[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by fantanas

The Pads are OEM equivalent.

Rotors probably are one piece.


How can I test the bushings?

Any other tests I need to do?

Further diagnostics will require a more experienced shop. I suggest to begin the search.

In my area (SoCal USA) there is a shop whose owner races BMWs during the weekend. Similar shop would have the same experience to diagnose any suspension or brake issues.

[redbullfan]

Originally Posted by fantanas

The garage said that they inspected them. Which ones are those?

Can I do any testing my self?

The noise/vibration is quite periodic. Wouldn't it be due to a rotating part?

Take a look at this video and inspect these arms. These tend to go at around 60k-80k miles depending on driving style.

[redbullfan]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

"3. I don't get vibration if I brake while turning."

fantanas, remote diagnostics are always a difficult proposition. If the above is correct, control arms require a closer inspection. They are called control arms because they control the wheel and suspension through the entire range of motion. Control arms have inner and outer ball joints - which rotate and spin as the control arm goes through its movements. The ball joints do wear as miles accumulate.

If vibration disappears when the suspension geometry changes, the focus should be centered on components which manage / participate in suspension geometry changes.

I sense you might need to find a more experienced shop.

Additional questions:

- What Pagid pads were installed? OEM equivalent or some other type? Question about brakes pads generates many opinions. Softer OEM pads have one advantage. They preserve rotor life (and rotor geometry) and have an aggressive initial bite - very suitable for daily driving.

- What rotors: Zimmermann single piece or 2-piece? I doubt the rotors are the culprit but it's prudent to have complete information.

The symptoms most definitely leads me to think its control arms since it has never been changed and they tend to go bad on these cars.

[cfm56d7b]

fantanas, wishing you to find the root cause and get the problem fixed.

The good news - the problem is repeatable and an experienced shop will address it.

Do you know when the 4 wheel alignment was done?

If control arms are replaced, the shop should check and if needed perform a 4 wheel wheel alignment.

Keep us updated!

[fantanas]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

fantanas, wishing you to find the root cause and get the problem fixed.

The good news - the problem is repeatable and an experienced shop will address it.

Do you know when the 4 wheel alignment was done?

If control arms are replaced, the shop should check and if needed perform a 4 wheel wheel alignment.

Keep us updated!

I have booked the car in at BMW on Monday to get it checked. Hopefully it is just the control arms and all is good.

4 wheel alignment was last done about 1.5 ago (but about 3-4K miles only due to COVID)

[fantanas]

Quick update. Went to BMW and they thought it was the hydro bearings of the struts. They replaced them, did an alignment, but the problem is still there. They have inspected everything and they can't seem to be able to find the problem.

Any ideas from anyone?

Originally Posted by fantanas

I have booked the car in at BMW on Monday to get it checked. Hopefully it is just the control arms and all is good.

4 wheel alignment was last done about 1.5 ago (but about 3-4K miles only due to COVID)

[fantanas]

Bump

[LaNcE01]

Just thinking outside the box. you said you did the rotors and pads correct? if so, did you torque the caliper bolts to spec? a bolt might be threaded to think its tight enough but during braking the caliper rocks back and forth? that is what ill look into.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by LaNcE01

Just thinking outside the box. you said you did the rotors and pads correct? if so, did you torque the caliper bolts to spec? a bolt might be threaded to think its tight enough but during braking the caliper rocks back and forth? that is what ill look into.

Building on this...did you clean/sand the faces of the wheel hubs and use a run-out gauge to check that the discs have zero/minimal run-out ?

Disc run-out can often be felt at most speeds and brake temperatures, but it'd almost certainly be more noticeable when pads and discs are hot and/or the car is travelling at speed.

[fantanas]

Originally Posted by LaNcE01

Just thinking outside the box. you said you did the rotors and pads correct? if so, did you torque the caliper bolts to spec? a bolt might be threaded to think its tight enough but during braking the caliper rocks back and forth? that is what ill look into.

Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately it was happening before the change and we have checked multiple times.

[Ace555]

I am getting trouble with my F30 too. Vibrations felt when braking from pretty much any speed down to around 30-20mph.

Its not the first time this has happened on my car, and last time I had the car checked by my local BMW dealership. They found nothing wrong suspension wise (I asked them to especially check the control arm bushes), and they replaced the discs and pads on the front end under warranty. Top result for me and the problem did indeed go away...

Until a few weeks ago, 7 months and about 10k miles later

I'm back to square one. The car judders horrendously under braking again, like before.

I've got the car booked back in again to the same dealer to take a fresh look and hopefully repair it but I've also started thinking about getting the discs skimmed using a Pro-Cut lathe. EBC brakes (a company i personally rate quite highly after using their products, that I'm convinced saved me from a severe head on crash a number of years ago) fully endorse skimming the discs on the car to fully eliminate the judder happening. They even suggest its worth doing on brand new discs to ensure the parts are a perfect fit to the vehicle.

I'm going to get my discs skimmed (on the car) whether the dealer fits new discs or not because I truly think this will be the cure my car needs.

Perhaps this is something your car also needs

[casualDIYer]

fantanas

You mentioned
"4. I feel the vibrations on the steering and brake pedal."

You also report
"I don't get vibration as bad if I brake while turning."

I wonder if the Anti-lock brake system (ABS) isn't playing a role. I think you can disconnect the fuse to ABS and still drive the car. The car will complain but I believe it will still drive. If all of a sudden your problem has gone, the ABS sensor is the likely culprit. It is not common for the ABS system to partially malfunction and the computer not notice, allowing you to drive along in blissful ignorance of a potentially serious issue (read the history of ABS to discover how fatally flawed it once was). But an interesting aspect of this problem is how it is lessened during a turn, when the left and right side of the car are at different speeds. Although that could explain other issues as well, especially if calipers or rotors are screwed.

If the calipers are suspected, might as well get the seals redone and the rotors resurfaced. At some point, a caliper seal eventually will fail.

Suspension components can play a role but usually a shop can tell if bushings are dying by applying pressure to a bushing using a set of large channel lock pliers. Mere mortals, with no more than a jack, can also make 'discoveries' of bushing feebleness by jacking up either the left or right front wheel, then, very carefully, push the top of the now in the air tyre as you pull the bottom. There should be no way a frail human can cause the wheel to pitch back and forth. Do this carefully so as to avoid the car falling off the jack. But if you can make your wheel wiggle, that's not normal and usually means a bushing has failed or a component is lose or both.

Be interesting to ask why the shop replaced the front wheel bearing. Bad bearings often manifest themselves as a clicking sound when rotated. Maybe there was a bad bearing as well? Having more than one problem at a time is not against the Laws of Unusually Cruel Automotive Issues.


Good luck

[clart]

I've got a very similar issue

Discs were worn front and rear and you could feel the waves on the face which was causing juddering when braking.

I changed the front discs and pads and they seemed ok at first , nice and smooth, but in the past couple of weeks i've noticed the wobble under braking has come back.

Even at slow speed they feel like they are grabbing and causing a pulsing sensation.

I could do the rears too i guess but reluctant to do this if its not going to fix. Other options are suspension arms and stripping them down again and cleaning everything and relubing etc.

[SLOW!N55]

Has anyone found a fix for this issue? I have a 2013 335i. I'm experiencing vibration on the steering when braking but not getting pulsation from the brake peddle. I had replaced the front rotors and pads last summer. I've also replaced the front thrust arms. I plan on getting under the car and checking the "rearward" front control arms for play... although I'm under the impression these last a while.

[chriszim]

Originally Posted by fantanas

Hello everyone,

I am having a bit of an issue with my BMW and I would need some support from the forum.

I have a 2015 435d X-Drive F33 M-Sport. I recently changed my rotors and parts (fronts) because I was experiencing vibrations under braking. After 200-300 miles, out of the blue the car started doing it again with the new components.

Some interesting points that I found:

1. This happens after I have been driving for a while at motorway speeds. Suddenly braking results in vibration. I could have been driving for 20 minutes without anything
2. This happens the first time when braking from speeds above 80mph. Then it happens at lower speeds as well.
3. I don't get vibration if I brake while turning.
4. I feel the vibrations on the steering and brake pedal.
5. The braking issue is audible as well.
6. I don't feel that braking performance is compromised.
7. This happens at any drive mode, any gear and any road surface.
8. When the car is not driven for a while (a few hours) this stops and #1 needs to happen.
9. I don't see any suspension or brake related faults through OBD.
10. When braking the whole car shakes quite bad. The vibration is quite violent.
11. I don't experience any vibration of that level during normal driving (not braking).

This is quite puzzling. I took it to a garage and he has no ideas as well. We were thinking that it could be ABS sensors or something, but I get no related faults and I would imagine it would be happening all the time. The rotors are brand new and I haven't hit any potholes, or standing water. The first time it happened after the rotor/pad change it wasn't hard braking. Could it be pistons from the callipers sticking?

Any ideas are more than welcome. I haven't been driving the car for a while and now that I have a chance to enjoy it this happens.

I have the exact same thing new discs and pads (brembo) which I fitted (ex tech) a while back hubs cleaned etc new tyres perfectly balanced and alignment done but after a long drive I get vibration when braking but when on shorter drives its fine I have noticed it tram lining a bit recently but it passed the mot the other week car is a 2018 on 38k (stock 320d m sport )I was thinking it could be bush related before reading this ? Did you change the tension bush arm ? Cheers, chris

[Arch_Stanton]

Originally Posted by fantanas

Hello everyone,

I am having a bit of an issue with my BMW and I would need some support from the forum.

I have a 2015 435d X-Drive F33 M-Sport. I recently changed my rotors and parts (fronts) because I was experiencing vibrations under braking. After 200-300 miles, out of the blue the car started doing it again with the new components.

Some interesting points that I found:

1. This happens after I have been driving for a while at motorway speeds. Suddenly braking results in vibration. I could have been driving for 20 minutes without anything
2. This happens the first time when braking from speeds above 80mph. Then it happens at lower speeds as well.
3. I don't get vibration if I brake while turning.
4. I feel the vibrations on the steering and brake pedal.
5. The braking issue is audible as well.
6. I don't feel that braking performance is compromised.
7. This happens at any drive mode, any gear and any road surface.
8. When the car is not driven for a while (a few hours) this stops and #1 needs to happen.
9. I don't see any suspension or brake related faults through OBD.
10. When braking the whole car shakes quite bad. The vibration is quite violent.
11. I don't experience any vibration of that level during normal driving (not braking).

This is quite puzzling. I took it to a garage and he has no ideas as well. We were thinking that it could be ABS sensors or something, but I get no related faults and I would imagine it would be happening all the time. The rotors are brand new and I haven't hit any potholes, or standing water. The first time it happened after the rotor/pad change it wasn't hard braking. Could it be pistons from the callipers sticking?

Any ideas are more than welcome. I haven't been driving the car for a while and now that I have a chance to enjoy it this happens.

Hi,

First post on this forum because I'm experiencing exactly the same issue on my 435d. Your description is the best and most detailed I could find via Googling and you've been very methodical, too.

Did you ever manage to find a solution?

I'm on a 16 plate and bought the car about 3 months ago. Everything else about the car is perfect. Fingers crossed for both of us that you got it sorted

[das340i]

I am also having the same issue, I've replaced the pads and rotors and they pulsate after they are warm...whole car shakes and such... Thrust arms have already been replaced, calipers are not seized, everything is properly lubricated... Have gone through pads/rotors multiple times as I thought perhaps it was me. I've also measured for run-out on the hub and there was none. I'm not sure what else to do!!!! Love the car but, really want to fix this as well. Thoughts? I'm thinking perhaps speed/abs sensor or perhaps strut mounts.

[fantanas]

Hello both, sorry for the delayed reply and the lack of outcome in this tread.

For me after lots of trial and error, it ended up being a mixup with the part numbers and the rotors that were installed were not 2-part (even though the garage was quite adamant the correct ones are there). When I changed them to the correct ones everything has gone away and the cars works flawlessly. Hopefully the issue you both are seeing is due to this, since it is an easy and relatevely cheap solution.

Based on my understanding you can spot the difference on the part that touches the hub, which has some “rivets” throughout the circumference (I have attached a crude picture to illustrate what I mean). Have a look at the ones you have and you should be able to spot them with the wheels installed.

Let me know how you get on with this and if I can help in any other way

[fantanas]

das340i

Arch Stanton

Arch_Stanton

[das340i]

Thanks you’re the second person to mention that to me about 2 piece

[Arch_Stanton]

Originally Posted by fantanas

Hello both, sorry for the delayed reply and the lack of outcome in this tread.

For me after lots of trial and error, it ended up being a mixup with the part numbers and the rotors that were installed were not 2-part (even though the garage was quite adamant the correct ones are there). When I changed them to the correct ones everything has gone away and the cars works flawlessly. Hopefully the issue you both are seeing is due to this, since it is an easy and relatevely cheap solution.

Based on my understanding you can spot the difference on the part that touches the hub, which has some “rivets” throughout the circumference (I have attached a crude picture to illustrate what I mean). Have a look at the ones you have and you should be able to spot them with the wheels installed.

Let me know how you get on with this and if I can help in any other way

Really, thank you so much for your reply and information. It's very kind of you. Plus great to hear you finally fixed your issue.

I wasn't aware of the difference between 1-piece and 2-piece rotors before.

This evening I've tried my best to photograph them through my tightly clustered multi-spoke alloys. Given I'd only heard of 2-piece rotors an hour ago, my guess from the photos is that I have 2-piece on the front but not the rear?

I've marked the photos with yellow letters. One photo FR + FL for the fronts (they're the same). Yellow RR for rear right and RL for rear left.

That being said, a quick Google on 'Genuine BMW F30 series rotors' shows I might possibly have genuine rotors on front and back already? I mean when comparing my photos with those BMW genuine items for sale on the web (where on the genuine photos the fronts have rivets but the rears don't).

So I'm pondering - in my ignorance - whether I might have BMW rotors all-round already or not?

[das340i]

Have you guys tried replacing the hubs too? I haven't tried this yet but, I am tempted to before I replace the brakes again