controlled by an AI mastermind

Nah i'm well off that

I do think it'll be interesting though, especially now more people are adopting it. I think it'll start to show some of the downsides, cause lets face it most people before the incentive came in actually wanted an electric car and would live with the 'lifestyle' choice. At Christmas I believe they were fighting over charging points at our local shopping centre.

I'm not against the technology, it's more we're stepping backwards. When you can do 400/500 miles in a mid sized saloon at motorway speeds now, but in a BEV you're having to charge up at least every 200 miles in a step backwards, at 30 minutes at a time. If we can cut down the charge time to say 15 minutes, and a battery that actually does 500 miles then it could be viable, but at this moment in time I don't see it myself.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Nah i'm well off that

I do think it'll be interesting though, especially now more people are adopting it. I think it'll start to show some of the downsides, cause lets face it most people before the incentive came in actually wanted an electric car and would live with the 'lifestyle' choice. At Christmas I believe they were fighting over charging points at our local shopping centre.

I'm not against the technology, it's more we're stepping backwards. When you can do 400/500 miles in a mid sized saloon at motorway speeds now, but in a BEV you're having to charge up at least every 200 miles in a step backwards, at 30 minutes at a time. If we can cut down the charge time to say 15 minutes, and a battery that actually does 500 miles then it could be viable, but at this moment in time I don't see it myself.

I also need to charge up every 200 miles

That's 3 hrs driving for me and I for sure need a pee and snack. Easily eating up 25mins.

It's not for everyone of course and my mileage is down massively thanks to WFH

I still don't see me ever driving 400-500 miles in a session without a little stop though but agree this is beyond most EVs but that coming very soon from Lucid Air and maybe the tech trickles down.

I doff my cap to all the 400-500 drivers out there.

[sahajesh]

For me (Sheffield to London, just inside the A406), I could do the journey in a BEV without stopping but when I get to my family/friends, I wouldn't be able to charge without trailing cables on the pavement.

That leaves me charging at the nearest supermarket just to top up to allow us to go out.

While this carries on, I don't have any interest in a BEV.

Now if Sadiq follows through on totally penalising all non-BEV and/or a tax for non-London registered cars, I may reconsider.

By then however (if it happens), my X5 PCP will be up and there will be some incremental gains in battery capacity.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

There is nothing 'early' about getting an EV now. Nissan launched the Leaf in 2011, thats over a decade ago. The original Tesla roadster came out in 2009 and is now collectors item worth roughly double their initial list price. The people who bought EVs back than were early adopters, getting one now is just chasing low BIK rates .

Obviously depends on how you define it but even after the increase in sales last year I think EV's account for only 1% of cars on the UK roads and for me anyone in the first 1% of buyers is an early adopter!

And personally I think it's still relatively early days for EV's and a fair bit of water is yet to go under the bridge with their development. So I still tend to think of people jumping in now as relatively early adopters - could be wrong but I believe the choice and capability of EV's will be quite different by the end of the decade from what it is today so I'm in no rush to jump on the bandwagon just yet. But I do take your point on BIK rates and concede I might feel a bit different if I was still a company car driver!

[KRS_SN]

1. 3 months ago we were due to have a relaxing break in a lodge,was due to get away at 6pm Friday only blip youngest daughter took not well which meant 3 trips to and fro to paeds hospital at speed around 90 miles and once we got the all clear at 10pm we decided to still go and drive 220 miles to our holiday no break while kids were asleep.
2. 2 weeks ago decided to get a puppy round rip was 260 miles to see it. within minutes of seeing the ad decided to jump in car go with family and have a good pup now before someone else could have reserved it.
so bev right now not for us,cars have to live around how we live life not vice versa. the performance aspect is a red herring thrown in to entice but if its only performance that I wanted them ev would not be out of the question (unless I took the tube which gives a similar feel

[sahajesh]

JustChris Did you reply to my post? I can't see it and you're not on my blocked list.

[Pobsey]

Whilst I like the running costs of a BEV I’m still not convinced, I tend to do long trips ideally non stop and don’t fancy turning up in a city I’m not familiar with with no range, meeting on a building site with no charging point, then head home. The 330d works so well for that, the ability to do 600+ on a tank means a trip to Edinburgh and back can be done on one tank with a stop at the father in laws for an over night stay.
A colleague has his model 3 LR delivered today with his f30 320d going back tomorrow, we’re looking at him as the trial to see how it pans out

[Tengocity]

A friend of mine has revised his company's fleet to almost entirely electric, upping the allowances so that everyone can get at least a Model 3. He now has dozens of his team (mix of field engineers and account managers) running them as their ICE company car leases end. So he is getting a real world cohort to see how it works in real life.

His early observations -

Everyone loves their Tesla - the car and the network. Of any car they seem to get closer to their published ranges.

Audi e-tron - only a few have gone for these, and all have been disappointed, mainly due to getting nowhere near expected ranges, and struggling to get to 200 miles.

Jaguar i-pace - happy with car, and range ok, but charges too slow

A couple have Taycans - absolutely love them!

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

A friend of mine has revised his company's fleet to almost entirely electric, upping the allowances so that everyone can get at least a Model 3. He now has dozens of his team (mix of field engineers and account managers) running them as their ICE company car leases end. So he is getting a real world cohort to see how it works in real life.

His early observations -

Everyone loves their Tesla - the car and the network. Of any car they seem to get closer to their published ranges.

Audi e-tron - only a few have gone for these, and all have been disappointed, mainly due to getting nowhere near expected ranges, and struggling to get to 200 miles.

Jaguar i-pace - happy with car, and range ok, but charges too slow

A couple have Taycans - absolutely love them!

Son in law has changed jobs - no flash new sporty car every 5 months (not that he has been able to get much for the last year anyway!) and now designing a new car scheme for new company that is tax efficient for both employee and employer - needless to say its going to be predominantly BEV with the odd PHEV for those who do large work mileage.

I know he was looking at a Taycan but I think a Model 3 Performance will be the one he ends up with if Tesla play ball on costs. Otherwise an i4 M50 gets talked about...... he'll be doing 160 miles each way regularly come summer and some other longer journeys but my daughter will have another car for emergencies!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Son in law has changed jobs - no flash new sporty car every 5 months (not that he has been able to get much for the last year anyway!) and now designing a new car scheme for new company that is tax efficient for both employee and employer - needless to say its going to be predominantly BEV with the odd PHEV for those who do large work mileage.

I know he was looking at a Taycan but I think a Model 3 Performance will be the one he ends up with if Tesla play ball on costs. Otherwise an i4 M50 gets talked about...... he'll be doing 160 miles each way regularly come summer and some other longer journeys but my daughter will have another car for emergencies!

Welcome back sir!

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Welcome back sir!

Thanks, who knows how long for

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

JustChris Did you reply to my post? I can't see it and you're not on my blocked list.

Yes but I deleted it, nothing controversial in it just CBA.

I'm out of the conversation. Good luck everyone.

👋🏻

[Tengocity]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/b...k-transforming

Interesting article here about Tesla opening thesuperchargers up to other cars. Sounds like lots of Tesla owners aren't so happy, as the ration of Superchargers to cars is now lower in the Uk than globally.

So here's an interesting question... if the Tesla network becomes fully open, then who would still choose them over other options?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/b...k-transforming

Interesting article here about Tesla opening thesuperchargers up to other cars. Sounds like lots of Tesla owners aren't so happy, as the ration of Superchargers to cars is now lower in the Uk than globally.

So here's an interesting question... if the Tesla network becomes fully open, then who would still choose them over other options?

Yes, I would. Objectively the Tesla M3 would still most strongly match my needs and wants.

I think there's a real risk that the Supercharger becomes flooded with other vehicles, thereby removing the advantage to Tesla drivers (big charging network; widely available), but Tesla can easily turn off access to non-Tesla vehicles if availability becomes a problem.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Yes, I would. Objectively the Tesla M3 would still most strongly match my needs and wants.

I think there's a real risk that the Supercharger becomes flooded with other vehicles, thereby removing the advantage to Tesla drivers (big charging network; widely available), but Tesla can easily turn off access to non-Tesla vehicles if availability becomes a problem.

Reading the article I am not sure it's going to be as simple as that for them once they do open it up.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/b...k-transforming

Interesting article here about Tesla opening thesuperchargers up to other cars. Sounds like lots of Tesla owners aren't so happy, as the ration of Superchargers to cars is now lower in the Uk than globally.

So here's an interesting question... if the Tesla network becomes fully open, then who would still choose them over other options?

Indeed it will happen eventually. Thing is though it will be a rip off for non Tesla drivers that will push them away to some extent. The Ionity network for example. If you have not recently bought your car and have a discount or what not it can be … similar cost to fill as an ICE car. I've seen rumours of £0,65 kWh which is a LoL.

Would it stop me. Doubt it, I just need a change and not a big fan of the design direction BMW has gone inside and out.

Going for Tesla

- Value pretty much every option included and makes it very easy. Pano, adaptive cruise, 5 heated seats & wheel, electric wheel adjustment, memory seats, remote heating, comfort access, surround view, adaptive cruise etc all useful things I'd like are included
- Performance for the price. With all the range anxiety this seems to have been missed again. £55k and circa £4500 48x£500 lease for a M3LR +AB = 0-60 car in 3.7s.
- SC network
- Car keeps updating. The day you get it is probably the most basic it will ever be
- Ease of use and service. I'm not sure about this bit but I'm sure traditional makers are still prescribing more of a service interval Vs Tesla where it's minimal

Against
- Eeeeeeeelon :
- Subjective looks
- Fit and finish (does seem to have improved as per my original test drive message)
- Annoying owners 😂👍🏻