[Dollag]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

Add about +6 -!7 db to sink 2 for the phone call volume. Also check your mic and output volume on the NBT sound menu during a call. You may need to turn that up further.

The Mobridge is set so that factory eq via nbt can be maxed without digital clipping. Also recent software updates have more gain available. But you now have a flat signal with no processing to start with.

Try the underseats with +6 db gain compared with your mids as a starting point to restore bass . You may need to flip polarity with mids if your using 12 db filters. But mic / RTA obviously will show what is happening.

Appreciate the advice. Once the weather clears, I think I’ll spend some proper time tuning

[jmciver]

If you were curious, the HK factory tuning does flip the polarity of the underseat woofers. I found out after I had everything hooked up and checked the polarity of all my speakers with an app on my phone. I was curious and checked my wife’s X3 (non-HK) and my X7 (HK) and both of them had the polarity reversed as well.

On my last few tunes, including my current one, after I did all of the baseline EQ tuning I flipped the polarity of the underseat woofers and it improved the sound IMO. Specifically, I noticed the imaging shifted to be more in front of the driver instead of in the center of the dash….

[NealfromNZ]

Did you get a dip on one side with the underseat woofers when in phase ? Left and right ended up having diffferent RTAs when I measured mine. Checked with mic in middle. One side has a dip at 120 ish hertz

[jmciver]

Been a while since I looked at the REW plots. But I seem to remember something like what you are talking about. Playing around with the different filters, including all-pass filters, I was able to smooth most of the dips out a decent amount…

[NealfromNZ]

Thanks, spent yesterday redoing PEQ on each individual drivers. Got these largely with 1 db of predicted target curve. Haven’t checked how they will sum yet , but almost done.

Using REW beta 5.30 2. John Malahy has done a great job of new enhancements.
Measure functionality especially as well as EQ.

[phc77]

I begin the next stage of my installation. The door panels are ready for the addition of the 6.5" on the Match UP 10 subwoofer output, and I add a P3D4-15 cut at 45 hz in a sealed cabinet. I now have what I need to find the right combination for an active 5-way in my car.

For now, the absence of door panels reveals a well-designed hard plastic bracing that reduces the space needed for the woofer enclosure. Does anyone know if there's anything behind the woofer's position?

In any case, the absence of door panels allows me to hear how much the car's environment influences the sound: the bass (original 8" woofers, in parallel) is more punchy, while the 4" (also original) has become very hard, metallic and aggressive.

Furthermore, I'm surprised to find that these 4" speakers are slightly tilted downwards. Is this to hide their aggressiveness in the door panel, or is it necessary for the aesthetics of the door panel?

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by phc77

I begin the next stage of my installation. The door panels are ready for the addition of the 6.5" on the Match UP 10 subwoofer output, and I add a P3D4-15 cut at 45 hz in a sealed cabinet. I now have what I need to find the right combination for an active 5-way in my car.

For now, the absence of door panels reveals a well-designed hard plastic bracing that reduces the space needed for the woofer enclosure. Does anyone know if there's anything behind the woofer's position?

In any case, the absence of door panels allows me to hear how much the car's environment influences the sound: the bass (original 8" woofers, in parallel) is more punchy, while the 4" (also original) has become very hard, metallic and aggressive.

Furthermore, I'm surprised to find that these 4" speakers are slightly tilted downwards. Is this to hide their aggressiveness in the door panel, or is it necessary for the aesthetics of the door panel?

Perhaps start your own build thread

[anielsen71]

Hi guys
Looking at the Mobridge as an alternative to Match Up 10DSP, I see it is rated to 2x300w@4ohm for the underseat subs.
https://mobridge.us/product/mobridge...audi-mercedes/
I know the OEM speakers are prob not rated to 300w, but I should be able to run the Mobridge with the OEM speakers without putting unnecessary strain to the amp right?
And changing the underseats I go for the 4ohm version of the earthquakes right?

[Billfitz]

Why would you think it would strain the amp?
Since it's 4 ohm rated you must use no lower than 4 ohm drivers. However, if you're not using the sub channel to power a trunk sub you could use that for the Earthquakes, wiring them parallel for a 2 ohm load. Personally I don't see needing all those channels if you're not using a trunk sub, and if that's the case there's no point in swapping out the OEM underseats.

[NealfromNZ]

The Mobridge has quite high voltage rails so it’s fine with 8 ohm loads. I think I worked ou 144 rms / 288 peak in 8 ohms. I did run HKs 8 for a month or so and they can take quite a bit of power power. Just don’t run them down to low. They just aren’t a woofer that keeps it together at higher transits and start to sound muddy. I’m not sure about pushing the hifi version too hard as they don’t run vented motor like Hk do.

The Mobridge will also run two ohm loads without issue and will produce more power again. They are running my two ohm Morels and they are an awesome sounding speaker on bass. ( QTC measures at 0.70x in car which is a great point to be on bass)

Be careful with sws with this amp so these don’t get blown as people have done so ( on Match amp with less power ) . I’d enable DRC on the Mobridge to give them some protection on over driving them. Otherwise they will see peaks beyond 300 watts if volume is cranked.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Why would you think it would strain the amp?
Since it's 4 ohm rated you must use no lower than 4 ohm drivers. However, if you're not using the sub channel to power a trunk sub you could use that for the Earthquakes, wiring them parallel for a 2 ohm load. Personally I don't see needing all those channels if you're not using a trunk sub, and if that's the case there's no point in swapping out the OEM underseats.

Hi there
Snipped from post #30
"The Audison woofers aren't any better than the H-K, although they will go louder with the same volume control setting due to their 2 ohm impedance versus the 8 ohm H-K. That's fine if you're using an aftermarket amp that has 2 ohm load capability. Used with the stock H-K amp it would probably overheat."

From your post at #30, I understood that running speakers with lower impedans than the amp is delivering, could cause the amp to overheat.
Overheating the amp due to stressing the amp or am I wrong?

Im not going to use a trunk sub, I plan to use the Mobridge amp instead of the Audio Technics Match up 10DSP since its a bit hard to find. And change the underseat woofers to Earthquakes.
Looking at the specs on the Mobridge, it's spec'd at 300W@4ohm.
With that I need to SWS 8X(4ohm) and not the 8Xi(2ohm) or does it not matter?

[Billfitz]

Your not running drivers with lower impedance than the amp is delivering. The amp doesn't deliver impedance. It delivers current. If the drivers have a lower impedance than the amp is rated for it will deliver too much current, which in the best case will cause it to shut down, worst case it can be damaged.
If the amp you intend to use isn't rated for 2 ohm operation you can't use 2 ohm drivers. You may use a higher impedance driver than the amp is rated for, but not lower.

[anielsen71]

Ok, got it.
The one i'm going to use is rated to 4 ohm.
So I'm going to buy the Earthquake SWS 8X 4 ohms.
Thnx for the explanation.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

Hi there
Snipped from post #30
"The Audison woofers aren't any better than the H-K, although they will go louder with the same volume control setting due to their 2 ohm impedance versus the 8 ohm H-K. That's fine if you're using an aftermarket amp that has 2 ohm load capability. Used with the stock H-K amp it would probably overheat."

From your post at #30, I understood that running speakers with lower impedans than the amp is delivering, could cause the amp to overheat.
Overheating the amp due to stressing the amp or am I wrong?

Im not going to use a trunk sub, I plan to use the Mobridge amp instead of the Audio Technics Match up 10DSP since its a bit hard to find. And change the underseat woofers to Earthquakes.
Looking at the specs on the Mobridge, it's spec'd at 300W@4ohm.
With that I need to SWS 8X(4ohm) and not the 8Xi(2ohm) or does it not matter?

Check with Mobridge and you will find as I did that it’s two ohm stable on any channel. They just spec the power ratings for 4 ohms for consistency. The output devices used will run 2 ohms up. One of the support guys runs 2 ohm Morels in his BMW. I’ve run 2 ohm underseat woofers and 2 ohm trunk sub for the past year.

You can go for either 2 or 4 ohm versions of the earthquakes. What I suggest you do is go with the sws version with a qts of 0.6 rather than 1.0 unless and make that your choice. But hard to tell which is which though. The EU and USA sites differ on these specs.

I think you should check with the orginal OP on the audisons verse HK.

[phc77]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

Hi guys
Looking at the Mobridge as an alternative to Match Up 10DSP, I see it is rated to 2x300w@4ohm for the underseat subs.
...
And changing the underseats I go for the 4ohm version of the earthquakes right?

In my opinion, these are equivalent solutions if we disregard the Mobridge's subwoofer channel, 1x250w RMS@4 ohms and 400w RMS@2ohms, which provides 2 channels of 150w RMS @4ohms. 300w is a misnomer.
The MatchUP10 provides 2 channels of 160w RMS@2ohms and seems more consistent with the choice you've already made to change the subwoofers under the seat.
The Mobridge lets you add a subwoofer later, which will happen if you're a music enthusiast.
But whatever amplifier is used to power the subwoofers, it will generate heat. In the case of the Mobridge, all the amp's channels should be affected, and installing it in the trunk trim won't help matters.
That's why I opted for separate, accessible amplification for the subwoofers.
Keep the underseat woofer and add a subwoofer, that's the way I went. I'd do exactly the same today.

Another thing: the basis of satisfaction in car sound system is knowing your DSP. Although all DSPs offer the basic functions, input/output gain, time alignment, frequency cutoff, etc., the Audiotech Fisher DSP has a virtualization function that makes its possibilities unlimited. Knowing how to use the DSP is a sine qua non for getting the best sound.

In conclusion, whatever your choice, first change your amp, it will ok with your 8 ohms underseat woofer, familiarize yourself with the DSP, invest in an powered microphone, measure the sound in your car, analyze the curves, they will show you the way forward for your system. No brand of loudspeaker, whatever its price, whatever its free-field analysis, will guarantee your satisfaction.

[Billfitz]

A car isn't a recording studio or Carnegie Hall, so expensive measuring tools aren't a necessity. An RTA app will suffice. For non-critical uses I have https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....audioanalyzer
Set it to Spectrum Analyzer, 1/3 octave, C Weighting, Slow Response. Buy or burn a CD with pink noise as the sound source.

[phc77]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

A car isn't a recording studio or Carnegie Hall, so expensive measuring tools aren't a necessity. An RTA app will suffice. For non-critical uses I have https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....audioanalyzer
Set it to Spectrum Analyzer, 1/3 octave, C Weighting, Slow Response. Buy or burn a CD with pink noise as the sound source.

A car isn't a recording studio or Carnegie Hall, it's just worse. But the big top is even worse.
Of course, there are many applications that can be used to analyze many things, but they are DSP tools.
Since the DSP is essential for system control and is included with the amplifier, there's no need to worry about its cost.
Considering the various functions for memorizing settings, the importance of the equalizer, the possibility of autoEQ, the many tests that can be performed live (gain, cutoff frequency, filter, phase...), there's no reason to do without it.
And then there's REW.

[Billfitz]

Considering how many times the average person is going to use measuring tools I don't see the point in spending a lot of money on them. I have REW (which as good as it is pales in comparison to my laboratory grade setup) and I don't even bother using it in my car. My RTA app is adequate for the demands of auto sound analysis.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by phc77

In my opinion, these are equivalent solutions if we disregard the Mobridge's subwoofer channel, 1x250w RMS@4 ohms and 400w RMS@2ohms, which provides 2 channels of 150w RMS @4ohms. 300w is a misnomer.
The MatchUP10 provides 2 channels of 160w RMS@2ohms and seems more consistent with the choice you've already made to change the subwoofers under the seat.
The Mobridge lets you add a subwoofer later, which will happen if you're a music enthusiast.
But whatever amplifier is used to power the subwoofers, it will generate heat. In the case of the Mobridge, all the amp's channels should be affected, and installing it in the trunk trim won't help matters.
That's why I opted for separate, accessible amplification for the subwoofers.
Keep the underseat woofer and add a subwoofer, that's the way I went. I'd do exactly the same today.

Another thing: the basis of satisfaction in car sound system is knowing your DSP. Although all DSPs offer the basic functions, input/output gain, time alignment, frequency cutoff, etc., the Audiotech Fisher DSP has a virtualization function that makes its possibilities unlimited. Knowing how to use the DSP is a sine qua non for getting the best sound.

In conclusion, whatever your choice, first change your amp, it will ok with your 8 ohms underseat woofer, familiarize yourself with the DSP, invest in an powered microphone, measure the sound in your car, analyze the curves, they will show you the way forward for your system. No brand of loudspeaker, whatever its price, whatever its free-field analysis, will guarantee your satisfaction.

Hi there
Thnx for your comments.
In the equation is also that the Matchup10 gets harder and harder to find…at least here in Europe.
Also a reason why I look into the Mobridge amp.

[NealfromNZ]

With the all in one box heat isn’t hasn’t been an issue within the last year of ownership. The amp doesn’t get hot even at high spl but that’s the thing with these high efficiency amps. Was the same with my previous system . The A/B amp would get quite warm that was running components but the class D sub wouldn’t produce much heat even for even loud listening.

Remember that the area where the factory amp is where the car ventilation exists it’s stale air so there is plenty of airflow. The factory bracket allows for passive cooling of the surface under the amp if used.

There are differences between the dsps for sure. Helix does have virtual channels and comprehensive input routing, but conversely Mobridge takes all the BMW digital audio channels ( all four Sinks plus the audio ) and lets you route them to any speaker channel.

Helix / SMDi25 won’t do the following using digital audio from Idrive due the stereo downmix where as Mobridge will

1. Rear PDC still comes from rear speakers
2. Nav / chime / announcement come from drivers door
3. Hands Free audio can be routed to front does
4. Retains factory fader control
5. Two DSP maps are togggled off the idrive HK surround setting button
6. Can run the factory 2 ohm speaker load presented by BMW Touring HK roof speakers
7. Adjustable volume over and above idrive volume for PDC, Gong , Nav, Handsfree

Match needs an additional controller for some of those features or coding to hifi but BMWs digital signal is a step up over its analog signal when used in hifi coding.

At this stage Mobridge only has
8 channels of audio available for speakers within the cabin but watch this space.

Eitherway the two choice of either amp have merits and are excellent options, but learning how to tune the system or having an installer is important to get the best out of them can yield excellent results.

Digital audio , DSP , time alignment ( especially midbass ) clean phase transition ( mids to woofers to sub ) and fine tuning speaker gains ( tune to a house curve ) more headroom from more powerful amps all add up.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

A car isn't a recording studio or Carnegie Hall, so expensive measuring tools aren't a necessity. An RTA app will suffice. For non-critical uses I have https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....audioanalyzer
Set it to Spectrum Analyzer, 1/3 octave, C Weighting, Slow Response. Buy or burn a CD with pink noise as the sound source.

Hi there
Do you know of a similar tool for apple devices?

[Arthurrs]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

Hi there
Do you know of a similar tool for apple devices?

Audio tools from Studio Six Digital would definitely fit your needs! The base package includes a very handy RTA.

https://studiosixdigital.com/

Full disclosure, I'm one of their beta testers and listed consultants.