[DaveA]

(Apologies in advance - Long Read)

Following my initial ruminations on what to do at the end of my PCP, as discussed here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1587596

… and having pondered various options, I have finally decided to go for a VW Golf GTi 245 Performance DSG as the replacement for my 340i…

At the end of the day, however I sliced it, a new G20 is quite a bit more costly to buy and own compared to the F30 (at the moment, anyway)… Times have changed since I bought the F30 340 in 2016. I'd now have to be finding an extra £500/year for tax, paying more interest on my finance, and also paying off more capital on my finance due to having lower GFV's etc… and, coming at a time when reducing costs is, for me, more the aim than spending more, it really was not an option, even with a 320… As soon as you start running figures, its immediately obvious..

Plus, I am not in the slightest bit a fan of the G20 grille… and the very poor selection of colours available still…

I did look into keeping hold of the F30 340 after the end of the PCP, but the cost of doing so was going to be significantly more than I really wanted to spend this time around… factoring in things like refinancing, a set of tyres, warranty, connected services, the likely servicing costs, insurances, taxes etc etc etc etc… (you might guess there's a big spreadsheet in operation)…

Sure, it was less/month than the first three years were, but, even so, not as much less as I thought it might be (40/50 quid p/m only, if that)… but then adding warranties and connected services etc etc is not the cheapest… So I went off that idea as I felt I could get better value doing something else..

… and so, if it is not a G20, and not to be keeping my existing F30, then I am now happy to move on from the 3 series (at least for the time being). I can always do something else for a few years and take a view on the 3-er again, next time, maybe when we have had an LCI and deals are better…

So…

I looked at the 1-series as a possible cheaper/smaller alternative… But, even then, and even considering the considerable discounts being offered on 140 (in particular), I still found the overall costs quite high… Finance at 4.9%, higher band road taxes (for the spec I would be looking at), insurances, servicing etc etc all added significant sums… Plus, some of the options I really wanted were not available on the 140… Adaptive cruise with traffic jam assist has been really, really helpful to me in the last few years and is a "must have" for me on a car now… and many I did want that were available were extra…

Based on the sorts of specification I was looking for, an M140 would have worked out at something like £640/month for all usual running costs except fuel (over 48 months)… Still cheaper than any G20 I looked at, but still a sizeable sum… and not dissimilar to keeping on the F30…

When I looked at the Golf, many of the extras you pay for with BMW were included as standard. Yes, discounts are less in percentage terms, but you can still readily get 10/11% or so and you don't have to stick an extra £6k plus in extras onto the basic price… and then I looked at things like financing rates, road tax, insurance, servicing costs etc etc… all less...

Overall, over a similar period, the Golf would work out at something like £520/month.. That's total running costs, not just PCP... To compare like-for-like with the 1-er figures above...

So the BMW is 23% more costly to keep than the GTi..… That's a lot…

OK, so the golf is "only" 245 hp compared to the BMW's 340 hp, but, genuinely, 245 is plenty enough for the highway these days… Both are run-out models, so no real difference there… In fact, in that respect, VW's evolutionary tendencies have tended to make older golfs look less old than BMW's have made their older models look…

To be honest, a 125i M Sport would have been a more like-for-like comparison to the 245 Golf, engine-wise, but I understand these are not available any more, so I also ran a comparison with a 120i… and that, for a similar spec to the Golf, worked out at only £10/m less than the 140 (bigger discounts and GFV on the 140 clawed back most of the savings on price and running costs), still 21% more than the Golf…

All in all, the Golf looks a much better value proposition than the 1-series…

I toyed with a few other alternatives but, at the end of the day, I kept coming back to the Volkswagen…

The Audi A3 suffers from not having anything between the 150hp engine and the S3/RS3, so there is no value sweet spot if you want something a little more than the 150 but not wanting to pig out on the S3/RS3 (although they are discounting quite a bit at the mo')… I will caveat by saying that there does seem to be a 190 hp version but, for some reason, it is not currently available on the configurator… Still a fair chunk down on the Golf, though…

The Golf R is too much, I think… As is the S3/RS3… and take you into different insurance/tax/running costs etc…

I looked at the Mazda 6 as a saloon alternative, which is incredible value (a lot cheaper than the Golf, even), and loaded with kit, but I could not get comfortable in the driving seat and it has (to my eyes) poor infotainment (my android based hi-res media player would not connect and the whole system looks about 3 or 4 versions behind BMW)…

.. and the Hyundai i30 N Performance, which is a real hoot, with lots of kit, but still feels a trim level down on the Golf, I wondered how hard wearing it might be, and also does not yet have the DSG box… But, if you can find somebody who will do you a deal, there is a ton of fun right there for £25/26k if you want a manual box…

So, the Golf was the one I always came back to, and so, today, subject to one or two things, I agreed to sign on the dotted line for a Golf GTi and I am rather happy with that outcome…

As for BMW, although I am open-minded about future choices, I think, unless any significant changes occur, that will likely be an end to my dalliance with modern BMW's… (still thinking about buying a cooking 70's or 80's one for a runabout. though…

Truth is, I think (in common with some other manufacturers) they are now over priced for what you get (this will be the weakness of the pound against the Euro, in part, I think) and as the competition are positioning themselves to take business from them (think Mazda) that price premium becomes a tougher sell…

I liked my three F30's, but I always felt my various Porsches (before) were better in build and quality than the BMW's, and two of those Porsches were comparable money to the BMW's…

A VW may not be a 5 series (but a 1 series is not a 5 series), but with a VW, you can look at the premium over, say, the Skoda/Seat options and see where the extra money goes…

People talk about the straight 6 and the rear wheel drive as differentiators… But I had a RWD car with a 3.8 flat 6 Metzger engine that completely eclipsed any thoughts you might have about the BMW six and its RWD experience, when it comes to passion and emotion and delivery/capability…

.. and then considering that Mazda can fully load a 6 with a deal likely around £26k to the BMW's £46k… and VW can put loads of kit on a GTi before extras… The "buy all options" BMW's are, well… Pricy options…

I shall watch how BMW adapt in the coming years with interest. I still retain a strong affinity to them as a company and a brand. It's just I have slightly gone off the current product.

… and I suspect I am not the only one.

A few thoughts on the 340

The 340 was a very nice car to own. Not a classic, and maybe not so much better than a 330i, in hindsight (the 6 is nice, but the 4 is fine, also, at this level, and would be an equally appealing proposition), but it did the stuff I wanted it to do effortlessly and frugally. and in comfort.. I also liked it a lot more than either oil the diesel engined 3-ers I had…. Looked good, strong colour for the shape and a really big spec, compared to many, made it a nice car to have…

But it was a lot of £££ for "nice"…

Truth is, it was probably an extravagance I can now do without and no longer wish to fund… and a Golf GTi is hardly a hardship…

ps - anybody who may be interested in the departing 340, I am happy to share the spec on here and point you all in the direction of the dealer who will having it in the coming weeks… I am sure they would be delighted to hear from you…

pps - still waiting for Alfa to call back two and a half months later…

[mikeoz]

That must of been some spec for £640 for a 140i? Seem a hell of a lot?? Much more than when I costed one?
But you can't go wrong with a Golf really. The GTI will handle better on a B road for sure.
You will enjoy it.

[NotGotABimmer23]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

That must of been some spec for £640 for a 140i? Seem a hell of a lot?? Much more than when I costed one?
But you can't go wrong with a Golf really. The GTI will handle better on a B road for sure.
You will enjoy it.

Car + tax + insurance I assume

[ZeroFx]

life gets expensive when you start adding must have options to a car.

Im glad ive never used adaptive cruise because id be stuffed once i got used to that.

These poor residual values and expensive finance rates make buying new cars hard

[goodbyalfa]

£520 per month for a golf gti you say...
My 440 is around £480. I know where id be spending my money...

[M40CCA]

My vw caravelle is £702/mth

Makes the 1 series look cheap Haha

[M40CCA]

you wont be disappointed with the golf I've had a few different ones and always loved them
One of the best all round cars out there

[dopper99]

Yeah, I got a new Golf R a couple of months ago, brilliant car - for what it is and price point. A hoot to drive.

Although I wouldn't have dropped to a GTI. I wanted 4WD and a few more horses . But the GTI is lighter and handles even better, allegedly.

The GTI TCR could be a sweet spot for some as it has the R engine but lighter with FWD and slightly firmer handling. But the cost is not far off an R.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

That must of been some spec for £640 for a 140i? Seem a hell of a lot?? Much more than when I costed one?
But you can't go wrong with a Golf really. The GTI will handle better on a B road for sure.
You will enjoy it.

Bear in mind that is total running costs over 4 years, not just pcp...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by goodbyalfa

£520 per month for a golf gti you say...
My 440 is around £480. I know where id be spending my money...

Total running costs for 4 years... everything except fuel... and gfv...

Deposit
PCP
Insurance
Tax/RFL
Servicing
Extended warranty and connected services
MOT
GAP Insurance
Allowance for tyres..

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by kylemacca01

Car + tax + insurance I assume

... and servicing, extended warranty for year 4, 4th year connected services etc..

[Russbmw]

Just curious, do people consider the connected drive stuff essential, if so which subscriptions? Only asking because I have only the ongoing free stuff and was perusing the store earlier (after seeing the apple play debacle thread), and whilst it'd be nice to give some of the idrive more functionality, can honestly say that the only thing of any real interest or potential usefulness to me is the rtti, and even that is debatable.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Yeah, I got a new Golf R a couple of months ago, brilliant car - for what it is and price point. A hoot to drive.

Although I wouldn't have dropped to a GTI. I wanted 4WD and a few more horses . But the GTI is lighter and handles even better, allegedly.

The GTI TCR could be a sweet spot for some as it has the R engine but lighter with FWD and slightly firmer handling. But the cost is not far off an R.

I looked at the TCR but didn't feel that, for me, it was worth the extra money over the 245... and I'd have gone for the Hyundai if it were just for the fun factor...

The R is a very nice piece of kit but, again, just more than I would be after...

Funny.., Since 82 or so, I have wanted a GTi, when I was running my 1,100 cc 45 hp Mars Red Golf C...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Just curious, do people consider the connected drive stuff essential, if so which subscriptions? Only asking because I have only the ongoing free stuff and was perusing the store earlier (after seeing the apple play debacle thread), and whilst it'd be nice to give some of the idrive more functionality, can honestly say that the only thing of any real interest or potential usefulness to me is the rtti, and even that is debatable.

I liked the RTTI better than the TMC traffic, but it seems a marmite choice for many, and quite a few folk dislike it... I like lots of the remote app (but this may be free)... Much if the rest I could live without, but I would subscribe to RTTI

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

life gets expensive when you start adding must have options to a car.

Im glad ive never used adaptive cruise because id be stuffed once i got used to that.

These poor residual values and expensive finance rates make buying new cars hard

I know the Mazda is not a BMW, but looking beyond the badge, there was a stunning amount if kit on it for (after a deal) £26k or so... and good finishes... just your not getting the latest infotainment and it has an engine that is powerful enough and no more... but it was a huge difference in price over a G20....

Look at how much a fully loaded CX-5 is compared to an X3 with comparable spec...

But I digress, your points about the cost impact of extras, pcps etc, are broadly the same as mine...

[thescouselander]

Originally Posted by DaveA

I know the Mazda is not a BMW, but looking beyond the badge, there was a stunning amount if kit on it for (after a deal) £26k or so... and good finishes... just your not getting the latest infotainment and it has an engine that is powerful enough and no more... but it was a huge difference in price over a G20....

Look at how much a fully loaded CX-5 is compared to an X3 with comparable spec...

But I digress, your points about the cost impact of extras, pcps etc, are broadly the same as mine...

My previous car was a fully loaded Mazda 6 - as you say it was great value and the diesel engine actually seemed a good bit more pokey than the numbers suggest. Pity they don't do a more powerful petrol engine. The infotainment system is definitely the weak point and in need of update.

It's a big car though maybe too big for some.

[KCH1984]

Good choice - the Golf is a great all rounder.

I've posted this before, but when I was running the M135i and the Wife had her GTD, I always felt it was the more resolved car. Yes it didn't have the 3 litre straight 6, but everywhere else it was better...gearbox, steering, damping, standard kit, etc...basically all the things that matter for a daily. Mate has the previous mk7 GTI PP, you won't be disappointed.

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Total running costs for 4 years... everything except fuel... and gfv...

Deposit
PCP
Insurance
Tax/RFL
Servicing
Extended warranty and connected services
MOT
GAP Insurance
Allowance for tyres..

Some people really should read OP better since you’d already explained that

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Some people really should read OP better since you’d already explained that

To be fair, I did, but I also edited the post a little later to make it clearer, so benefit of the doubt to the responders...

What is interesting is how just looking at a PCP monthly can be quite misleading as to how much the true cost of ownership is when you add in ownership costs like this... The Golf, for instance.. The insurance is half, road fund licence less, service costs a little cheaper, etc etc... which compounds...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by KCH1984

Good choice - the Golf is a great all rounder.

I've posted this before, but when I was running the M135i and the Wife had her GTD, I always felt it was the more resolved car. Yes it didn't have the 3 litre straight 6, but everywhere else it was better...gearbox, steering, damping, standard kit, etc...basically all the things that matter for a daily. Mate has the previous mk7 GTI PP, you won't be disappointed.

Yes, I mean, the Golf and the Audi A3 set many standards for the hatchback market... The BMW feels a little quirky in some ways... I don't dislike it, but it's not a car to spend more money on than a Golf... even with the 6 cyl engine...

It's funny, people who bemoan 4 cyl engines... My old E30 M3 had the S14 4 cylinder engine... and that was some engine...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by goodbyalfa

£520 per month for a golf gti you say...
My 440 is around £480. I know where id be spending my money...

I got a pretty good deal on my 340.. Taking deposit, plus PCP, plus Insurance, road fund licence and required servicing (ownership costs) worked out at a total equal to £780/month over 36 months…

…. and that is a car that pre-dates the higher tax bands, so a more recent car, you can add £37.50/month for years 2 and 3 to that, taking it over £800/month…

A new G20 330 M Sport to similar spec would be likely in the order of £100/m to £150/m more (when I last looked)…

Refinancing my nearly 3 year old F30 at the end of the PCP and continuing running it for another few years would work out at roughly £630/month (there is less finance, but more running costs, so it comes down, but not as much as you might think)…

The Golf I am taking will be, as I say, £520/month or so…

So, if your ownership costs are down at £480/m, you have an absolutely cracking deal and it’s no wonder that’s where you are sticking your money… May I ask where/how you managed that because I am sure that I will not be alone in looking into that as an possible alternative (I have time before I sign my deal)…

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

My previous car was a fully loaded Mazda 6 - as you say it was great value and the diesel engine actually seemed a good bit more pokey than the numbers suggest. Pity they don't do a more powerful petrol engine. The infotainment system is definitely the weak point and in need of update.

It's a big car though maybe too big for some.

I really liked the Mazda.. In the top spec, the interior is a very nice place to be and the engine was not underpowered... Just they are never going to make the more powerful versions the like of which the German manufacturer's do...

Some strong colours...

The compromise, as we have both recognised, is that some of the kit is a few generations behind BMW, which, to be fair, is how they hit the price point...

But in a market where BMW's are becoming more expensive to own, Mazda are being very clever in positioning themselves beneath in order to catch falling customers... They offer a lot of product for the money you pay... and always seem to have keen financing deals etc...

I would genuinely suggest anybody looking at an X3 (but without X3 money) look at the CX-5 in a good trim...

Many of us will, in coming years, face the conundrum of being unable to keep paying for these products we like and swill start to look around...