[Robin_NL]

Well, SPORTAUTO tested the 335i vs the S4 and the 335i won(44 vs 41 points)

EDIT: The shorter braking distance(100kmh-0 35.5m warm vs 37.5m for the S4(>2 yards difference!) and the higher cornering (1.25G (!!!!)in the Sachscurve at Hockenheim) let the 335i gain points vs the S4. And win....(Any bend was done with 1.0 -1.05G at least for the BMW)

The 335i was equipped with the 19"401 style wheels and staggered setup with and Bridgestone Potenzas S001 RFT(225F and 255R) and not the 225 square 18"setup in the Motortrend video.

Another example why one should opt for the staggered 19"setup and(for instance) Potenzas. I have them and they're definitely worth it when you want a sportier ride vs the 18"wheel setup. Which I already stated weeks ago, but some 'engineers' thought they knew it so well LOL. Numbers don't lie.

Another thing. The S4 was faster on Hockenheim Kurz by .7 seconds. Also almost 30HP more and 170kgs more. So also kudos to Audi and their active diff: A bigger heavier car being faster than the lighter car. It is possible in 2012. Think about it when deciding between a 328 and 335.


Cheers
Robin

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by Yay-Z

I can't believe BMW just lost a comparison on driving feel and excitement. Yikes!!

With the exception of people on BMW Forums...most buyers will prefer a softer 3 series.

Most people buying a 3 series aren't in their 20's...want a car with some driver's feel, haul kids, go easy on gas, don't want to have their teeth knocked out every time they hit a pothole in New York or CA. They'll take a car that is more comfortable driving over an hour, than a pocket rocket that feels good for 10 minutes.

BMW MBA's will cater to the market. As they should.


Porsche makes a pretty good driver's car. Just need to bring your piggy bank. Nuff said.

[RPM90]

The overall review wasn't bad.
I've driven the S4 and it's very sweet ride.
That supercharged V6 is very powerful and responsive.

But, the starting point of the review is where it went wrong for me, in terms of properly determining performance.
The problem is quite obvious, TIRES.

The S4 is running on high performance summer tires, with 245 width all around.
The 335i in this test is running on all season tires with only 225 width all around, it's traction is clearly limited from the onset.
Having equivalent tires would have made the performance tests much closer. BMW has a staggered option with wider rear rubber, but you have to move up to the heavier 19" wheel/tire setup. To stay with the lighter 18's, you have to get an Msport with the stock staggered 18's that give a 255 wide rear tire. Handling, braking, and accel traction are directly affected by tire grip, that's obvious. Thus, it's also obvious that the 335i tested hear is equipped poorly for this test.

Accel times for the S4 at 4.4 is the fastest I've ever seen for an S4.
The 335i at 4.9 is not bad with the traction limited all seasons.
If it had the summer performance tires I can see it easily picking up a .1 or .2 on accel.

Tires are also very important in handling and especially braking performance. In this test the 335i was a whole second behind in the figure eight, better tires could easily over come that.
Braking distance was pathetic. Again, with summer tires the 335i has shown under 110ft from 60, a far cry less than the all seasons could do here.

The reviewer made some odd comments about damper control. He never said that the 335i in this test has the optional adjustable suspension.
Yet, he commented that "in the 3 series" you change damper settings with the "normal, sport, sport+" settings. That's misleading in that the only way that control adjusts the dampers is if you get the optional BMW adjustable suspension.
On the S4 he said that driver preference settings didn't adjust damper control. Well, that's not fully true either, because if you get the optional "drive select, adjustable dampers, and sport diff" package option, then you do get adjustable dampers.
In his review he didn't make that clear. In fact, he made it sound like you do get adjustable dampers in any 3 and don't get it in any S4.
Fact is, you can option adjustable dampers in either car, you just need to open up the wallet for either car.

I test drove an S4 with DSG/dual clutch auto, and right after test drove a 328i with sport AT.
To me, the 328i sport line felt more engaging, and that was a big surprise to me as I think the S4 is a great automobile.
I didn't get a chance to wring out the S4 or 328i though, as my test was more slightly aggressive daily driving.

The sport seats are very nice in the S4, but the new sport seats in the F30 are a level above the S4's. The 3's sport seats are extremely comfortable and supportive in turns.

So, that S4 also had the limited slip rear diff, which makes a big different in handling. BMW 3's don't offer that at all and that's a shame as that would have made a big difference as well.
A better test of equal equipment would be to test an S4 that doesn't have the rear LSD.

Couple AWD with a strong SC V6, summer performance tires, and it's easy to see how the S4 could outdo the 335i.
I really like the S4. I've said it before, the S4 is a clear and direct competitor to the 335i in E90 and F30 chassis.
Audi has done an incredible job on it, and it's now an "old" chassis compared to the new F30.
Next series S4 could widen the gap.

I still prefer the overall harmony of driver input to car control in the new 3 series.
Still, BMW does need to offer some added performance gear if they want to keep up with the S4, namely an LSD option.

[ric124]

Originally Posted by TheRox

With the exception of people on BMW Forums...most buyers will prefer a softer 3 series.

Most people buying a 3 series aren't in their 20's...want a car with some driver's feel, haul kids, go easy on gas, don't want to have their teeth knocked out every time they hit a pothole in New York or CA. They'll take a car that is more comfortable driving over an hour, than a pocket rocket that feels good for 10 minutes.

BMW MBA's will cater to the market. As they should.


Porsche makes a pretty good driver's car. Just need to bring your piggy bank. Nuff said.

Could be true and you said with the exception of the forum.On the forum it seems that the age range is majority 25-35. BMW prob needs to come out with another 3 series for this group or is that going to be the 4 series??? Only time will tell.

I really think tires was a big factor in this Head2Head tho. Summer vs all season

[johnofcross]

Originally Posted by ric124

So I guess the tires make a big difference when you care with his ignition review of the 335i.

Audi S4 on Head2Head by Carlos
0-60 = 4.4sec
1/4 mile = 12.9 @ 108.7
60-0 = 108ft
figure 8 = 25.6sec

BMW 335i on Ignition by Carlos
0-60 = 4.7sec
1/4 mile = 13.3 @ 103.9
60-0 = 109ft
figure 8 = 25.7sec

BMW 335i on Head2Head by Carlos
0-60 = 4.9sec
1/4 mile = 13.5 @ 103.9
60-0 = 131ft
figure 8 = 26.7sec

Yup. And the Ignition review was with the 8 speed (which I'm not sure would make the results worse or better).

[Robin_NL]

I also don't understand why Carlos says the (incar) sound of the 335i isn't involving enough. I know it's not a 1M or 'better' a e9x M3 but hey the R6 sounds very good inside and especially outside from the exhaust plopping when coasting/shifting. I know the S4 also sounds very good, but the 335i did deserve more point in this review for its engine sound imo.

[Pele96]

Originally Posted by johnofcross

Yup. And the Ignition review was with the 8 speed (which I'm not sure would make the results worse or better).

I thought this was the same guy who tested the 8sp 335i before.

[rideontwo]

Didn't see that one coming. Pretty bad numbers on the braking, something I have always been proud of with BMW. The lateral G numbers were pretty surprising as well, considering both have the same tires. But I suppose the S4 has wider tires, 245 compared to the 225 on the 335i. Not surprised about the steering feel either.

Ultimately I guess you really have to drive both to decipher which one is best for you.

[Casey 5]

Have you all ssen the latest Youtube Motor Trend match up of the 2013 F30 335i against the 2012 S4.

The 2013 S4 has some nice interior updates--so the 2013 S4 would have even a wider victory over the F30 335i.

The S4 flogged the 335i in ever metric 0-60 (4.4 vs 4.9), breaking, and skid pad.

On the back hill drive the S4 with its sport diff made for a more "fun and engaging ride".

My question is this--what is happening at BMW.

They have six full year--at least 3 of which this latest S4 should have been in their cross hairs and what is the result?

The S4 takes it to school in every driver metric?

Even the Audi wins on "steering feel" the hallmark of the 3 series.

In short, not good in any regard.

[bimmerjph]

I don't know what is happening to BMW, but they had better realize soon that they will be like lexus. In the forever doomed boring category.

[svache]

Originally Posted by Casey 5

the 2013 F30 335i against the 2012 S4.

I'm sure it was a 2012 F30, not 2013

[MassBimmer]

Originally Posted by svache

I'm sure it was a 2012 F30, not 2013

Why does that make a difference? They're the same car

[svache]

The 335i might be the one who falls a bit short in this comparison, but to me it doesn't really matter. Personally I don't like the front of the Audi, never did like it ever since the 2005 versions. Same goes the interior, it's not for me.

Sure, Audi might be a bit faster in the comparison, a bit better.. but really, it's not only the drive, the eye wants something too and, honestly, my eyes like BMW a lot better. The only real thing that bothers me about the Bimmer is the braking.. I am not surprised it is bad compared to the Audi, the braking really lacks and far too often I feel like I should have been able to brake much faster/harder.

In the end, it's good BMW gets some real competition and, really, competition from either Audi or MB can only be good for future releases. It gets scary when the competition is coming from certain Korean or Japanese car makes

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

335i or 328i...
sport line or lux or modern line.. it's not drastically different.
it's not like you are getting completely different cars.

Compared to the Sport line, the Lux or Modern is only approximatively 90% of it.
you are just missing the dynamic electronic adjustments of Sport+.

and that's all, otherwise, no matter what lines you are getting, it is the SAME car...
i dont know why you guys make such a big differentiation... the trims are the main visual difference, but those dont do squat for the performance of the car.

I totally agree with everything you say here , except for one point: the Lux and Modern do get Sport+ if they order something sports related (I have it too on my Lux)

edit: my bad, I just realized you said 'electronic adjustments', that's true lol, we don't get that.

[FlyingDutchman1]

I wonder if the result would be different (or closer) if they compared an S4 with the dual clutch transmission to a more well equipped 335i with the 8-speed sport automatic, 19" mixed summer tires, M adaptive suspension and the variable sport steering.

This same host gushed over a 335i so equipped just a few short months ago in another Motortrend Ignition video review. That 335i also posted better results in their performance testing across the board.

In short, from experience, there is a fairly large difference between a 335i with these options and one without. Without the ability to test drive a 335i with these options I might have purchased the S4 too instead of ordering the BMW.

-FD

[RASHID007]

To be honest I hear a lot of complaints about how the F30 is the softer 3 series as if it's a bad thing. I'm sure I'm not the only one that prefers the F30 over all previous 3 series. I've tried twice in the last 10 years to buy a 3 series and both times couldn't get myself to do it even though I've always been a huge BMW fan. Why? Because E90 and earlier was too small and cramped and lacking any hint of luxury. The interior was embarrassing. The trade off of performance vs luxury/interior/tech/space was poorly done. This F30 is the first BMW 3 series worth owning if you want a luxury car. Before now a 3 series buyer was buying a wannabe sports car stripped of luxury interior and acceptable space front and back top to bottom.

If you want a sports car get a sports car. If you want the perfect mix of luxury and performance then get an F30. The S4 is great no doubt about that. But if you love and want a BMW the F30 is the first 3 series with buying if you want a LUXURY car too.

The F30 is a nicer, more luxurious, more technology packed and more fuel efficient E39 M5. That's driving heaven if you ask me.

Ok now let the flaming of me begin. . Or perhaps people agreeing that the 3 series trumps all past 3 series by a wide margin and softer is not always bad (and a big pat on the back to Audi for catching up).

[rconti]

Originally Posted by Casey 5

My question is this--what is happening at BMW.

They have six full year--at least 3 of which this latest S4 should have been in their cross hairs and what is the result?

The S4 takes it to school in every driver metric?

Even the Audi wins on "steering feel" the hallmark of the 3 series.

In short, not good in any regard.

Sounds like a cool car! I don't know why this is such a big deal, unless you're a member of the Quandt family. I'd love to have a new S4.

Buy and drive what you like. If Audi leapfrogged BMW with this car, so be it. BMW didn't screw up the 3er, it's a great car. Just more motivation for BMW to be on their game with the new M3 and future 3 series models. If you like the 3er, buy that. If you like the S4, buy that.

I don't get money when BMW wins competitions, do you? My Z3M is as much fun as the day I bought it (well, more so, since now it's modified). Next time I buy a car, if BMW makes the car I want, awesome! If Audi makes a better car, awesome!. I just like cool cars.

[svache]

Originally Posted by MassBimmer

Why does that make a difference? They're the same car

I was just nitpicking lol

[onehungevo]

The s4 is all wheel drive and has more horsepower.

[Alpine F31]

Link please, I cant find it...

[txnewbie]

!

[nsquared]

Here is the link to the video.

One thing for people to keep in mind. The tested BMW is a 335i but it is on a square setup, not staggered like most RWD cars. In addition, the 335i is equipped with Run Flat all seasons compared to summer tires on the Audi S4. Thus, there is a huge difference in braking and the track. Although the Audi S4's mechanic LSD is far superior than the electronic in the 335i, its an option, it isn't standard thus the testing numbers are different.

Both are great cars but the options, facts are miss interrupted in the video. I've been in the VW/Audi family for a long time and know a lot about their cars.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by rconti

Next time I buy a car, if BMW makes the car I want, awesome! If Audi makes a better car, awesome!. I just like cool cars.

Amen. Not counting my wife's cars, I've had 2 BMW's, 2 Audi's, an MB (not a fan), and an Infiniti since college. I could go back and forth between BMW and Audi for the rest of my life and be happy. I'd get bored sticking with either one every time.