[Syztra]

2018 BMW 340ix with grey calipers. I noticed orange m performance (34112221447) brake caliper set is relatively cheap for a big brake upgrade for the 340. It shows the parts will fit a 340i but does not specify it wont fit an xdrive. Is there really a difference between a 340i's braking system, compared to a 340ix.

[White435]

No difference between RWD and X-Drive although M Performance brakes require at least 18" OEM BMW wheels. If you run aftermarket wheels make sure they clear bigger brakes.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Syztra

2018 BMW 340ix with grey calipers. I noticed orange m performance (34112221447) brake caliper set is relatively cheap for a big brake upgrade for the 340. It shows the parts will fit a 340i but does not specify it wont fit an xdrive. Is there really a difference between a 340i's braking system, compared to a 340ix.

No difference in brake systems at all. You have front 340mm x 30mm and rear 330x20. The M Performance Kit calipers are identical to blue M Sport calipers on 340i/ix. F370x30/R345x24

From a braking performance standpoint, the improvement comes from the rear Brembo 2-piston calipers 345x24. The performance of the Front 340’s and 370’s is pretty much identical, even identical brake pads. Larger rotors are for show unless you are tracking where the extra mass helps keep off brake fade.

The F340/R330 will nosedive under heavy braking. But the F340/R345 and the F370/R345 will squat very controllably when you stand on the brakes.

The Front dimpled/slotted rotors in the kit are actually noisy and not much of an improvement. They are a BMW Marketing ploy. BMW actually puts full crossdrilled rotors on M3/M4 because they are best for street. Best bite and best in rain. StopTech makes excellent full crossdrilled.

The pads in the kit are no better than average. Hawk 5.0 are much better street pads.

So from a performance standpoint the BMW MPBBK is not a bargain. Better performance can be had by buying a used set of rear 345’s for about $500, StopTech crossdrilled rotors, Hawk 5.0 pads for $250 and StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $120. Paint them any color with G2USA Caliper Paint.

A full set of used F370/R345 calipers, usually in blue, is about $1200-$1300 if you want the larger front rotors.

Paragon has the best bang for the buck brake upgrades for the F3x. Less expensive and more versatile than either BremboGT or StopTech BBK. Paragon makes full crossdrilled rotors on request for the street too.

Paragon makes full floating front 340mm and 370mm rotors too. Great upgrade. Saves 3lbs/corner. I’d order them in full crossdrilled and with anti-rust coating.

[Syztra]

Originally Posted by johnung

No difference in brake systems at all. You have front 340mm x 30mm and rear 330x20. The M Performance Kit calipers are identical to blue M Sport calipers on 340i/ix. F370x30/R345x24

From a braking performance standpoint, the improvement comes from the rear Brembo 2-piston calipers 345x24. The performance of the Front 340’s and 370’s is pretty much identical, even identical brake pads. Larger rotors are for show unless you are tracking where the extra mass helps keep off brake fade.

The F340/R330 will nosedive under heavy braking. But the F340/R345 and the F370/R345 will squat very controllably when you stand on the brakes.

The Front dimpled/slotted rotors in the kit are actually noisy and not much of an improvement. They are a BMW Marketing ploy. BMW actually puts full crossdrilled rotors on M3/M4 because they are best for street. Best bite and best in rain. StopTech makes excellent full crossdrilled.

The pads in the kit are no better than average. Hawk 5.0 are much better street pads.

So from a performance standpoint the BMW MPBBK is not a bargain. Better performance can be had by buying a used set of rear 345’s for about $500, StopTech crossdrilled rotors, Hawk 5.0 pads for $250 and StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $120. Paint them any color with G2USA Caliper Paint.

A full set of used F370/R345 calipers, usually in blue, is about $1200-$1300 if you want the larger front rotors.

Paragon has the best bang for the buck brake upgrades for the F3x. Less expensive and more versatile than either BremboGT or StopTech BBK. Paragon makes full crossdrilled rotors on request for the street too.

Paragon makes full floating front 340mm and 370mm rotors too. Great upgrade. Saves 3lbs/corner. I’d order them in full crossdrilled and with anti-rust coating.

So with that being said Is there any difference between the part number (34112221447) which is only like $1500 bucks and has the same description as part number (34112450470) which cost $3000 dollars more

[Th3Walrus]

34112221447 is discontinued and no longer available. I inquired through BMW Grand River in Kitchener last June.

[toxik]

Originally Posted by Syztra

So with that being said Is there any difference between the part number (34112221447) which is only like $1500 bucks and has the same description as part number (34112450470) which cost $3000 dollars more

the cheaper part number was part of a discontinued first run of orange BBKs, eventually BMW replaced them with a new part number and that's when they discounted the first one. a bunch of us (including myself) were able to get some of the last stock of orange BBKs for very cheap, I personally paid $1100 out the door through my friend who is a BMW parts dealer. This was back in October of 2021. At the time he told me he checked the system and there were only 6 total sets left in United States. A few other forum members were able to snag them up as well, if you're finding this discounted price online it may be just outdated listings that don't reflect actual inventory. if I were you I'd call the actual dealer/website to ask them that.

I've had the BBK on for almost a year now with no issue (I'm also xdrive btw) so I'm not sure why BMW discontinued one part number and replaced it with another Orange BBK Part Number. I'm sure they changed something but who knows what it is? They certainly aren't defective. if I had to guess it's something minor like maybe the shade of orange they use? Not sure.


Hope that clears it up for you.

[Syztra]

Originally Posted by toxik

the cheaper part number was part of a discontinued first run of orange BBKs, eventually BMW replaced them with a new part number and that's when they discounted the first one. a bunch of us (including myself) were able to get some of the last stock of orange BBKs for very cheap, I personally paid $1100 out the door through my friend who is a BMW parts dealer. This was back in October of 2021. At the time he told me he checked the system and there were only 6 total sets left in United States. A few other forum members were able to snag them up as well, if you're finding this discounted price online it may be just outdated listings that don't reflect actual inventory. if I were you I'd call the actual dealer/website to ask them that.

I've had the BBK on for almost a year now with no issue (I'm also xdrive btw) so I'm not sure why BMW discontinued one part number and replaced it with another Orange BBK Part Number. I'm sure they changed something but who knows what it is? They certainly aren't defective. if I had to guess it's something minor like maybe the shade of orange they use? Not sure.


Hope that clears it up for you.

Hey thank you, that clears up a lot. There is a dealer selling some for relatively cheap and I want to pick them up. Just as a last question it comes with the calipers, rotors, and pads? And would you have to do any coding to the braking system on the vehicle? If so how and where would you get it done. I’m only aware of BimmerCode at the moment and I’m sure it’s probably not through them lol

[toxik]

Originally Posted by Syztra

Hey thank you, that clears up a lot. There is a dealer selling some for relatively cheap and I want to pick them up. Just as a last question it comes with the calipers, rotors, and pads? And would you have to do any coding to the braking system on the vehicle? If so how and where would you get it done. I’m only aware of BimmerCode at the moment and I’m sure it’s probably not through them lol

Are you sure the dealer has actual inventory? I would call them to double check that.

As far as the BBK kits, you'll need to buy rear rotors, it comes with everything else; calipers, pads, dust shields, brake sensors, front rotors. They do require coding, to tell your ABS module that you now have 2 piston calipers. Coding is done via ISTA. Are you planning on installing these yourself? If not, easiest thing to do is to choose a BMW-centric shop that is able to do coding for you. A dealer can install them too of course. It's hard to bleed the brake system properly without BMW software, if you take it to a random shop who don't usually work on these types of cars. There are a few forum members that offer remote coding as well, if you can't get a shop or dealer to code it for you.

[Syztra]

Originally Posted by toxik

Are you sure the dealer has actual inventory? I would call them to double check that.

As far as the BBK kits, you'll need to buy rear rotors, it comes with everything else; calipers, pads, dust shields, brake sensors, front rotors. They do require coding, to tell your ABS module that you now have 2 piston calipers. Coding is done via ISTA. Are you planning on installing these yourself? If not, easiest thing to do is to choose a BMW-centric shop that is able to do coding for you. A dealer can install them too of course. It's hard to bleed the brake system properly without BMW software, if you take it to a random shop who don't usually work on these types of cars. There are a few forum members that offer remote coding as well, if you can't get a shop or dealer to code it for you.

Yeah so the kit comes with literally everything except rear rotors? I noticed on the dealers website it show they are available and you can buy them, I wonder how common it is for them to not have them in stock but to still be selling them. I guess I’ll have to reach out tomorrow because today dealers are closed lol. I will be installing them myself, I have connections to a legitimate mechanic shop where I work on my cars. I’ll have to look into bleeding the brakes properly and definitely reach out to some people for coding if I get the brake kit.

[toxik]

Originally Posted by Syztra

Yeah so the kit comes with literally everything except rear rotors? I noticed on the dealers website it show they are available and you can buy them, I wonder how common it is for them to not have them in stock but to still be selling them. I guess I’ll have to reach out tomorrow because today dealers are closed lol. I will be installing them myself, I have connections to a legitimate mechanic shop where I work on my cars. I’ll have to look into bleeding the brakes properly and definitely reach out to some people for coding if I get the brake kit.

Yeah, that's why I ask because US based BMW dealers all show parts that are No Longer Available as in stock all the time. Can't even tell you how many times I had to text my parts manager just for him to check real availability for me in his internal BMW dealer system.

For a 340i, you will need these rear rotors: 34206797600. I went with the OE option, getting Brembo rear rotors (they are identical to OEM BMW as they are made by Brembo, just no BMW logo on them). Part Number is 09.C395.13. Be careful as there are much cheaper versions of same rotors available from other manufacturers, they are cheaper because OEM rotor is a 2-piece aluminum hat and steel face rotor. the cheaper aftermarket alternatives are just a 1-piece all steel rotor, so the hat will show rust. Not the end of the world if you want to save some money, but they won't fully match your front rotors.

Kies has a good DIY video for brake install:

Basically what they do to avoid having air get into the system when you disconnect the brake lines, you need to have a stick depressing the brake pedal during install. This will help you not have air in the system.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Syztra

Hey thank you, that clears up a lot. There is a dealer selling some for relatively cheap and I want to pick them up. Just as a last question it comes with the calipers, rotors, and pads? And would you have to do any coding to the braking system on the vehicle? If so how and where would you get it done. I’m only aware of BimmerCode at the moment and I’m sure it’s probably not through them lol

If you have Brembo front calipers now, then no e-sys coding is necessary. The coding isn’t for specific calipers. It is for the front/rear brake bias ratio. A car that came with a front Brembo caliper already received the correct code (2NH) at the factory.

It’s important to replace the brake fluid every two years for safety. It picks up moisture over time. Typical brake bleeding will not clear the air bubbles that cling to the walls of the brake system. It’s important to follow the ISTA procedure that shakes the bubbles loose. See video below.

If you buy the M Performance BBK, you will find instructions that say that they must be coded. They have to say that. Again, not necessary if your car came with front Brembo calipers

Discounted M Performance BBK
https://www.getbmwparts.com/c-brakes-87

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

Again, not necessary if your car came with front Brembo calipers

How do you know this? OP is going from 330mm -> 345 mm in the rear and his rears would be larger than fronts. That seems like a pretty big deal.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by rlesko

How do you know this? OP is going from 330mm -> 345 mm in the rear and his rears would be larger than fronts. That seems like a pretty big deal.

Because I did this same upgrade on my car four years ago. 340 & 345 are just the rotor diameters. The front brakes are 4-piston Brembos over 340x30 rotors. Rears are 2-piston Brembos over 345x24 rotors. So fronts are more powerful calipers and thicker rotors with more mass, as would be expected.

[lens]

Originally Posted by rlesko

How do you know this? OP is going from 330mm -> 345 mm in the rear and his rears would be larger than fronts. That seems like a pretty big deal.

M235i/M240i comes with 340mm fronts, 345mm rears from the factory. He'd be fine.

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

Because I did this same upgrade on my car four years ago. 340 & 345 are just the rotor diameters. The front brakes are 4-piston Brembos over 340x30 rotors. Rears are 2-piston Brembos over 345x24 rotors. So fronts are more powerful calipers and thicker rotors with more mass, as would be expected.

I understand that, but how are you telling the car that you now have two pistons brakes in the rear instead of one? Seems like the car should know about the equipment on it. Furthermore, people reported lots of squishy brakes in the retrofit thread which lends itself to supporting the idea that the car should know about the equipment it has (via coding).

Originally Posted by lens

M235i/M240i comes with 340mm fronts, 345mm rears from the factory. He'd be fine.

I know. the question is- how is that coded? Likely different than 330x20.

[toxik]

there is coding to tell the car about larger rear rotors/2 piston calipers, per BMW its to adjust brake bias for ABS. if you have the opportunity to get the coding done, I say do it just to be "compliant and true"

at this point I've seen more than enough people post that they don't feel a difference with the coding done, I wouldn't be too concerned if my car wasn't coded for the larger rear brakes.

By the way, one cool thing is after I got my car coded for the BBK, my car avatar in the "My BMW" app has changed and shows the blue bbk on it now. Before it would just have the regular silver brakes. I found it pretty cool. Did anyone else notice this?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by rlesko

I know. the question is- how is that coded? Likely different than 330x20.

The F3x has different brake caliper/rotor combinations:

FRONT
Brembo 4-piston 370x30
Brembo 4-piston 340x30
Bosch 1-piston 330x24
Bosch 1-piston 312x24

REAR
Brembo 2-piston 345x24
Bosch 1-piston 330x20
Bosch 1-piston 300x20

You are making the assumption that the car needs to know exactly which of the four front and three rear brakes that it has. IT DOES NOT! There are no choices within the coding application to tell the car exactly which of these seven brakes it has, because BMW factory engineers determined that it is not necessary.

The car only cares about which of two brake bias settings to use. Brake bias is a ratio between the front and rear brakes. Coding is done within the e-sys application. There are only two choices:
A) If the car has front Brembo brakes. That code is 2NH.
B) If the car does not have front Brembo brakes, the code is something else.

So if an F3x came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes (either grey or blue), its brake bias code from the factory already is 2NH.

So that car’s front brakes could be changed from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, AND/OR (if it’s rear brakes are Bosch 330) it’s rear brakes could be changed from Bosch 330 to Brembo 345, and NO CODING WOULD BE NEEDED!

If someone hooked up e-sys and went into a car that came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes, its brake bias code would already be “2NH”. There would be absolutely nothing to change!

When people report issues after upgrading front Brembo 340’s to Brembo 370’s, other than installation issues like poorly applied brake paste, it’s almost 100% of the time due to only an incomplete bleeding of the brakes, NOT A CODING ISSUE.

The BMW ISTA brake bleeding procedure must be followed to shake off the air bubbles clinging to the inside walls of the brake components like the ABS. See video below

Just last week, there was a post where the owner DID see a big improvement after coding after he had upgraded front Brembo 340’s to Brembo 370’s. This was baffling at first.

Later it was determined that the car actually came from the factory with front Bosch brakes. A previous owner had actually upgraded the front brakes to Brembo 340’s, but had failed to have the brake bias coded to 2NH. So when the new owner upgraded the fronts from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, he had to have the brake bias coded to 2NH because the previous car owner had failed to do so.

Hope this helps!.

[toxik]

Originally Posted by johnung

The F3x has different brake caliper/rotor combinations:

FRONT
Brembo 4-piston 370x30
Brembo 4-piston 340x30
Bosch 1-piston 330x24
Bosch 1-piston 312x24

REAR
Brembo 2-piston 345x24
Bosch 1-piston 330x20
Bosch 1-piston 300x20

You are making the assumption that the car needs to know exactly which of the four front and three rear brakes that it has. IT DOES NOT! There are no choices within the coding application to tell the car exactly which of these seven brakes it has, because BMW factory engineers determined that it is not necessary.

The car only cares about which of two brake bias settings to use. Brake bias is a ratio between the front and rear brakes. Coding is done within the e-sys application. There are only two choices:
A) If the car has front Brembo brakes. That code is 2NH.
B) If the car does not have front Brembo brakes, the code is something else.

So if an F3x came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes (either grey or blue), its brake bias code from the factory already is 2NH.

So that car’s front brakes could be changed from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, AND/OR (if it’s rear brakes are Bosch 330) it’s rear brakes could be changed from Bosch 330 to Brembo 345, and NO CODING WOULD BE NEEDED!

If someone hooked up e-sys and went into a car that came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes, its brake bias code would already be “2NH”. There would be absolutely nothing to change!

When people report issues after upgrading front Brembo 340’s to Brembo 370’s, other than installation issues like poorly applied brake paste, it’s almost 100% of the time due to only an incomplete bleeding of the brakes, NOT A CODING ISSUE.

The BMW ISTA brake bleeding procedure must be followed to shake off the air bubbles clinging to the inside walls of the brake components like the ABS. See video below

Just last week, there was a post where the owner DID see a big improvement after coding after he had upgraded front Brembo 340’s to Brembo 370’s. This was baffling at first.

Later it was determined that the car actually came from the factory with front Bosch brakes. A previous owner had actually upgraded the front brakes to Brembo 340’s, but had failed to have the brake bias coded to 2NH. So when the new owner upgraded the fronts from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, he had to have the brake bias coded to 2NH because the previous car owner had failed to do so.

Hope this helps!.

hey johnung, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there is specific parameters in the DSC CAFD file that need to be changed.

C_Variante_Bremsscheibe_vorne_e 30/370
C_Variante_Bremsscheibe_hinten_e 24/345.

from what I understand, the only time this wouldn't need to be changed is if your car has the THP with blue brakes.

but like you said, from what I read people who have done the coding have not noticed any difference.

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

You are making the assumption that the car needs to know exactly which of the four front and three rear brakes that it has. IT DOES NOT! There are no choices within the coding application to tell the car exactly which of these seven brakes it has, because BMW factory engineers determined that it is not necessary.

The car only cares about which of two brake bias settings to use. Brake bias is a ratio between the front and rear brakes. Coding is done within the e-sys application. There are only two choices:
A) If the car has front Brembo brakes. That code is 2NH.
B) If the car does not have front Brembo brakes, the code is something else.

So if an F3x came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes (either grey or blue), its brake bias code from the factory already is 2NH.

So that car’s front brakes could be changed from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, AND/OR (if it’s rear brakes are Bosch 330) it’s rear brakes could be changed from Bosch 330 to Brembo 345, and NO CODING WOULD BE NEEDED!

Hope this helps!.

Originally Posted by toxik

hey johnung, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there is specific parameters in the DSC CAFD file that need to be changed.

C_Variante_Bremsscheibe_vorne_e 30/370
C_Variante_Bremsscheibe_hinten_e 24/345.

from what I understand, the only time this wouldn't need to be changed is if your car has the THP with blue brakes.

but like you said, from what I read people who have done the coding have not noticed any difference.

Toxik just said what I was going to bring up.

I understand that the factory isn't FDL coding values in front/rear, but if the value is there in the CAFD file, I'm confused why the car DSC wouldn't use/act on a value programmed in it.

It seems strange but you could be right. I am definitely going to FDL code 345/24 in the rear when I upgrade my rear brakes.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by toxik

hey johnung, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there is specific parameters in the DSC CAFD file that need to be changed.

C_Variante_Bremsscheibe_vorne_e 30/370
C_Variante_Bremsscheibe_hinten_e 24/345.

from what I understand, the only time this wouldn't need to be changed is if your car has the THP with blue brakes.

but like you said, from what I read people who have done the coding have not noticed any difference.

That’s interesting! I’m not hands-on with e-sys. I heard it from two different very experienced factory trained techs who helped me with successive brake upgrades starting over 4 years ago. I’ve been repeating it ever since including to guys who do a lot with e-sys and no one has disagreed.
I know that the Brembo brake bias is supposed to be 2NH. Do you guys know what the non-Brembo setting is? If you could send a screenshot of how it looks in the app that would be awesome. I often send photos to explain things. Last time my buddy had e-sys open for something else, we ran out of time. Thanks!

[toxik]

Originally Posted by johnung

That’s interesting! I’m not hands-on with e-sys. I heard it from two different very experienced factory trained techs who helped me with successive brake upgrades starting over 4 years ago. I’ve been repeating it ever since including to guys who do a lot with e-sys and no one has disagreed.
I know that the Brembo brake bias is supposed to be 2NH. Do you guys know what the non-Brembo setting is? If you could send a screenshot of how it looks in the app that would be awesome. I often send photos to explain things. Last time my buddy had e-sys open for something else, we ran out of time. Thanks!

from another coding thread, I personally didn't do the coding for my MPBBK, as the shop I used for installation includes coding with the install.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by toxik

from another coding thread, I personally didn't do the coding for my MPBBK, as the shop I used for installation includes coding with the install.

Thanks! Is there a location where you have seen the “2NH” setting?