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      03-27-2017, 04:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixNeo View Post
Is RWD more safe than FWD?
FWD is more predictable for most drivers (eg most drivers can handle a understeer situation better than an oversteer situation)
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      03-27-2017, 04:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixNeo View Post
Is RWD more safe than FWD?
FWD tends to be a bit safer since it understeers rather than oversteers (less likely to have snap oversteer).

RWD should be fine in the rain unless you push the car hard - i.e. turn off traction control or floor it in a turn

Edit: someone beat me to it
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      03-27-2017, 05:20 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MatrixNeo View Post
Is RWD more safe than FWD?
That's a very broad question. Generally, the general pubic is better off with FWD because of it's predictable characteristics. RWD is more for performance and results in very different driving dynamics. As far as safety its AWD>FWD>RWD. That doesn't mean FWD is better. Its just easier for most drivers who have no more than the average level of driving skill.

It sounds like you are a first time driver. Take them both out on a spin and no matter which you decide, take a beginning/intermediate handling school. BMW has one just for teens that is highly rated. Its more than just the boring stuff they make you do in Drivers Training, but still with an emphasis on control and safety. I wish I had taken it back when I was a first timer. It would have probably saved me from two accidents, one where I did a 360 and one where I just lost control on a wet road.
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      03-27-2017, 06:50 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixNeo View Post
Is RWD more safe than FWD?
That's a very broad question. Generally, the general pubic is better off with FWD because of it's predictable characteristics. RWD is more for performance and results in very different driving dynamics. As far as safety its AWD>FWD>RWD. That doesn't mean FWD is better. Its just easier for most drivers who have no more than the average level of driving skill.

It sounds like you are a first time driver. Take them both out on a spin and no matter which you decide, take a beginning/intermediate handling school. BMW has one just for teens that is highly rated. Its more than just the boring stuff they make you do in Drivers Training, but still with an emphasis on control and safety. I wish I had taken it back when I was a first timer. It would have probably saved me from two accidents, one where I did a 360 and one where I just lost control on a wet road.
Yeah, especially if you're into chicks and not dudes your "pubic" will be happier with FWD and not having all the power in the rear.

Hahaha, sorry epic auto correct fail. And I have the sense of humor of a child.
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      03-27-2017, 07:30 PM   #27
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Personally I'm not a fan of torque steer and that is a well-known problem in Audis especially with higher-powered engines, and especially without quattro.
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      03-27-2017, 08:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Yeah, especially if you're into chicks and not dudes your "pubic" will be happier with FWD and not having all the power in the rear.

Hahaha, sorry epic auto correct fail. And I have the sense of humor of a child.
Yeah, I should clarify that I prefer a RWD or AWD vehicle. The only FWD car I would even consider is a GTI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y0tsuya View Post
Personally I'm not a fan of torque steer and that is a well-known problem in Audis especially with higher-powered engines, and especially without quattro.

I wouldn't even bother getting an Audi without Quattro. I don't think they even offer FWD in any of their cars that have more than a 2.0 TFSI under the hood. All 3.0Ts and up are AWD standard.
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      03-28-2017, 05:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Yeah, especially if you're into chicks and not dudes your "pubic" will be happier with FWD and not having all the power in the rear.

Hahaha, sorry epic auto correct fail. And I have the sense of humor of a child.
Yeah, I should clarify that I prefer a RWD or AWD vehicle. The only FWD car I would even consider is a GTI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y0tsuya View Post
Personally I'm not a fan of torque steer and that is a well-known problem in Audis especially with higher-powered engines, and especially without quattro.

I wouldn't even bother getting an Audi without Quattro. I don't think they even offer FWD in any of their cars that have more than a 2.0 TFSI under the hood. All 3.0Ts and up are AWD standard.
Dude check your original post. I was just joking with you about the general PUBIC not pubLic haha.

Seriously though RWD or AWD are best depending on conditions. AWD that's rear biases especially. Fwd is a compromise that can be very good in certain applications, save on fuel etc. I don't however believe I'm massive HP FWD cars. Had the discussion with head of AMG when front biased CLA AMG was launched. At high power inherent disadvantages become more pronounced and can get scary. 500hp torque steer? No thank you.
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      03-28-2017, 07:33 AM   #30
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I drove BMWs for years but switched to Audi a couple of cars back. There's just not the great gulf between the two brands that there once was.

The biggest issue with the current 3er (imo) is that it's old. The exterior and interior design wasn't great when it was introduced seven years ago, and it's just gotten older. The A4 is new in all respects. Although I think the new A4's exterior styling is incredibly boring for a new design, its interior design is light years ahead of the BMW.

From a driving dynamics perspective, I think that the S4 is a better car than the equivalent 340, especially when spec'd with Audi's trick sport (torque vectoring) diff. However, at the lower end, the A4's nose-heavy, FWD architecture doesn't compare with the 320's or 330's RWD architecture.

So it really depends on where you want to compromise. If sporting driving dynamics is more important to you and you're looking at the lower end of the range, I'd buy the BMW (and hold my nose every time I got into its horrible interior). If the overall package - smooth drive, comfort, style - is more important, I'd go for the Audi.
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      03-28-2017, 08:27 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
I drove BMWs for years but switched to Audi a couple of cars back. There's just not the great gulf between the two brands that there once was.

The biggest issue with the current 3er (imo) is that it's old. The exterior and interior design wasn't great when it was introduced seven years ago, and it's just gotten older. The A4 is new in all respects. Although I think the new A4's exterior styling is incredibly boring for a new design, its interior design is light years ahead of the BMW.

From a driving dynamics perspective, I think that the S4 is a better car than the equivalent 340, especially when spec'd with Audi's trick sport (torque vectoring) diff. However, at the lower end, the A4's nose-heavy, FWD architecture doesn't compare with the 320's or 330's RWD architecture.

So it really depends on where you want to compromise. If sporting driving dynamics is more important to you and you're looking at the lower end of the range, I'd buy the BMW (and hold my nose every time I got into its horrible interior). If the overall package - smooth drive, comfort, style - is more important, I'd go for the Audi.
woowww !!!, you drove lot of bimmers (saw from signature), what made you to switch to an A6?
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      03-28-2017, 01:47 PM   #32
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OP, have you considered Mercedes too?
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      03-28-2017, 02:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmonkey View Post
A4 is nice, but shares its platform with the Passat. S4 is better.

The F30 platform is really good, but it has flaws to be sure. Wait for the G20 to come out and see how it compares.
IIRC, the new A4 uses the MLB longitudinal platform, which has the A4 as the smallest car on that platform, and the A6 and A7 use the flexible platform as well.

The 2017 US Passat uses the old transverse platform.
The current Euro Passat uses the new MQB transverse platform.
The Passat is not on the same platform as the A4.

There is a China market VW Phideon that uses the MLB platform.

It's interesting how some people say that "this Audi uses a VW platform", rather than saying "this VW uses an Audi platform".
The MLB longitudinal platform was design and first used for Audi.
The VW group owns Audi and thus it will share parts, but so what?
That doesn't mean an Audi is a more expensive VW.
I look at it the other way, a VW can be a lower cost bargain Audi.

VW makes some really nice products, as well as making economy products, because the VAG group is a HUGE auto manufacturer.
Economy of scale is a smart thing, especially when a platform is a great one and can be scaled and modified easily to build different models upon.
By having the economy of scale VAG can afford to put in all that high tech interior into the new A4, along with it's excellent performance and sell it a lower cost than BMW can.

The Audi A4 has stepped up, and the current BMW F30 is at the end of it's life cycle, and it wasn't that great from the start compared to what BMW can do. That's why a lot of us are really hoping the BMW steps back up to the plate and hits a home run with the new G20 chassis 3 series coming next year. BMW NEEDS to make the new 3 series better than great, it needs to be fantastic at least in terms of driving dynamics, imo.
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      03-28-2017, 02:34 PM   #34
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OP, have you considered Mercedes too?
+1. If OP likes a refined interior and quiet cabin,he may prefer the luxury end of the spectrum. A sport package C would still be a fun car but would be cushier and more refined in some respects, at the expense of handling and sportiness. But if you're considering FWD or AWD then pure sportiness isn't your only priority.
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      03-28-2017, 03:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by englishguy84 View Post
+1. If OP likes a refined interior and quiet cabin,he may prefer the luxury end of the spectrum. A sport package C would still be a fun car but would be cushier and more refined in some respects, at the expense of handling and sportiness. But if you're considering FWD or AWD then pure sportiness isn't your only priority.
This was vehemently true for all previous generations of the C class, but (all bias aside) the latest iteration of the C43 is a whole different animal.

If you haven't driven one, check out this article (http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s4/19065/a...-sports-saloon) and take one for a spin at your local dealership.

Edit: Just noticed that OP was talking about the A4 and not the S4. I'd probably opt for an A4 sedan over a C300 sedan as well for reasons englishguy84 mentioned above.
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      03-28-2017, 08:12 PM   #36
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woowww !!!, you drove lot of bimmers (saw from signature)
Ya, old guy here. Been driving BMWs since my mid-20s. I love the brand and still consider myself a "BMW Guy."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixNeo View Post
what made you to switch to an A6?
Back in the day, there was a pretty clear lineup on the sports car <> luxury car continuum. Merc was to the right with rock-solid luxury. BMW was to the left. No one built the sports car of business saloons like they did. And Audi was in the middle. Beautiful, avant-grade style with driving dynamics betrayed by chasses that started life as common front wheel driver-ers.

Merc's done a good job getting sportier. Younger people don't (necessarily) feel like an old man driving one. But BMW really shifted hard to the left, more luxury-oriented side. And Audi really developed quattro with a primary purpose of enhancing driving dynamics. Foul weather traction is just a nice added benefit. Meanwhile, BMW's xDrive was all about foul weather traction and sapped out anything that was left of the sport in its business saloons.

But I hung on until BMW jettisoned the manual on pretty much everything other than the 3er. I tried to get into that car, but it was just too much of a step down. That got me to looking much more closely at Audi. And others too. If you had posted this thread on a BMW board 10 years ago, you would have been (correctly) shouted down. Mercilessly. The even-keeled responses here show how much that has changed.

Anyway, like others I have high hopes for the next gen 3er. I'm hoping for an M340 that will really compete with the S4.

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Last edited by hinckley; 03-29-2017 at 07:04 AM..
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      03-28-2017, 11:02 PM   #37
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Ya, old guy here. Been driving BMWs since my mid-20s. I love the brand and still consider myself a "BMW Guy."



Back in the day, there was a pretty clear lineup on the luxury car <> sports car continuum. Merc was to the right with rock-solid luxury. BMW was to the left. No one built the sports car of business saloons like they did. And Audi was in the middle. Beautiful, avant-grade style with driving dynamics betrayed by chasses that started life as common front wheel driver-ers.

Merc's done a good job getting sportier. Younger people don't (necessarily) feel like an old man driving one. But BMW really shifted hard to the left, more luxury-oriented side. And Audi really developed quattro with a primary purpose of enhancing driving dynamics. Foul weather traction is just a nice added benefit. Meanwhile, BMW's xDrive was all about foul weather traction and sapped out anything that was left of the sport in its business saloons.

But I hung on until BMW jettisoned the manual on pretty much everything other than the 3er. I tried to get into that car, but it was just too much of a step down. That got me to looking much more closely at Audi. And others too. If you had posted this thread on a BMW board 10 years ago, you would have been (correctly) shouted down. Mercilessly. The even-keeled responses here show how much that has changed.

Anyway, like others I have high hopes for the next gen 3er. I'm hoping for an M340 that will really compete with the S4.

I thought a base line suspension C300 coupe that my dad had as a loaner was better than a base 428i that I test drove. I bet with the 704 suspension vs the MB sport suspension it would be different, but 10 years ago, that would never be the case. I bought a 2 because to me it was the last BMW that made good on their core promise of driving dynamics, but it can feel a little sparse compared to the 3.
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      03-29-2017, 07:03 AM   #38
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I bought a 2 because to me it was the last BMW that made good on their core promise of driving dynamics, but it can feel a little sparse compared to the 3.
YES!!! The 2 represents what BMW used to be!
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      03-29-2017, 09:17 AM   #39
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There is a third option: wait for the G30 3 series coming out in 2019. With a good bit of weight loss, new interior, improved steering, b58 straight six engine,. an s5 or s5 will be an afterthought.
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      03-29-2017, 11:58 AM   #40
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I feel BMW has lost its plot for the F30 3er. For those of us that enjoyed BMW's legendary driving kinematics, the F30 was a departure towards appealing the mainstream. That's OK for many folks. Depends what you treasure I suppose.

Unless you can opt for the M-packaged 3er, the A4 imho is the better car to own. Interior is a superior, presence and stance is way nicer than the plain jane 3-er. Quattro vs Xdrive? MMI is intuitive although the current iDrive is no slouch either.
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      03-29-2017, 01:50 PM   #41
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A4 is, as always, a boring ugly box on 4 wheels.
If you really want an Audi, go for A5 Sportback, that's a proper beauty. However, if you are a "driver", then you shouldn't be asking this question... BMW is the only choice.
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      03-29-2017, 02:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
A4 is, as always, a boring ugly box on 4 wheels.
......However, if you are a "driver", then you shouldn't be asking this question... BMW is the only choice.
Ah, I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all with that.
Audi makes very competitive vehicles to BMW (and Benz) in every segment, looks being subjective and all, that's a matter of personal preference.

OP, read posts #30, 33, 36, 37 and 38, they are very objective on this subject, no "fanboy" attitude there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
YES!!! The 2 represents what BMW used to be!
Fully agree, if "driving dynamics" is your main criteria, 2 series is the way to go.
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      03-29-2017, 02:30 PM   #43
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My 14' 335i Xdrive is slower and handles worse than my stock 10' S4. The A4 of course is slower but handles about the same as the 335 (when not in sport)

The tech in the B9 A4 is pretty great but I'd still go with a 335 over an A4 just for the power. If you are comparing a 328 to an A4 there is no comparison, the A4 wins hands down. The 328 is loud in both road and engine noise and all 3 series are much less refined even when compared to earlier Audis.

Granted I am biased as I have yet to be wowed by my 335. Every single thing about this car is underwhelming, the glued on interior trim which is falling off (will be covered under warranty), the loud road noise, lack of power, the sloppy handling, tech that just feels half finished, etc. I have not seen anything that resembles a hint of "ultimate driving machine", except for the MPG increase thats been nice.

If I had more time to look for another S4 I would have stuck with Audi but I was pressed for time and the 335 was priced right and had 17k on the clock.
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      03-29-2017, 03:01 PM   #44
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This thread is funny. So many varying opinions, and of course it's all subjective. As I said earlier here in this thread, I recently drove a '17 A4 Quattro Premium Plus with Sport (lowered) suspension and thought, "why is this car rated so highly?" Both dynamics and (exterior) looks are very "meh" (in my humble opinion).

S4, I dunno, but I'd pick a '17 F30 RWD with M Sport suspension EVERY DAY over the new A4 quattro.

Maybe the OP should start a poll on this.
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