[zofinger]

No no no no no no......

Horner can remember why not.....why can't the rest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48971037

[nordberg]

Nooooooo

FFS it really isn’t that difficult. Halve the aero. Job done.

[Skwirrel]

Anyone who remembers this will know why it isn't a good idea. 1994 Jos Verstappen driving for Benetton.

[NISFAN]

Refuelling era was the most boring. All overtakes done on strategy not on track. No clarity on who is where during the race. Stupid idea.

[Abrek]

Anything that improves competitiveness of second tier teams I’m in!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Abrek

Anything that improves competitiveness of second tier teams I’m in!

And you think refuelling does that?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Refuelling era was the most boring. All overtakes done on strategy not on track. No clarity on who is where during the race. Stupid idea.

Exactly so, a return to refuelling would be a large retrograde step IMO.

[ahmedb]

There are pros and cons and I'm hearing mostly cons so for the purpose of attempting to restore neutrality, it throws in an extra variable for things to go wrong, it can help with the undercut/overcut depending on the affect of weight vs tyre grip and it will bring races like Monaco to life where overtaking is notoriously difficult.

If they want to make it safer, they can always bring in a minimum pit stop time similar to that in formula E

It will also reward cars which have a more efficient system. Ouch, its painful to accept we hear terms like efficiency in the pinacle of racing

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ahmedb

There are pros and cons and I'm hearing mostly cons so for the purpose of attempting to restore neutrality, it throws in an extra variable for things to go wrong, it can help with the undercut/overcut depending on the affect of weight vs tyre grip and it will bring races like Monaco to life where overtaking is notoriously difficult.

If they want to make it safer, they can always bring in a minimum pit stop time similar to that in formula E

It will also reward cars which have a more efficient system. Ouch, its painful to accept we hear terms like efficiency in the pinacle of racing

But we've had refuelling before and the reality is it did nothing to make the racing more exciting unless you happened to be a strategy nerd. It's not like it's a new idea that's never been tried before, we've been there, seen it, done it and got the T-shirt; why do you think it would it be any different if it was reintroduced?

[ahmedb]

Originally Posted by JNW1

But we've had refuelling before and the reality is it did nothing to make the racing more exciting unless you happened to be a strategy nerd. It's not like it's a new idea that's never been tried before, we've been there, seen it, done it and got the T-shirt; why do you think it would it be any different if it was reintroduced?

My 2p worth is that in years gone by, a heavily fuelled car was often a great barrier to those behind them but with DRS and new aero regs, it would be much easier to pass. Plus with most races these days seeing either a SC or VSC, that would really throw a spanner in the strategists works. Let's face it, strategy is a huge part of the sport at the moment. Drivers can't approach a race with a 'let me drive flat out as fast as I can approach'. The drivers themselves will say that it has never been this way anyway and tyre/fuel management has always played a part but I never recall it being as exaggerated as it is now and not having refuelling plays a part in that.

Other ideas would be freedom of tyre choices and manufacturers (bring back competition), ballasts or start the race on the tyre you use in Q3.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ahmedb

My 2p worth is that in years gone by, a heavily fuelled car was often a great barrier to those behind them but with DRS and new aero regs, it would be much easier to pass. Plus with most races these days seeing either a SC or VSC, that would really throw a spanner in the strategists works. Let's face it, strategy is a huge part of the sport at the moment. Drivers can't approach a race with a 'let me drive flat out as fast as I can approach'. The drivers themselves will say that it has never been this way anyway and tyre/fuel management has always played a part but I never recall it being as exaggerated as it is now and not having refuelling plays a part in that.

Other ideas would be freedom of tyre choices and manufacturers (bring back competition), ballasts or start the race on the tyre you use in Q3.

Safety cars - albeit I accept not virtual safety cars - were used extensively during the refuelling era so the only thing that's really changed since it was last used is the introduction of DRS. Personally I don't see that would make refuelling any more entertaining if it was reintroduced and I think we'd be back to more overtaking in the pits and even less on the track (which would be a bad thing IMO).

At the end of the day the powers that be will do what they want to do but I'm with Christian Horner on this one....

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by ahmedb

My 2p worth is that in years gone by, a heavily fuelled car was often a great barrier to those behind them but with DRS and new aero regs, it would be much easier to pass. Plus with most races these days seeing either a SC or VSC, that would really throw a spanner in the strategists works. Let's face it, strategy is a huge part of the sport at the moment. Drivers can't approach a race with a 'let me drive flat out as fast as I can approach'. The drivers themselves will say that it has never been this way anyway and tyre/fuel management has always played a part but I never recall it being as exaggerated as it is now and not having refuelling plays a part in that.

Other ideas would be freedom of tyre choices and manufacturers (bring back competition), ballasts or start the race on the tyre you use in Q3.

I don't agree. Race pace has always been restricted, that is true, but refuelling didn't improve that, it arguably made it worse.
You had the lead driver (e.g. Schumacher) on the optimum strategy and to stop team mates falling over each other in the pits, the second driver had extra fuel to space the stops. So each team had a definite #1 ranked driver. This has weened itself out of the system, even by Ferrari. We don't want that back.
Also, tyre changes were forced, you can't extend a stint if you wanted to, the strategy was the strategy, period. No reacting to other teams by staying out if your tank is empty, or stretching because of imminent rain, etc.
Then there was the danger. With halo restricting getting out, a fuel fire could be lethal.
Ultimately, refuelling spread the field even further. Just look how fast the top teams are in quali compared to the slower teams. Having a constant in form of fuel and tyre restrictions brings the racing closer. Consider that Williams, the slowest cars on track at the moment, are powered by the same engines as the Mercedes. The Williams chassis isn't quite as good as the Mercedes one, which means less time at WOT. In effect, the Williams are doing some 'fuel saving' unintentionally. Which means less lift and coast/ reduced engine setting, etc than Mercedes have to do.

The only way to reduce the restriction would be to shorten the race. Maybe have two or three sprint races, BTCC style.

[ahmedb]

I think the solution is to clone Leclerc and Verstappen and lets have a grid full of those 2

[Tengocity]

Just have every round at Silverstone.

[zofinger]

And who remembers the fiasco of grid 'fuel adjusted positions' whereby ITV (broadcaster at the time) had to analyse the amount of fuel carried by cars in qualifying to then 'guess' which was actually the quickest! The fastest car was sometimes not on pole so they could go longer in the race before needing to re-fuel.

Re-fuelling seemed a good idea but it soon became really difficult to understand who was actually in the lead and who had the fsastest car. Nevermind understanding strategy calls. It was all so so poor.

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by zofinger

And who remembers the fiasco of grid 'fuel adjusted positions' whereby ITV (broadcaster at the time) had to analyse the amount of fuel carried by cars in qualifying to then 'guess' which was actually the quickest! The fastest car was sometimes not on pole so they could go longer in the race before needing to re-fuel.

Re-fuelling seemed a good idea but it soon became really difficult to understand who was actually in the lead and who had the fsastest car. Nevermind understanding strategy calls. It was all so so poor.

but that was great! you didnt really 'know' who really had the winning pace and left an element of doubt.

I dont like the heavy cars that drivers have to nurse for the 1st half of the race. I admit, in the past a lot of overtaking was done during the pit stops, but it was another variable and if the 2021 regs deliver cars that can race on track, it might be different.

Driver can only manage heavy cars, they cant race them.

I don't know, the juries out, but I recall enjoying the refueling era a hell of a lot more than the current.

[SteveChester]

Bad move to go back to it - hopefully a good race this weekend at Hockenheim