[titaniume90]

Leave her, shes cheating on you, and if she isn't she wants to.

[OC Guy]

[toofasttooslow]

[fobunited]

I believe there is a double-standard as far as what women are allowed to do and what men are allowed to do.

We rationalize our behavior all too often, yet automatically jump the gun at any sign of suspicion from our spouse/significant other.

95% of American males watch some form of pornography (the other 5% are lying). Does this constitute cheating? We quickly rationalize, no! it's not cheating because we're not actually doing anything with that other person. And furthermore, we're men and therefore it's part of our nature and unavoidable.

That's complete BS to me, because we ARE cheating on our significant others in that instance, because we betray our loved ones physically and emotionally. How many times, after watching pornography, do those images flash through our minds when we are having sex with our loved ones?

Truly, we should all look in the mirror before condemning this man's wife, who none of us even know except for the OP himself. Let the sinless cast the first stone.

I believe as much as pornography and masturbation are "unescapable" for men because it's part of our "nature," the need to be loved, admired, and shown affection is also hard-wired into women. If we neglect that, then they might get it elsewhere much like we curb our natural tendencies elsewhere.

As much grace is extended to the male-gender by women, so we should do the same.

[hks786]

Well Fob, I think that's very true. To me porn would be considered as cheating too.

[DasBlitz]

Who the hell are you? and why would you give someone your life savings which is supposedly in the millions. I call BS.

Also, I wouldn't be bending over and letting her do whatever she wants. My girlfiend who I feel will be my wife in a few years, i hope knows not to dare pull shit like that. I maybe wouldnt rush to divorce but id be smacking a hoe. That shit is not acceptable.

[DasBlitz]

Originally Posted by fobunited

I believe there is a double-standard as far as what women are allowed to do and what men are allowed to do.

We rationalize our behavior all too often, yet automatically jump the gun at any sign of suspicion from our spouse/significant other.

95% of American males watch some form of pornography (the other 5% are lying). Does this constitute cheating? We quickly rationalize, no! it's not cheating because we're not actually doing anything with that other person. And furthermore, we're men and therefore it's part of our nature and unavoidable.

That's complete BS to me, because we ARE cheating on our significant others in that instance, because we betray our loved ones physically and emotionally. How many times, after watching pornography, do those images flash through our minds when we are having sex with our loved ones?

Truly, we should all look in the mirror before condemning this man's wife, who none of us even know except for the OP himself. Let the sinless cast the first stone.

I believe as much as pornography and masturbation are "unescapable" for men because it's part of our "nature," the need to be loved, admired, and shown affection is also hard-wired into women. If we neglect that, then they might get it elsewhere much like we curb our natural tendencies elsewhere.

As much grace is extended to the male-gender by women, so we should do the same.

Are you serious? haha what are you Dr. Phil.

If you actually think me beating one constitutes me cheating on my girlfriend then you are a joke.

Shit I don't need porn, I can easily imagine my girlfriend and her best friend going at it.

But it does make it quicker and really causes no harm. As long as the guy or girl isnt addicted to it.

[fobunited]

No, I'm a guy who's been dating a girl for 2 years and wants to prepare myself so that my marriage lasts.

I'm a guy who is sick and tired of the divorce rate in America, and people not being mature enough to step up to the plate and take responsibility.

You must be joking if you don't think pornography or masturbation doesn't cause harm to a relationship.

Would you be comfortable watching pornography and masturbating, then having your girlfriend/spouse walk in on you? Would you feel guiltless? Do you think that's a betrayal of trust? Have you put yourself in HER shoes and thought of what she would think or how she would feel?

And, honestly, what percentage of American's AREN'T addicted to pornography? You have got to be kidding yourself if you believe people aren't addicted when the porn industry is a multi BILLION dollar industry.

How do you define cheating? Most people constitute cheating as a physical affair, but it can be emotional and psychological as well. When you are watching pornography and/or masturbating, you are SUBSTITUTING something in the place of your girlfriend/spouse. THAT is cheating. THAT shows that you are not satisfied with your girlfriend/spouse and what she provides isn't enough.

I thoroughly believe the divorce rate in America is a big problem, and masturbation/pornography contributes to that issue.

[MCS]

FOB, realistically, I think you're living in a dreamworld.

The hardwiring of human beings is to look. If you are with your girlfriend at a nice restaraunt and see an attractive couple walk in, I am more than certain that you will both look up. You will both wonder, if for an instant - wow = she/he is pretty hot. Ask your girlfriend the next time she sees an attractive male if she takes a quick glance. If nothing else, the woman or man always wonders" wow - what is she/he doing with him/her?!?"

Does that constitute cheating? If it does, than everyone's a cheater.

You may list mastubaiton pornography as an issue, but what is pornography? Is a nude art? How about all of the madison avenue driven marketing ads?

[fobunited]

Who said the ads AREN'T an issue? Sex sells, and unfortunately it's everywhere in America.

Pornography may be categorized as art, but again it's another justification for its existence in our lives. What do most people use pornography for? For THEM to live in a fantasy world and substitute someone in a video, picture, etc. It's a way for them to live out their desires and detach themselves from reality so they don't feel guilty.

Looking at a hot/beautiful girl or guy is one thing, but acting on desires is another. If you can watch pornography, view it as art, and NEVER act on your impulses, then good for you and your justification is valid. But be honest with yourself, how many people can?

It's ACTING on those impulses, and therefore substituting another figure or human being for your girlfriend/spouse, that constitutes cheating.

All I'm saying, is that we are not guilt free and therefore we shouldn't be so quick to judge the OP's wife. Everyone is so quick to point the finger at her and say, "she's cheating," "dump her," "protect your assets." Is money worth more than love and trust? Is watching pornography and masturbating to it less of an offense than what she has done, speculation aside?

If you put money before your marriage, than you love money more than your wife. I'm worth more than 100mm and would never have by fiance sign a prenup, because I'm dooming my marriage from the start by saying I don't trust her 100% and my money is more valuable to me than my marriage and COMMITMENT to her. Spare me the "protecting yourself," BS. As a husband, protect your marriage first.

[ATG]

Tough subject. Yes, she was cheating, but honestly, I don't believe in a single couple where either a husband or wife never cheated (or were seriously tempted to cheat) throughout the entire marriage. Especially if they are good looking, healthy, and full of energy. Humans are still animals and the laws of natural attraction have not been repealed yet.

Also, let's face it, no one can maintain the same level of passion for his/her mate for years.

[ATG]

Also,

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by ATG

Tough subject. Yes, she was cheating, but honestly, I don't believe in a single couple where either a husband or wife never cheated (or were seriously tempted to cheat) throughout the entire marriage. Especially if they are good looking, healthy, and full of energy. Humans are still animals and the laws of natural attraction have not been repealed yet.

Also, let's face it, no one can maintain the same level of passion for his/her mate for years.

Yup. Unfortunatley, I guess, I can't keep that fire for a woman for more than 4 years. That is my record.

[DasBlitz]

Originally Posted by fobunited

No, I'm a guy who's been dating a girl for 2 years and wants to prepare myself so that my marriage lasts.

I'm a guy who is sick and tired of the divorce rate in America, and people not being mature enough to step up to the plate and take responsibility.

You must be joking if you don't think pornography or masturbation doesn't cause harm to a relationship.

Would you be comfortable watching pornography and masturbating, then having your girlfriend/spouse walk in on you? Would you feel guiltless? Do you think that's a betrayal of trust? Have you put yourself in HER shoes and thought of what she would think or how she would feel?

And, honestly, what percentage of American's AREN'T addicted to pornography? You have got to be kidding yourself if you believe people aren't addicted when the porn industry is a multi BILLION dollar industry.

How do you define cheating? Most people constitute cheating as a physical affair, but it can be emotional and psychological as well. When you are watching pornography and/or masturbating, you are SUBSTITUTING something in the place of your girlfriend/spouse. THAT is cheating. THAT shows that you are not satisfied with your girlfriend/spouse and what she provides isn't enough.

I thoroughly believe the divorce rate in America is a big problem, and masturbation/pornography contributes to that issue.

First, who the hell are you? Seriously you are way to, I cant even say cus its not emtional more like delusional.

First you are sick of people getting divorced and all that blah blah. Ok its america people can be dumb all they want you sort of take it to heart.

Guess what you can never watch porn in a relationship do everything by the book and bam your girl leaves you. It always happens to those that worry to much or put way to much pressure on making sure everything is done right.

Would I feel guilty about beating off? No. Wtf did I just murder someone?

And in her shoes? She can masterbate too, So I really dont care.

And you really sound like one of those douchebags who got a degree and can tell the world how to have a relationship.

First porn industry is a billion dollar industry and a good chunk of americans can get a addicted because of what you are doing! it is shunned and looked down upon, yet it is used in ads and put in our face. Unlike Europe and such which are open to nudity and sexuality.

And again you know me and every relationship? You state me beating off means Im not satisfied with my girlfriend?

Far from it, maybe because during the week I have hardly no time to see her sometimes?

Oh but I forgot you know me and every single relationship so therefore can state such insane crap like that. You are a joke and like I said wouldnt be surprised your the one who ends up getting divorced.

Originally Posted by MCS

FOB, realistically, I think you're living in a dreamworld.

The hardwiring of human beings is to look. If you are with your girlfriend at a nice restaraunt and see an attractive couple walk in, I am more than certain that you will both look up. You will both wonder, if for an instant - wow = she/he is pretty hot. Ask your girlfriend the next time she sees an attractive male if she takes a quick glance. If nothing else, the woman or man always wonders" wow - what is she/he doing with him/her?!?"

Does that constitute cheating? If it does, than everyone's a cheater.

You may list mastubaiton pornography as an issue, but what is pornography? Is a nude art? How about all of the madison avenue driven marketing ads?

+1

[fobunited]

DasBlitz, I aplogize if you took things personally. I used "you" in my response as a generalization to men in general and did not inted to single you out.

I DON'T know you, and am in the wrong to generalize and assume things about you and your relationship. Considering we have, at the least, BMWs in common, I wouldn't skip the opportunity to get to know you. Again, please accept my apology.

[garyhgaryh]

Originally Posted by derek0480

It's a tough situation you are in...but coming from a person who has been married for just over 2 years. It's cheating. Blatently cheating.

If you do not decide to end it then the best advice I can give you is to begin slowly hiding your money into accounts untouchable by divorce. (Yes there are lots of them out there.)

You can thank me later when her greedy lawyer only gets her 1/2 of what you didn't hide...not 1/2 of what you are worth.

Either way good luck man.

To the OP: I suggest you do this.

To Derek: give us an idea what accounts are untouchable by divorce. Is 401k untouchable?

Gary

[Slke46]

Hard situation your in... I would just make sure your discomforts are known. Honestly she has found someone that fills her needs that you can't. She has a substitute relationship for something she should have in you... be careful, life is short make a decision and follow through with it. I would be pissed if my wifey started talking to any guy... friend or whatever! The fact that she finds it ok for him to call her pet names is wrong... whats next after she realizes she's bored with that... physical touch... maybe a massage or two???

[The flying Dutchman]

Originally Posted by ashamedtotell

I’m posting under an alias, not my regular account to remain anonymous (please do not look me up). I guess I’m ashamed that this happened to me… Just a disclaimer – I am writing mostly to vent, but maybe I find an advice or maybe this message will help someone…

Ok, so here is the deal. I am married, very much love my wife and believe she loves me as well. We know each other for 6+ years and are together for the most of the time. We always had a really good relationship – I never ever thought about cheating on her and never had a reason not to trust her 100%. And when I say I love her, I really mean it – I married her even though my parents shunned me for it (purely based on prejudice – they had no reason not to like her), I changed many of my habits to make her happier (and so did she) and we never had a fight that lasted more than 20 minutes, even thought we both are very strong-tempered people. We were happy and were enjoying each other.

This year I had to move for work, and my wife could not follow me immediately, so we spent about two months apart. She moved in with me, but little things changed – she was still the same with me, but she stopped doing a lot of nice little things she used to do, such as occasionally baking cookies or cooking something fancy, buying me small gifts or making up little songs about me (she used to do that before). She also stopped caring about our home – we moved to a bigger place, but she did not care to buy something new to make it look less empty. I mean I am not expecting my wife to buy furniture alone, but she never mentioned it to me, never planned a household shopping weekend or something like that. I thought it was because of the move, because she was busy trying to get settled, looking for a job, etc. But it never got better. It was only slowly getting worse and worse. There was no conflict between us or anything like that, and she still seemed loving and caring, but it almost seemed that when she sees me she reacts, and when she forgets about me and the family.

We also started looking for new friends in the new place and found some people, mostly guys, who were involved in the same sport as we were. Nice company, nice everything… I had to work a lot and could not spend too much time out with them, but I did not want to cage my wife at home either, so she ended up going out without me. Anyway, these were not parties or dates but like group meets, so I did not worry. Once she told me that one of the guys boasted to other guys that he can get her to cheat on me – she said she did not want to tell me fearing that I will not let her see the team again, but decided to tell since we had no secrets and he really has no chance. I was a bit pissed at the guy, but not much (not getting laid for too long really can really mess some guys up) and I was not really worried – after all, I trust my wife. So I was like, ok, do not expect me to be nice to him, but otherwise this is not changing anything. I am pretty sure she never talked to that guy again (so that’s not him I’m talking about). So we had this nice family with full trust and love.

One day she asks me to fix her computer, so I was fixing it and found some viruses that were hiding in the Web browser history folder. I went there to do some stuff manually and saw that she was using a free mail service like 20+ times a day. I knew she opened that account just to communicate with one friend who was not really important to her and did not use it for anything else, so I got curious. I looked more at the history and saw that she always made sure to log out of the mailbox, not just close the browser window. I got suspicious and decided to log in to the mailbox, but found out that she did not have the password auto-filled, which was really strange and untypical. I logged in to the mailbox anyway (do not ask) and saw that it was CLEAN – inbox, sent items, trash can – all empty, everything meticulously deleted. I did not know what to think, so I started looking everywhere else on the computer. Everything else was erased. Message history in all 3 IMs was turned off etc. I turned the history back on and decided to check her email periodically.

And here is what I found – she was exchanging emails with another guy from the team – a one that we both knew pretty well. The content of emails was not incriminating in anything, but the frequency was staggering – they emailed each other even before going to work and late at night before going to bed. They also used chat, but not as much. As I said, nothing really incriminating except he called her pet names (my inspiration, gorgeous, cutie-pie etc). Well, she really is gorgeous, and most people call her sweetie or honey, but not 20 times a day, each time differently and they are not single males…

I started searching more – I looked at her phone records and found that they spoke on the phone almost every day, up to 7 times a day… That 7 times day was when I was away on a business trip and she did not call me once in the 6 days I was away (I was calling her once a day, but she never did!) Also, I saw that one day when she had to stay on a meeting really late with her phone off, after the meeting was over she called him first and only then called me. Yes, she came home to me every day, and spent way more time with me than with him anyway, but for God’s sake we are together for 6 years, I am her husband, and we were planning to have a first kid next fall – I should not even think about competing for her time with other guys…

She found out I was “spying” on her. She did not get angry about it – she was just surprised I did not trust her. We started talking – I asked if hiding something from me so thoroughly was right – she said no, if I gave her any reason to do that – no, if she thought that it was ok for someone to call a wife of a guy he knows 5+ times a day and call her pet names – no. Why did you do that to me? I do not know, I did not realize it was so bad. Why did you hide it so much then? I realized it might hurt you… But why did you do it then? I cannot explain, but we were not romantically involved in any way – it was just talking. Would you be hurt if I was obsessed with another woman, was waiting for her call, not yours, was anticipating seeing her instead of you etc? Yes, very much. Then why did you do that to me??!! I’m sorry, I was so stupid I cannot believe it… Neither can it…

We talked for hours, mostly me… I am pretty sure it did not get physical or even romantic – she was just using him as entertainment, and he only managed to bite a chunk of her time and probably most of her attention…

Initially I thought about leaving her. I even offered her to take all my savings (7 figures) and divorce me – she said she wanted me, not money or anyone else. She was really apologetic and said that she realized her mistakes (there was a whole string of those) and that she would work to gain my trust back, but now I am not sure if she really means that or just says that to calm me down. Now I have no idea what to do – stay with her or not. We were really happy together and I love her, but I am really hurt. I mean, if I did not care for her so much and thought that she feels the same, I would probably be ok – she just used some guy as a toy while I was busy with a new job, and pretty much used her looks to get herself and me as well a free personal trainer. But taking into account how much I loved and trusted her (enough to let her be in the same team with a guy who made a bet he would make her cheat on me), her lying and hiding, displacing me and family with another person etc is a betrayal. It really hurts to realize that the person you trusted the most lied, and you were second in line for someone who is center of your universe… And I do not see how I can trust her that much again, and I do not want to settle for anything less…

Her last words this morning were – probably I needed this to realize how much I need you and how much I do not want to lose you. I really want to believe that she did not realize what she was doing, and now she got so much smarter and will never do this again, but can I?

Comments? Suggestions? I do not expect anyone to give me the “right answer” and will not hold anyone responsible if I decide to follow the advice… But I am really clueless in this situation – I never thought this could happen to me…

Ok, watch out, I.m experienced with this, while yesterday i signed my divorce papers and thus handing over 0.25m euros to my (ex) wife. Almost exactly the same story, but with two complications : 2 boys of 2 and 8 years.

The only way it might get right in your case is going to a marriage counsellor. My wife would not, but a third party can give you both clean thoughts. Consequences can be that your wife or even you as a result quits the relation, but now you have the idea that this was the maximal possible outcome. If you do not, you always know that you didn't try all to save the relation and most likely her behaviour will turn back in 4-5 years and will strike you like a boomerang.(your problems needs to be solved, not rumbling under the surface)

Do NOT start arguing or fighting yet, even how difficult is may be (if you have to hand over $ 2.0m in a divorce, this might change a little).

I see that you did a lot of investing yet (moving, different jobs/friends etc.)
so take steps now and take your life in your own hands!!

Good luck, you will need it.

[Revlis]

Originally Posted by fobunited

I believe there is a double-standard as far as what women are allowed to do and what men are allowed to do.

We rationalize our behavior all too often, yet automatically jump the gun at any sign of suspicion from our spouse/significant other.

95% of American males watch some form of pornography (the other 5% are lying). Does this constitute cheating? We quickly rationalize, no! it's not cheating because we're not actually doing anything with that other person. And furthermore, we're men and therefore it's part of our nature and unavoidable.

That's complete BS to me, because we ARE cheating on our significant others in that instance, because we betray our loved ones physically and emotionally. How many times, after watching pornography, do those images flash through our minds when we are having sex with our loved ones?

Truly, we should all look in the mirror before condemning this man's wife, who none of us even know except for the OP himself. Let the sinless cast the first stone.

I believe as much as pornography and masturbation are "unescapable" for men because it's part of our "nature," the need to be loved, admired, and shown affection is also hard-wired into women. If we neglect that, then they might get it elsewhere much like we curb our natural tendencies elsewhere.

As much grace is extended to the male-gender by women, so we should do the same.

You need help... Serious professional help...

[Revlis]

Originally Posted by fobunited

No, I'm a guy who's been dating a girl for 2 years and wants to prepare myself so that my marriage lasts.

I'm a guy who is sick and tired of the divorce rate in America, and people not being mature enough to step up to the plate and take responsibility.

You must be joking if you don't think pornography or masturbation doesn't cause harm to a relationship.

Would you be comfortable watching pornography and masturbating, then having your girlfriend/spouse walk in on you? Would you feel guiltless? Do you think that's a betrayal of trust? Have you put yourself in HER shoes and thought of what she would think or how she would feel?

And, honestly, what percentage of American's AREN'T addicted to pornography? You have got to be kidding yourself if you believe people aren't addicted when the porn industry is a multi BILLION dollar industry.

How do you define cheating? Most people constitute cheating as a physical affair, but it can be emotional and psychological as well. When you are watching pornography and/or masturbating, you are SUBSTITUTING something in the place of your girlfriend/spouse. THAT is cheating. THAT shows that you are not satisfied with your girlfriend/spouse and what she provides isn't enough.

I thoroughly believe the divorce rate in America is a big problem, and masturbation/pornography contributes to that issue.

Seriously... PROFESSIONAL HELP... You are looking at heading into a Marriage that I guarantee you wont survive 2 years or the first speedbump, whichever comes first.

I'm betting you're... say 17, maybe 18? First and only girlfriend is the one you're planning on marrying? She reads these forums and is a religious nut or still a "princess".

Not saying it to be mean, saying it because most everything you said sounds like wide eyed childhood dreams with no real world experience.

Actually I'll bet you are the Girlfriend now that I re-read your post...

[fobunited]

uuhhh.... no. I'm 25 and my parents almost went through a divorce when I was in high school due to an affair. My girlfriend's parents are divorced.

You may think I have an idealistic view on marriage and what not, and therefore believe me to be young and naive. In actuality, I firmly believe in the depravity of mankind.

I fully expect there to be much turmoil in my marriage, and any marriage for that matter. The fact is, that regardless of the turmoil, hurt, and anger, I want to uphold my marriage vow if and when I take it.

I do not know if I will be able to do so, but when I take the vow and say, "till DEATH do us part," I want to uphold my end of the bargain no matter how painful that may be. That means loving and devoting myself to my wife, even if she does cheat on me. Call me dumb or naive, but I believe that to be what marriage and love is about, regardless of my personal pain. Marriage and love can't be selfish.

[Big Windy]

i read this whole thing but i've got nothing more to add. best of luck dude. porn is sweet.