[lens]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

Squeaking has returned.

It's only about 1/10th of what it was, but it seems endemic to semi-metallic pads.

Semi metallic pads will squeal every now and then.

I normally stick to ceramic pads. Unfortunately my car came with stock brakes and stuff so I got the semi metallic posi quiet pads lol

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by charlie fairmont

Did you hose everything down in brake cleaner or just add more paste?

I followed TIS, and used brake clean along with greasing all the contact surfaces.

[nahtanoj1]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

Hey Johnung - Another question - the getbmwparts website suggests that I need to have my DSC recoded:

"BMW recommends having the brake/DSC module re-coded to match these bigger brakes. This can be done at the BMW dealer."

Is this needed for my particular setup, where I am going from F340/R330 to F370/R345? Thanks for all of your help!!

Hi again Johnung - So I finally got my whole brake kit upgraded and it feels better than the old kit and looks great too! (no highway breaking yet which is where I expect to get a better sense of the performance) The mechanic said he had a hard time doing the power bleed but eventually got it done. I was away after the upgrade and have just started driving the new setup and unfortunately I'm getting loud clicking noises apparent as the pads shift around in the calipers when applying or taking foot off brake pedal at various speeds. It's quite noticeable and I even *think* I can hear a rattle when going over smaller potholes as well. The mechanic mentioned that he had a hard time fitting the pads in with the metal shims (too thick) so he did not use the shims (he even called the manufacturers and spoke to someone). I did notice that the shims on the Hawk pads were loose in the box as they came shipped to me but not being a brake expert thought that was normal and I have since learned that it is on higher end pads. I mention that now because the BMW OEM pads that came with the BBK that I had planned to sell are not that way and the shims (metal backing) is adhered to the OEM pads. So, the question is - Does it make sense that the Hawk pads w/shims would not fit the MSport calipers with the Stop tech Rotors? and what can be done to get a tighter fit to eliminate the click clack sounds? Any other advice you can give about the problem I am facing would be great and thanks again for your help.

[SGoodman23]

Hey, just curious were you able to fix the issue and if so, what was the fix? Have been thinking about doing your brake upgrade path.

[terryd5150]

So, is the consensus still that there is no coding required when switching from gray Brembos to the M-Performance Brembo kit?

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

So, is the consensus still that there is no coding required when switching from gray Brembos to the M-Performance Brembo kit?

No, you should code HO-WORT with SPBR.

[oranga]

johnung Can you confirm if the Stoptech 128.34144 rotors that you have been suggesting are 2 piece semi-floating like OEM? I've been googling and I can't seem to get a solid answer.

I want cross-drilled based on what you and others are saying, but those Stoptechs are basically the only option. And they are not cheap compared to blank rotors! I think I could justify it if they are 2-piece, but if they are 1-piece, then I think i'll look elsewhere.

[toxik]

Originally Posted by oranga

johnung Can you confirm if the Stoptech 128.34144 rotors that you have been suggesting are 2 piece semi-floating like OEM? I've been googling and I can't seem to get a solid answer.

I want cross-drilled based on what you and others are saying, but those Stoptechs are basically the only option. And they are not cheap compared to blank rotors! I think I could justify it if they are 2-piece, but if they are 1-piece, then I think i'll look elsewhere.

i think their weight would be more important than being a 1 or 2 piece design. i have the OEM 2 piece rotors, and I believe the weight savings are negligible but one upside is the hat will not rust due to it being aluminum. stoptechs have painted hats, so they essentially have the same benefit, and at the end of the day their weight could be comparable to an OEM 2 piece rotor.

there are more expensive 2 piece rotor options, like the ones ECS sells, which look like a real 2 piece rotor to me: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...09607ecs01akt/

in comparison, the stoptechs are cheap to those.

[RbBugBitMe]

Originally Posted by oranga

johnung Can you confirm if the Stoptech 128.34144 rotors that you have been suggesting are 2 piece semi-floating like OEM? I've been googling and I can't seem to get a solid answer.

I want cross-drilled based on what you and others are saying, but those Stoptechs are basically the only option. And they are not cheap compared to blank rotors! I think I could justify it if they are 2-piece, but if they are 1-piece, then I think i'll look elsewhere.

They're iron 1 piece rotors. 26+lbs

[oranga]

Originally Posted by toxik

i think their weight would be more important than being a 1 or 2 piece design. i have the OEM 2 piece rotors, and I believe the weight savings are negligible but one upside is the hat will not rust due to it being aluminum. stoptechs have painted hats, so they essentially have the same benefit, and at the end of the day their weight could be comparable to an OEM 2 piece rotor.

there are more expensive 2 piece rotor options, like the ones ECS sells, which look like a real 2 piece rotor to me: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...09607ecs01akt/

in comparison, the stoptechs are cheap to those.

Yeah, you’re right, my main concern is the weight. The stoptechs weigh about 26lbs, but what do the OEM 2-piece rotors weigh?

[toxik]

Originally Posted by oranga

Yeah, you’re right, my main concern is the weight. The stoptechs weigh about 26lbs, but what do the OEM 2-piece rotors weigh?

probably the same, here’s a reference pic. that’s what i was actually talking about with no weight advantage

[RbBugBitMe]

Yes they are pretty much identical which means the Stoptech vane area likely has more airflow area (less thermal mass where it counts too but you're not tracking these) and the cross drills are removing more material than dimples.

[AspektUSA]

The nice thing about brake discs is that over time they actually get lighter with use.

[RbBugBitMe]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

The nice thing about brake discs is that over time they actually get lighter with use.

Lighter but also run hotter.

[Dagstar]

Originally Posted by oranga

johnung Can you confirm if the Stoptech 128.34144 rotors that you have been suggesting are 2 piece semi-floating like OEM? I've been googling and I can't seem to get a solid answer.

I want cross-drilled based on what you and others are saying, but those Stoptechs are basically the only option. And they are not cheap compared to blank rotors! I think I could justify it if they are 2-piece, but if they are 1-piece, then I think i'll look elsewhere.

I weighed my StopTech M Performance sized rotors before installing and the fronts (370mm) were 28.5lbs and rears (345mm) 21.5lbs. You can probably knock off a few ounces from those numbers as I was just looking for a ballpark weight and didn't remove them from their plastic bags at the time. They can be found much cheaper (sub $200) on Amazon than any other place but I've seen the prices fluxuate.

[Eschmacher]

Just as another point of data for people, I just weighed my blank pagid "2-piece" 370mm rotors, got 27.5lbs in the box.

Will weigh the rears when I get them next week.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

Hi again Johnung - So I finally got my whole brake kit upgraded and it feels better than the old kit and looks great too! (no highway breaking yet which is where I expect to get a better sense of the performance) The mechanic said he had a hard time doing the power bleed but eventually got it done. I was away after the upgrade and have just started driving the new setup and unfortunately I'm getting loud clicking noises apparent as the pads shift around in the calipers when applying or taking foot off brake pedal at various speeds. It's quite noticeable and I even *think* I can hear a rattle when going over smaller potholes as well. The mechanic mentioned that he had a hard time fitting the pads in with the metal shims (too thick) so he did not use the shims (he even called the manufacturers and spoke to someone). I did notice that the shims on the Hawk pads were loose in the box as they came shipped to me but not being a brake expert thought that was normal and I have since learned that it is on higher end pads. I mention that now because the BMW OEM pads that came with the BBK that I had planned to sell are not that way and the shims (metal backing) is adhered to the OEM pads. So, the question is - Does it make sense that the Hawk pads w/shims would not fit the MSport calipers with the Stop tech Rotors? and what can be done to get a tighter fit to eliminate the click clack sounds? Any other advice you can give about the problem I am facing would be great and thanks again for your help.

What you are calling shims seems to be the steel backing plate that should be bonded to the brake pad material. If it wasn’t then send it back.

Check all part numbers. It makes no sense that pads would slide right in to calipers unless something is the wrong part/size. Or maybe the installer didn’t compress/retract the pistons back enough into the caliper.

Noise is usually poor application of brake paste.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

So, is the consensus still that there is no coding required when switching from gray Brembos to the M-Performance Brembo kit?

If a car came from the factory with front Brembo calipers then no additional coding is necessary. It already has the coding needed.

The following F3x brake combinations all utilize the same coding. So moving from one to another does not require coding.

Front 370x30, Rear 345x24
Front 340x30, Rear 345x24
Front 340x30, Rear 330x20

But if you have any of the following non-Brembo combinations, then coding is necessary if you upgrade to any one of the Brembo combinations above.

Front 330x24, Rear 330x20
Front 330x24, Rear 300x20
Front 312x24, Rear 300x20

This is not BiimerCode type coding. It’s done with E-Sys and very simple for any BMW shop to do.

[johnung]

It is important to understand that facts can be theoretically correct, but are they consequential or in inconsequential? Do they matter in a particular situation or not?

So yes, dimpled are lighter than plain rotors because material is removed. And full crossdrilled is lighter than both of them because more material is removed. And 2-piece riveted rotors are lighter than 1-piece rotors because aluminum hats are lighter than steel hats. And 340mm front rotors are lighter than 370mm front rotors.

Less weight is better, right? So it’s hugely important to choose all of the lowest weight options for my daily driver, right? WRONG! These choices are inconsequential! You couldn’t do a blind test behind the wheel and feel any substantial improvement.

Guys who are fixated on the fact that a 1-piece rotor might weigh a couple pounds more than a 2-piece riveted rotor, are not understanding two important things:

1) That is too little unsprung weight savings to make a noticeable difference.

2) Reduction in rotational mass does make a noticeable difference, but it has the least amount of impact if the savings happens near the center of the hub. That’s why lighter weight wheels and tires that rotate further away from hub center do make a noticeable difference.

Often when you read theoretical stuff it important to understand if they are talking about dedicated race cars where they might spend $10k on a custom titanium suspension piece to save a few ounces. Most of the theoretical is interesting to read. But only a small subset is applicable to street cars.

Here’s a more practical F30 street & track example.

Below are three F30 brake options using Brembo calipers (& one Bosch)

1) Front 370x30, Rear 345x24
2) Front 340x30, Rear 345x24
3) Front 340x30, Rear 330x20

Upgrading from #3 to #2, would be smart because the improvement would be noticeable. In heavy braking instead of nose diving, the car will squat very controllably to a stop.

Upgrading from #2 to #1, would not provide a noticeable improvement on the street. The calipers have the same number and size pistons and identical brake pads are used with similar swept area to brake. So the most common reason for this upgrade is the looks of a larger diameter 370mm rotor vs the smaller 340mm.

BUT if the car was being tracked, there would be a noticeable difference. The 370 rotors have more mass to take in and then dissipate more heat from repetitive high speed braking. Rotors with more mass do not exhibit brake fade as quickly under extreme conditions on the track.

So it might be a 5lb weight increase to upgrade from a 340mm to a 370mm rotor.

But the daily driver who claims to be concerned about unsprung weight will gladly upgrade to the much more attractive large 370mm rotors.

And the tracker who is definitely concerned about unsprung weight/rotational mass will gladly “spend” that extra 5 lbs of weight per rotor to gain more rotor mass to prevent brake fade on the track!

In fact, the next step up for trackers would be to go from Brembo 370x30 to Paragon 378x36 rotors that have even more mass to handle heat. But they are spending thousands of dollars more for high tech low weight Paragon 6-piston calipers with full floating (not riveted!) larger thicker 378x36 rotors that actually weich 3.5 lbs less than 370x30 Brembo rotors.

Hope this helps!

[Eschmacher]

Originally Posted by johnung

If a car came from the factory with front Brembo calipers then no additional coding is necessary. It already has the coding needed.

The following F3x brake combinations all utilize the same coding. So moving from one to another does not require coding.

Front 370x30, Rear 345x24
Front 340x30, Rear 345x24
Front 340x30, Rear 330x20

But if you have any of the following non-Brembo combinations, then coding is necessary if you upgrade to any one of the Brembo combinations above.

Front 330x24, Rear 330x20
Front 330x24, Rear 300x20
Front 312x24, Rear 300x20

This is not BiimerCode type coding. It’s done with E-Sys and very simple for any BMW shop to do.

Just so you know there is a coding change for the cars with 330mm rear when you move to 345mm caliper.

DSC_CODIERDATEN_ALLGEMEIN 3000 > C_Variante_Bremssattel_hinten_e = P2.44 (02)

If moving up to 370/345 from 340/330, I'd recommend the following as well, as it seems to modify pedal pressure:
DSC_CODIERDATEN_ALLGEMEIN 3000 > C_Cp_Hinterachse = 1690 (06)
DSC_CODIERDATEN_ALLGEMEIN 3000 > C_Cp_Vorderachse = 3270 (0C)

These are applied when you VO code 2NH or HO code SPBR.

We investigated this in another thread. It's best to HO code SPBR if your vehicle didn't come with 2NH from the factory.

[terryd5150]

Originally Posted by toxik

i think their weight would be more important than being a 1 or 2 piece design. i have the OEM 2 piece rotors, and I believe the weight savings are negligible but one upside is the hat will not rust due to it being aluminum. stoptechs have painted hats, so they essentially have the same benefit, and at the end of the day their weight could be comparable to an OEM 2 piece rotor.

there are more expensive 2 piece rotor options, like the ones ECS sells, which look like a real 2 piece rotor to me: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...09607ecs01akt/

in comparison, the stoptechs are cheap to those.

I'd love to have those ECS two-piece rotors but they don't sell the same configuration in the rears.

I can't stand mis-matched sets.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

Just so you know there is a coding change for the cars with 330mm rear when you move to 345mm caliper.

DSC_CODIERDATEN_ALLGEMEIN 3000 > C_Variante_Bremssattel_hinten_e = P2.44 (02)

If moving up to 370/345 from 340/330, I'd recommend the following as well, as it seems to modify pedal pressure:
DSC_CODIERDATEN_ALLGEMEIN 3000 > C_Cp_Hinterachse = 1690 (06)
DSC_CODIERDATEN_ALLGEMEIN 3000 > C_Cp_Vorderachse = 3270 (0C)

These are applied when you VO code 2NH or HO code SPBR.

We investigated this in another thread. It's best to HO code SPBR if your vehicle didn't come with 2NH from the factory.

Thanks for your response. I recall there being a previous discussion. But I thought that the additional coding turned out to be inconsequential/unnecessary if the car came from the factory with F340/R330. The factory build code for this brake configuration on my 2015 335ix is P337A.

About five years ago a BMW tech upgraded me to F340/R345 (and a few years later to F370/R345). At the time he said that the P337A F340/R330 configuration came with the same coding on the car (which I assume is the 2NH that you mentioned) from the factory as the Blue M Sport Brake factory option S2NHA F370/R345. So he said no coding change was needed.

I’m having some unrelated coding done next week. I’ll ask them to check and print my current brake coding which should be factory for F340/R330 build code P337A.

Attached is the coding instruction page from the M Performance Brake Kit instructions which just says to “encode with the Software Service Station (SSS) via the Retrofit/Sport Brake path”. If you could post the page details from that, I’d appreciate it. I’ll post whatever we pull from my car. Thanks.