[L555BAT]

I recently changed my E90 330i M Sport for a F36 430i Gran Coupe M Sport. The handling and driving dynamics of the car are disappointing, and I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts and experiences.

The car was obviously hugely different on the test drive (especially the auto gearbox). So much to get used to, and only flat straight roads anywhere near the dealer, that I concluded the car is ok and I'll get used to it.

The suspension is standard code 704 M Sport (non-adaptive), wheels are 18". Tyres are run-flat Pirelli Cinturato P7 front and Bridgestone Potenza S001 rear (on my old car I had Michelin PS4 non-runflat 17"), however I doubt tyres are to blame here.

Basically, even in sport mode, the car handles like a boat and doesn't inspire confidence. It can't be trusted, I'm probably going 10-15mph slower and still feeling more nervous. I'm amazed that in one generation of progress, the sport mode in the 3/4 series has become so comfort-oriented compared to the single do-everything mode in the E90. Yes I've checked that my sport mode is configured to include both drivetrain and suspension.

The body control is poor. Compressions and yumps in the road will throw the car up and it takes a while to settle its weight back down, the E90 wouldn't get thrown so much, and would come back down much quicker. An inside mid-corner bump will fling the weight up and sideways, the E90 would more just absorb it. All these behaviours have scared me on a few occasions or triggered the DSC despite me adapting my driving to avoid them - when the weight of the car isn't settled then grip and steering is affected so you could leave the road.

When cornering it doesn't feel pressed into the tarmac both ends like the E90; instead it feels dead when turning in and then rolls. It doesn't give me the sense that it could easily accommodate turning more if the corner tightened. So you have to leave a much larger margin of error with your speed.

Does that match other people's experience?

I've never modified a car, and really don't want to, but I have some knowledge of suspension from bikes. I'll guess it needs the ride height lowered perhaps an inch, stiffer springs, and more compression and rebound damping. Really I'd probably sooner replace it than go down this avenue.

[Skyhigh]

This topic has been discussed many times. It also matters whether you have pre-LCI or LCI model, the latter being improved.

Your sentence "Basically, even in sport mode ... " is confusing - you state you have non-adaptive suspension, meaning it doesn't really matter what mode you are in - it will be the same.

I suggest you read the relevant threads in this section:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=460

I for one cannot complain from the suspension of my F36. I have LCI and adaptive suspension though, which may be the key. It is certainly not a 911 -level, but I find it quite good in both Comfort and Sport.

[L555BAT]

I have pre-LCI.

That's interesting about adaptive - there's a big difference to how the car handles in sport mode, yet when I decoded the VIN it says I only have 704. I've now found this post (thread https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1429383) which explains that what the sport mode does without adaptive is just the steering feel. Maybe that's all I'm feeling.

I'll have a look around there, thanks.

[Skyhigh]

Correct. Adaptive M Suspension has 2 modes - comfortable and sport(stiff), with both being adaptively adjusted on the go. The standard M suspension (704) is a singe mode, single stiffness, classic suspension and is not affected in any way by the driving mode.

All you feel is the steering wheel and throttle sensitivity.

I suspect the fact that you are pre-LCI explains it. Most complaints about the suspension of F3x are related to pre-LCI models.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

This topic has been discussed many times.

+1, I bet the first complaint about the F3* versus E series came from whoever was the first former E9* owner to take delivery of an F3*. It's probably been noted a few thousand times that E9* owners who loved them should have looked at the F22/23. It's all a matter of perspective. I have zero complaints about my F34, but before it I drove a Nissan Altima.

[freakystyly]

Can confirm, F22 w/ EDC coming from lightly modded E90. It's not necessarily worse handling but different. I imagine an even heavier version would be that much more floaty than this is. The most glaring difference has been the electronic steering rack.

[oem.plus_440gc]

I have a 2019 (LCI) 440i GC XD with adaptive suspension and I don't really have any complaints about the suspension. I came from a modified Subaru WRX and really enjoy the adaptive suspension. Much more comfortable than my WRX in comfort mode and similarly stiff in sport mode. I'm on 19inch 225 square all season runflats which don't inspire much confidence in the grip department (coming from 18inch 245 square summer sport tires non runflat) however that will be changing soon. Just noticed a bubble on my sidewall. Will be upgrading to a proper staggered 255/225 non runflat tire.

TDLR: adaptive suspension on the F36 feels good to me

[L555BAT]

I lusted after an F22 for a while years back, but nowadays the small boot opening and lack of rear doors would be too much of a compromise.

Give it a year and maybe I'll test drive some LCIs with and without adaptive.

[floridaorange]

BMW realized they could sell their cars to anyone who just wanted to drive around in a car that had the perception of the ultimate driving machine, while saving money by cutting quality driving dynamics. They passed that cost to the buyer (hence these forums) to modify their car if they wanted more performance.

The M series became the cars from the factory that inspired confidence only. Unfortunately that's the way of the world now.

[L555BAT]

^ I'll be speaking (politely) to my local and supplying dealers about this at some point. Not that I expect them or the BMW company to care, as for every person like me lost there will be others gained. Honestly if the options available when I next go looking aren't significantly better, I will be done with BMW. If alternative companies don't have the answer, at least I'll be spending less money.

In hindsight, I've honestly not had a more enjoyable drive since the one in my E90 taking it in for trade-in.

[oem.plus_440gc]

Any reason not to go back to an E90? You'll probably end up losing a bit on a trade-in on the new car, but if you truly dislike the new driving experience that much, might be worth taking a small hit to get back to a car you truly enjoyed.

[L555BAT]

E90s are too old and high mileage now. I held onto mine for as long as I could, precisely because I knew it was the last of its kind. I had a few inconveniences reliability-wise with it the past year or two, which led me to miss out on some things and waste time.

I wouldn't say I dislike it (I love everything except the driving dynamics), it's just that I don't like it that much. Can't see myself keeping it for many years. When I got my E90 I was frequently out for country drives for the first few months, or took the cross country routes to avoid the motorway; this car doesn't make me want to do those things.

[sapphire black]

I actually have had 2 440s with and without adaptive suspension

My first was a 2018 (LCI) xdrive with standard suspension 18in runflats, second was a 2019 rwd with the track handling package 19in runflats

The difference between the two was night and day, i very much felt the car had shed 500lbs. In the 2019, comfort mode was both flatter and more comfortable than the 2018 - and theres a lot to be said about the steering feel difference between the xdrive and the rwd. Sport mode is somewhat stiffer, but not too different from comfort.

The most cost effective improvements you can make are

1. Ditch the runflats (im getting ps4s as soon as im done moving)
2. Eibach pro kit (springs+sways)
3. (Optional) dinan bump stops to prevent bottoming out for comfort

1+2 would probably add up to around 3k USD with installation - koni special active shocks are also very well received for an additional 600. Coilovers are another option but will cost more than the springs/sways/shocks combined, but you may save that difference with shorter installation

[Icarium81]

Why in the world would they sell you a car with 2 different sets of tires??? 90% of the shops around here won't even let you leave if you've got mismatched tires on your car.

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by Icarium81

Why in the world would they sell you a car with 2 different sets of tires??? 90% of the shops around here won't even let you leave if you've got mismatched tires on your car.

Why not? That's pretty normal and perfectly fine, unless it is an xDrive.
Of course the two on every axle need to be the same, but not necessarily between axles.
Many people change tires axle by axle, based on their wear.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by L555BAT

^ I'll be speaking (politely) to my local and supplying dealers about this at some point. Not that I expect them or the BMW company to care, as for every person like me lost there will be others gained. Honestly if the options available when I next go looking aren't significantly better, I will be done with BMW. If alternative companies don't have the answer, at least I'll be spending less money.

In hindsight, I've honestly not had a more enjoyable drive since the one in my E90 taking it in for trade-in.

You haven't mentioned the mileage, is it possible the 704 suspension is getting baggy?

Not sure what BMW or the dealer will be able to do about your model. They have moved on and the G2x models are all set up with different suspensions. Remember BMW got bad publicity on the hard and 'overly firm' ride on E9x M-sport models and softened it down a bit in the F3x models. Many forget there was an M performance passive suspension option, (at cost), for those wanting a firmer setup in F3x models.

Personally I wouldn't want (or run) mixed tyres, that could be upsetting the handling balance. Some mixes just don't work together. You'll only know that by changing to one brand and spec'.

[Icarium81]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Why not? That's pretty normal and perfectly fine, unless it is an xDrive.
Of course the two on every axle need to be the same, but not necessarily between axles.
Many people change tires axle by axle, based on their wear.

Yes you can change tires after you've bought it but I've never seen a dealership car sold with mismatched tires front and rear.

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by Icarium81

Yes you can change tires after you've bought it but I've never seen a dealership car sold with mismatched tires front and rear.

It's not a new car, you hopefully realise. That's how the dealer got it, that's how it is resold - "as is". Do you expect them to throw out 2 sets of good tires just to put a single set of brand new tires on a second hand vehicle? Maybe at Ferrari they would.

[L555BAT]

You haven't mentioned the mileage, is it possible the 704 suspension is getting baggy?

No, 30k miles.

Not sure what BMW or the dealer will be able to do about your model. They have moved on and the G2x models are all set up with different suspensions. Remember BMW got bad publicity on the hard and 'overly firm' ride on E9x M-sport models and softened it down a bit in the F3x models.

I'm not expecting them to do anything about this one, just make my one small voice heard about what their customers think - none of us will influence anything if all we do is complain on internet forums.

Many forget there was an M performance passive suspension option, (at cost), for those wanting a firmer setup in F3x models.

That's interesting; being an official option, it's on thing I might just consider as an upgrade.

About the tyre mix between axles, I agree it's not ideal and could be a problem with some mixes. It is however pretty normal on used cars, and in my experience neither axle has what I want, so that's a full set needing replacement - I'll do it when they're worn, unless I think it's going to be a big improvement that justifies the cost.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by L555BAT

No, 30k miles.

I'm not expecting them to do anything about this one, just make my one small voice heard about what their customers think - none of us will influence anything if all we do is complain on internet forums.

With a low mileage, will be unlikely dampers are worn out, unless a very heavy life.

Agree on feedback. My point on mentioning the F3x suspensions, we are already one generation on. Complaints on the F-series would have already influenced any decisions on the G2x platform. I'm sure it's feedback on the G2x platform that will now influence the future development direction. Just like it was feedback on the E9x models which influenced the F3x suspension setups.

[L555BAT]

Plot twist - I think I actually have an LCI car.

Thought I had pre-LCI, because I have the circular LED headlights and physical dashboard gauges.

However, after decoding the VIN - the production date, model code, and development code "MUE" (i.e. LCI) suggest it's an LCI. I have the LCI tail lights and latest iDrive.

[Skyhigh]

The physical gauges don't mean anything, as the digital have always been an option, not a default thing.

But an LCI should not have circular headlights.....!? Which Modelyear is the vehicle?