[pauli18c]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Whether you intended to or not, you kind of put them though a trick question/test. The F/R frequency numbers you stated for the 5/16k setup are far too low (should be 1.73/1.98Hz). If I had received your email I would've probably asked you to check your numbers or said "Are you sure my coilovers are softer than your M-Sport suspension?" instead of outright dismissing the concern and stating that the frequencies don't apply, which is silly. You can try to maintain body control by over damping the the system, but you give up grip and comfort that way. Twin-tube/monotube has nothing to do with it.

That's just the normal R&T PN.

I definitely did not mean to mess up the frequencies, oops... I must have had the wrong values plugged in when I was using your calculator as I had opened it and closed it numerous times that day.

I will agree though he seemed very stand off ish and didn't seem to want to actually address anything. Doesn't make me feel very good as a buyer that they want to go the extra mile to get a custom setup dialed in for the purposes I stated. Not looking for slammed, and looking for a comfortable street car that performs verse looks

[pauli18c]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Ohlins are also on my radar. Discovered today that they list Xdrive on their website for part BMS MP00

I feel like they're worth the extra money at this point

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by pauli18c

I definitely did not mean to mess up the frequencies, oops... I must have had the wrong values plugged in when I was using your calculator as I had opened it and closed it numerous times that day.

I will agree though he seemed very stand off ish and didn't seem to want to actually address anything. Doesn't make me feel very good as a buyer that they want to go the extra mile to get a custom setup dialed in for the purposes I stated. Not looking for slammed, and looking for a comfortable street car that performs verse looks

Originally Posted by pauli18c

I feel like they're worth the extra money at this point

And if you're spending Ohlins money, you should really consider doing a bespoke Fat Cat Motorsports setup for about the same price. It can be a bit more difficult to find the donor hardware (I actually have quite a bit of donor HW if someone wants to do an FCM setup), but worth it!

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

And if you're spending Ohlins money, you should really consider doing a bespoke Fat Cat Motorsports setup for about the same price. It can be a bit more difficult to find the donor hardware (I actually have quite a bit of donor HW if someone wants to do an FCM setup), but worth it!

So what is it exactly with FCM? I browsed their website and didn’t get a clear understanding of what it is. Consultation of suspension setup and custom build of my own suspension with parts that they recommend?

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Whether you intended to or not, you kind of put them though a trick question/test. The F/R frequency numbers you stated for the 5/16k setup are far too low (should be 1.73/1.98Hz). If I had received your email I would've probably asked you to check your numbers or said "Are you sure my coilovers are softer than your M-Sport suspension?" instead of outright dismissing the concern and stating that the frequencies don't apply, which is silly. You can try to maintain body control by over damping the the system, but you give up grip and comfort that way. Twin-tube/monotube has nothing to do with it.

That's just the normal R&T PN.

Yeah I'm aware, they just never listed xdrive as compatible with that set before, to my knowledge. I've been eyeing them since 2018

[pauli18c]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

And if you're spending Ohlins money, you should really consider doing a bespoke Fat Cat Motorsports setup for about the same price. It can be a bit more difficult to find the donor hardware (I actually have quite a bit of donor HW if someone wants to do an FCM setup), but worth it!

Ohlin's is kind of the top of my range price wise. Can you give some more insight as to the cost of the Fatcat setup? I wish they had better price break downs listed verse having to pay for a consultation right off the bat

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

So what is it exactly with FCM? I browsed their website and didn’t get a clear understanding of what it is. Consultation of suspension setup and custom build of my own suspension with parts that they recommend?

I don't really like their website either, I wish they gave some more info verse just basically a contact us for consultation that you'll need to pay for. I get that everyone has different needs, but I feel like there's different tiers of customers that can be broken down a little further to know what to expect before paying for a consultation

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

So what is it exactly with FCM? I browsed their website and didn’t get a clear understanding of what it is. Consultation of suspension setup and custom build of my own suspension with parts that they recommend?

Originally Posted by pauli18c

Ohlin's is kind of the top of my range price wise. Can you give some more insight as to the cost of the Fatcat setup? I wish they had better price break downs listed verse having to pay for a consultation right off the bat

I don't really like their website either, I wish they gave some more info verse just basically a contact us for consultation that you'll need to pay for. I get that everyone has different needs, but I feel like there's different tiers of customers that can be broken down a little further to know what to expect before paying for a consultation

FCM is a custom suspension small business that consults/guides and builds dampers for their customers. There aren't any "off the shelf" products with them. They start the process with a consultation to really understand what you want in your vehicle and your use cases. They're not "clock watchers" with the consultations and they typically go on longer than the stated paid for time. It's really more of a mechanism to weed out people that are just trying to get free information/consultation and don't have any interest in actually working with them. Then FCM guides you through the process of selecting items they don't do (like springs) teaching you what you might want to think about and consider. Once you have springs selected, they can build the dampers to match, and they've always explained to me how they're designing the damper to match, showing me the dyno curves, and explaining why it works.

For the dampers they rework Bilstein dampers, but don't think that only entails changing the shim stack to revalve them. Their rework at the most basic level can just be shim stack changes to revalve (their Stage 1 offering), but their other offerings modify the pistons (Stage 2), and also include inserting their own devices inside the damper to achieve more ideal damping force curves (Stage 3 - KBO). When I did my set, there weren't any used F3x Bilstein sets around so I bought brand new dampers as donors, but if you can find used parts it's a great way to save some money on the donor cost since the internals are getting pretty much rebuilt to new.

As for their prices, Stage 1 is $325/damper or $375/strut. The extra cost for the struts is disassembly, so you can save that money by following my video and disassembling them yourself before sending to FCM. Stage 2 adds their ripple reducer technology to the piston and is $125/damper. Stage 3 adds their "kerb blow off" (KBO) device to the damper which greatly reduces the harshness of bumps. IIRC this one was more expensive at like $425/damper.

So for about the same price as Ohlins (including donor hardware) you can get an FCM stage 2 setup, and that's what I did when I initially worked with them. After spending a year or so on that I decided to change my setup a bit (went to stiffer springs) and also upgraded to Stage 3/KBO. Stage 3 KBO does a great job of reducing the harshness of bumps, especially larger ones, and makes them feel shorter than they really are.

I recently spent some time back on my original rear EDC dampers unpowered/unplugged/full stiff, and the damping curve is about in the middle of the Koni Yellow range on rebound, and closer to a Bilstein B6/8 on compression (higher damped at high shock velocities). There's one freeway overpass in particular that has a pretty short and steep ramp up and down to it, and with the unpowered EDC dampers the rear would jump/pop the car up going onto the overpass and fall down really hard coming off of it (you really FEEL the landing/drop), followed by a couple of oscillations since it was getting into the bump stops so much. Swapping in the FCM stage 3 dampers improved things dramatically. There wasn't any more launching in the rear going up, and for the landing I naturally stiffened/braced my body but didn't need to at all since it was very well controlled.

Funny enough, I found another forum member (on the 1-series forum) in Taiwan that had FCM do a custom damper setup for them and they did an excellent write up/thread of the process.

[pauli18c]

thanks for all that info FaRKle! .

So basically would need to find a set of used B8s for that?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by pauli18c

thanks for all that info FaRKle! .

So basically would need to find a set of used B8s for that?

B6, B8, B14, or B16 can work as donors. B16 wouldn't be a very good donor though since they cost more and you'll lose the adjustability. B14 are good if you want to swap your own springs and make a fully custom height adjustable coilover set. This is what I have.

I have a spare set of B14 rear height adjusters and dampers I'm saving for an F2x/F3x member that wants to do an FCM setup and is looking for donor hardware...

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

B6, B8, B14, or B16 can work as donors. B16 wouldn't be a very good donor though since they cost more and you'll lose the adjustability. B14 are good if you want to swap your own springs and make a fully custom height adjustable coilover set. This is what I have.

I have a spare set of B14 rear height adjusters and dampers I'm saving for an F2x/F3x member that wants to do an FCM setup and is looking for donor hardware...

Now if I can find front B14s...

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

I'm not a technical guy so I didn't receive a technical answer. His answer was answered in a language I understood (I guess that's customer service). I will ask him in an email though and see if he can answer that in a technical way.

I do like how he responds to people on this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...auto-coilovers

His username is "Jaze".

FaRKle! this is the response I got. A tad too simple and basic of an answer for me... Bummer, I am an eager customer waiting to spend money and no one wants to earn it...

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

FaRKle! this is the response I got. A tad too simple and basic of an answer for me... Bummer, I am an eager customer waiting to spend money and no one wants to earn it...

Unfortunately you'll find that a lot of aftermarket auto parts mfgs won't (or don't have the capacity to) explain things beyond "this is what we subjectively felt was good." Their standards would never hold up in any professional tech company's design review process. It's really up to the consumers (us) to demand better of them, but there's an awful lot of consumers that don't care and just blindly trust argument to authority.

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Unfortunately you'll find that a lot of aftermarket auto parts mfgs won't (or don't have the capacity to) explain things beyond "this is what we subjectively felt was good." Their standards would never hold up in any professional tech company's design review process. It's really up to the consumers (us) to demand better of them, but there's an awful lot of consumers that don't care and just blindly trust argument to authority.

Such a shame... I understand that sometimes people can't answer technical questions. I am a perfect example. I work for a company that produces and manufacture tools, some of our tools are BMW factory tools.

I am the Sales Manager and also tech help. I can explain somethings, but only to a certain extent. Once it gets really technical, I don't try to play like I know what I am looking at, understand how it works or understand how to fix it. I usually forward these emails/phone calls to my boss, who is always happy to answer and help people out, even though he's got 200 other things going on.

The hunt continues for some coilovers!

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

Such a shame... I understand that sometimes people can't answer technical questions. I am a perfect example. I work for a company that produces and manufacture tools, some of our tools are BMW factory tools.

I am the Sales Manager and also tech help. I can explain somethings, but only to a certain extent. Once it gets really technical, I don't try to play like I know what I am looking at, understand how it works or understand how to fix it. I usually forward these emails/phone calls to my boss, who is always happy to answer and help people out, even though he's got 200 other things going on.

The hunt continues for some coilovers!

You shouldtake a gander a couple threads down at the Flatout Suspension coilovers. Haven't seen anyone offer inverted shocks at that price point. The only other two options for that are the Pss10 and Ohlins, both only in the rear. Flatout offers it on all four corners with the ST model. Im planning to pick them up in a few months.

However, other than ease of adjusting the rebound, I'm not sure what other benefits inverted shocks provide.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

You shouldtake a gander a couple threads down at the Flatout Suspension coilovers. Haven't seen anyone offer inverted shocks at that price point. The only other two options for that are the Pss10 and Ohlins, both only in the rear. Flatout offers it on all four corners with the ST model. Im planning to pick them up in a few months.

However, other than ease of adjusting the rebound, I'm not sure what other benefits inverted shocks provide.

The type of rear inverted damper that the B16, Ohlins, and Flatout coilovers have, have no other benefits other than being easier to adjust the damping levels (which is worth it if you have adjustable rears). The flat out doesn't have inverted shocks in front (as evidenced by the external bump stop seen on top).

The only inverted front shocks I've seen are Bilsteins and Ohlins. In that case there's an additional benefit from the inverted design because the strut body slides over the damper body during movement instead of just the piston shaft moving within the damper body. Since the damper body is so much larger in diameter than a piston shaft, it's more rigid and deflects less. You'd never notice the difference on the street though.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

The type of rear inverted damper that the B16, Ohlins, and Flatout coilovers have, have no other benefits other than being easier to adjust the damping levels (which is worth it if you have adjustable rears). The flat out doesn't have inverted shocks in front (as evidenced by the external bump stop seen on top).

The only inverted front shocks I've seen are Bilsteins. In that case there's an additional benefit from the inverted design because the strut body slides over the damper body instead of just the piston shaft moving within the damper body. Since the damper body is so much larger in diameter than a piston shaft, it's more rigid and deflects less. You'd never notice the difference on the street though.

Sorry the ST model is listed on the website, and spoke with them about the differences. OP has the SR which is inverted just in the rear.

Is that Bilstein setup offered on the F30? The Clubsport??

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Is that Bilstein setup offered on the F30? The Clubsport??

B6/8/14/16 and the clubsport all use inverted front struts on the F2x/3x chassis.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

B6/8/14/16 and the clubsport all use inverted front struts on the F2x/3x chassis.

Am I confused in thinking that "inverted" means the shock body is mounted to the chassis, and not the axle somewhere?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Am I confused in thinking that "inverted" means the shock body is mounted to the chassis, and not the axle somewhere?

Inverted means the piston shaft is oriented on the bottom instead of the top.

And for all those Bilsteins I mentioned the damper body is what's mounted to the top mount. You can see how the damper assembly, bump stop, and strut body are oriented/assembled in my video below:

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Inverted means the piston shaft is oriented on the bottom instead of the top.

And for all those Bilsteins I mentioned the damper body is what's mounted to the top mount. You can see how the damper assembly, bump stop, and strut body are oriented/assembled in my video below:

Mind blown. Thank you for this