Another F30 N20 Blown Motor Thread :(

Handsomecore · 01-03-2021, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aL_bmwf30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsomecore

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Originally Posted by aL_bmwf30

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Originally Posted by Handsomecore

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex0607

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Originally Posted by Handsomecore

2013 BMW X1 with n20 engine with original timing chain and guides

Please share your driving habit and what you did every time you drove the car to get a sense of how your car can last this long without any issue with the timing chain?

This is a customers car not my car I have a f30 328i . But I been working on this car for 5 years . Only major repair we did was the turbo everything else is wear and tear items such as the valve cover gasket , oil filter housing gasket , alternator , belt and tensioner , etc . Mostly all her miles is highway hence the high miles but basically just good maintenance I change her oil every 3000 miles coded off auto stop/start . Its strange these n20 blow with under a 100k miles when they all have the same timing chain set up /parts . Her x1 went to 213,000 miles with original timing chain and guides with no problem just changing the oil at 3k and doing all highway driving and coding off auto stop/start . At 213,000 miles her timing chain had a tiny bit slack in it nothing crazy I swap the tensioner now it's super tight . Bmw redesigned the tensioner and the tensioner works off oil pressure so if your oil is dirty and sludge build up it will effect the timing System. Bmw oil change interval is way too long . I work on these all day long I haven't seen a different timing chain yet 2016 528 with the same exact chain and guides I have in my 2013

I think if the original timing chain and guides can get you to 250,000 miles that's great . Cause let's be honest most people don't even keep they car to 200k they trade it in and get a new one ,so if you gotta replace the timing chain system at 250k for preventative maintenance that's not bad at all . This is for the people that have low miles under a 100k you car can make it over 200k with the original timing chain and guides .if you take care of it

How do you check if the timing chain is tight? And how much slack is normal?

Open the oil cap and stick your finger into the valve cover and try to move the chain . It should be tight. Like I said the x1 with 212,000 miles had some slack when she reached 200k but still was running strong with original timing chain and guides so if u have under those miles it shouldn't be no slack if so I would start with the tensioner and 3000 oil changes

There is some slack in my chain but not too much, I wonder if some slack on timing chain is normal? Mine doesn't make a whine noise at all and its only 62k miles

You shouldn't be able to move the chain with your finger . It's hard to describe over text I would have to show you in person . Are you moving the chain by itself or are you moving it with the guides? You have low miles thou you'll be fine just start changing your oil every 3000 miles . Buy the gallon 5qts from Walmart $22 penz oil Euro blend , buy oem oil filter Mann and you good to go .

aL_bmwf30 · 01-03-2021, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsomecore

Quote:

Originally Posted by aL_bmwf30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsomecore

Quote:

Originally Posted by aL_bmwf30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsomecore

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex0607

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsomecore

2013 BMW X1 with n20 engine with original timing chain and guides

Please share your driving habit and what you did every time you drove the car to get a sense of how your car can last this long without any issue with the timing chain?

This is a customers car not my car I have a f30 328i . But I been working on this car for 5 years . Only major repair we did was the turbo everything else is wear and tear items such as the valve cover gasket , oil filter housing gasket , alternator , belt and tensioner , etc . Mostly all her miles is highway hence the high miles but basically just good maintenance I change her oil every 3000 miles coded off auto stop/start . Its strange these n20 blow with under a 100k miles when they all have the same timing chain set up /parts . Her x1 went to 213,000 miles with original timing chain and guides with no problem just changing the oil at 3k and doing all highway driving and coding off auto stop/start . At 213,000 miles her timing chain had a tiny bit slack in it nothing crazy I swap the tensioner now it's super tight . Bmw redesigned the tensioner and the tensioner works off oil pressure so if your oil is dirty and sludge build up it will effect the timing System. Bmw oil change interval is way too long . I work on these all day long I haven't seen a different timing chain yet 2016 528 with the same exact chain and guides I have in my 2013

I think if the original timing chain and guides can get you to 250,000 miles that's great . Cause let's be honest most people don't even keep they car to 200k they trade it in and get a new one ,so if you gotta replace the timing chain system at 250k for preventative maintenance that's not bad at all . This is for the people that have low miles under a 100k you car can make it over 200k with the original timing chain and guides .if you take care of it

How do you check if the timing chain is tight? And how much slack is normal?

Open the oil cap and stick your finger into the valve cover and try to move the chain . It should be tight. Like I said the x1 with 212,000 miles had some slack when she reached 200k but still was running strong with original timing chain and guides so if u have under those miles it shouldn't be no slack if so I would start with the tensioner and 3000 oil changes

There is some slack in my chain but not too much, I wonder if some slack on timing chain is normal? Mine doesn't make a whine noise at all and its only 62k miles

You shouldn't be able to move the chain with your finger . It's hard to describe over text I would have to show you in person . Are you moving the chain by itself or are you moving it with the guides? You have low miles thou you'll be fine just start changing your oil every 3000 miles . Buy the gallon 5qts from Walmart $22 penz oil Euro blend , buy oem oil filter Mann and you good to go .

I'm able to move the chain with my finger a little... I have been changing my oil every 4000 miles with castrol synthetic since 35k miles now I'm at 62k miles and my auto start/stop has been coded off at 35K miles...

Handsomecore · 01-03-2021, 11:01 PM

Ooo you in NY I can look at it if you want me to . But base off what you saying it sounds like you good .

sjbender · 01-04-2021, 11:09 AM

Full docket text for document 95:
NOTICE of Change of Address by GARY S. GRAIFMAN (GRAIFMAN, GARY)

Full docket text for document 96:
BRIEF in Opposition filed by BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC re [89] MOTION for Attorney Fees , Reimbursement of Expenses and Service Awards to Class Rep. (DALTON, CHRISTOPHER)

http://www.sjbender.com/96.pdf

sjbender · 01-06-2021, 12:10 PM

There are 10 more letters submitted to the court, dockets 98-107. I am not going to download every letter at this point seeing as this would cost at least $50. If there is a reference to a specific letter, I will grab those.

Full docket text for document 97:

TEXT ORDER: The Court has reviewed the objections of Ronald Seth Zarowitz [D.E. 90] and Muthuvenkatesh Hosurnarayanan [D.E. 91]. The parties are directed to submit responses, if any, to Mr. Zarowitzs and Mr. Hosurnarayanans objections by January 18, 2021.. So Ordered by Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor on 1/4/21. (tjg, )

sjbender · 01-08-2021, 07:47 AM

Full docket text for document 108:
TEXT ORDER: Order clarifying D.E. 97: Per D.E. 75, the parties may respond to any objections to the class settlement by February 1, 2021. So Ordered by Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor on 1/6/21. (tjg, )

And the letters keep rolling in...

mike_MAN · 01-11-2021, 11:52 AM

Thank you! Just sifted through docket 96. Its a tough battle for sure.
Hard to say what will result from the battle but I feel like I should oppose just to keep myself in the settlement should they issue a recall or extend the warranty. I don't think there's an option to accept the 1-year extension from 7 to 8?
Options are to exclude yourself, do nothing and get excluded, or oppose.

BWbimmer · 01-11-2021, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aL_bmwf30

I'm able to move the chain with my finger a little... I have been changing my oil every 4000 miles with castrol synthetic since 35k miles now I'm at 62k miles and my auto start/stop has been coded off at 35K miles...

Camshaft sensor error is a good indication that it is 5 to 12.

amancuso · 01-15-2021, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWbimmer

Camshaft sensor error is a good indication that it is 5 to 12.

What is 5 to 12?

frazervalley · 01-15-2021, 08:03 PM

I am not certain what the writer meant in this particular example, but 5 to 12 is often used as a reference to impending doom. The doomsday clock, meaning that at 12 something very bad is going to happen. This reference is often used to indicate how close we are to a nuclear Armageddon based on what is happening in world events.
In this case it could refer to the risk of failure to this engine.

Slick_FThirty · 01-15-2021, 08:31 PM

Camshaft error could indicate that the chain has jumped some sprockets and is therefore not timed correctly. It can indicate that damage is imminent or could also indicate that damage has occurred.

BWbimmer · 01-16-2021, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso

What is 5 to 12?

It's a German thing meaning There is no more time to waste

The chain has to be replaced and with is the tentioner and the guides.

aL_bmwf30 · 01-16-2021, 03:23 PM

Anyone that has slack on their timing chain or hears the whine or loud timing chain, please go to www.nhtsa.gov and file a complaint.. timing chains failing at 50k to 80K miles is unacceptable especially from a pricey brand like bmw. There needs to be a recall.

Volkom · 01-18-2021, 09:41 PM

I opted out of the class action suit last week- I will sue them on my own because I did the full diagnosis and engine replacement myself.
I took lots of photos and documented plenty. My engine blew in the summer, 2 days after 8 years since the in-service date, at 73k miles. I would have NO compensation through this lawsuit even even had I gone to the dealer, unless I waited until two weeks from NOW due to the 1 year 'sub 100k clause'. Sorry but I can't not have a car for 6 months due to legal matters, this result is complete and utter trash.

I opted out because I believe that a multi-year lawsuit that reached settlement would not be amended even if many people write opposition letters. I'd rather not remove my legal rights to sue for this as a private party than HOPE that the judge changes things because I believe she probably won't.

Had i paid for this out of pocket at BMW (i.e. they did the repairs) I would likely stay in the class action and write an opposition letter depending on the coverage (or lack of).

I hope that when I sue them on my own I'll be able to reference much of the literature already used in these proceedings to further my argument.
I also hope that maybe BMW cuts their losses and just pays up.

I just want reimbursement for the engine I bought, the fluids (of which the total cost is pretty substantial), and components related to the replacement. I'd like labor too, but I think the parts costs would be fair.

I mean, front diff fluid was like 30 bucks, coolant was another 50 or so, oil another 30 with filter, 10 bucks for grease and related consumables, 50 bucks for one-time-use bolts that need to be replaced during replacement, another 10 for the RTV silicone related to removing the water cowl/wipers. 100 for fuel injector crush washers and teflon seals, 50 for plugs.
Engine cost me like 4500 bucks (made sure it was a new production timing chain after the revisions).
If I asked for labor I'd probably charge for 16 hours or whatever the book says to charge, but it took me FAR longer than that, and costs associated with extra equipment I needed to buy like a hoist.

The total costs are VERY substantial, but I think I will make more headway suing them on my own, at the mercy of a judge, rather than arguing with some dipshit at BMW NA over my repairs being DIY therefore they aren't covered, and my right to sue has been removed due to the class action.

Regardless, my cost estimate is still below what an indie would charge for the same engine I installed and install fees.

Also screw BMW for removing our favorite repair instruction site in the middle of this fiasco.

chrisca70 · 01-21-2021, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkom

....Also screw BMW for removing our favorite repair instruction site in the middle of this fiasco.

Good decision, I would have done the same. Off-topic but which site do you refer to?

Slick_FThirty · 01-21-2021, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisca70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkom

....Also screw BMW for removing our favorite repair instruction site in the middle of this fiasco.

Good decision, I would have done the same. Off-topic but which site do you refer to?

newtis.info

sjbender · 01-30-2021, 12:52 PM

Full docket text for document 142:
DECLARATION of Christopher J. Dalton Regarding Mailing of CAFA Notice re [75] Order on Motion for Settlement by BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC. (DALTON, CHRISTOPHER)

http://www.sjbender.com/142.pdf

sjbender · 01-30-2021, 12:57 PM

Full docket text for document 145:
TEXT ORDER: Plaintiffs shall submit a response, if any, to Defendants 1/23/21 letter [D.E. 128] by 2/5/21. So Ordered by Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor on 1/29/21. (tjg, )

Full docket text for document 128:
Letter from Christopher Dalton re [113] Reply Brief to Opposition to Motion,,. (DALTON, CHRISTOPHER)

http://www.sjbender.com/128.pdf

Volkom · 02-01-2021, 02:47 AM

Thanks for the continued updates- it's very much appreciated.
Do you know if a letter asking to be excluded from the class action would show up on these dockets?
I would assume no, since it goes to the claims admin and not the court, but I'd appreciate some clarification.

Anders3 · 02-01-2021, 04:22 PM

This morning I took my 2015 (build date 7/14) 328xi to the dealer and they are going warranty the entire timing chain and oil chain module. I have 69,8XX miles so I've been hand wringing about what to do with the extended warranty and 100% class action coverage about to end. I watched numerous TC videos and wasn't sure if I had the chain whine or not but I thought it would be worth risking the $180 diagnostic fee to try to get it warrantied. In the end they said it needed to be replaced and covered under the extended warranty. If you are under 7 years/70k miles it might be worth rolling the dice with the diagnostic fee at the dealership to get it checked out and hopefully warrantied.

eddymerckx3 · 02-01-2021, 05:10 PM

...could you please share a recording of your TC whine? I realize there are many others posted, but thot it would be helpful to keep loading on this thread. Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders3

This morning I took my 2015 (build date 7/14) 328xi to the dealer and they are going warranty the entire timing chain and oil chain module. I have 69,8XX miles so I've been hand wringing about what to do with the extended warranty and 100% class action coverage about to end. I watched numerous TC videos and wasn't sure if I had the chain whine or not but I thought it would be worth risking the $180 diagnostic fee to try to get it warrantied. In the end they said it needed to be replaced and covered under the extended warranty. If you are under 7 years/70k miles it might be worth rolling the dice with the diagnostic fee at the dealership to get it checked out and hopefully warrantied.

sjbender · 02-02-2021, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkom

Thanks for the continued updates- it's very much appreciated.
Do you know if a letter asking to be excluded from the class action would show up on these dockets?
I would assume no, since it goes to the claims admin and not the court, but I'd appreciate some clarification.

I have seen a few in the list that are specifically that. I do not download them all since it cost between $1-$5 per letter.

01-03-2021, 11:01 PM	#949
Handsomecore Private 26 Rep 61 Posts Drives: 2007 328i sedan Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Bronx ny iTrader: (0)	Ooo you in NY I can look at it if you want me to . But base off what you saying it sounds like you good .
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01-04-2021, 11:09 AM	#950
sjbender Private First Class 141 Rep 145 Posts Drives: '01 E46, '13 F10 (TC failed) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Delaware iTrader: (0)	Full docket text for document 95: NOTICE of Change of Address by GARY S. GRAIFMAN (GRAIFMAN, GARY) Full docket text for document 96: BRIEF in Opposition filed by BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC re [89] MOTION for Attorney Fees , Reimbursement of Expenses and Service Awards to Class Rep. (DALTON, CHRISTOPHER) http://www.sjbender.com/96.pdf Last edited by sjbender; 01-04-2021 at 11:12 AM.. Reason: added url
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01-06-2021, 12:10 PM	#951
sjbender Private First Class 141 Rep 145 Posts Drives: '01 E46, '13 F10 (TC failed) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Delaware iTrader: (0)	There are 10 more letters submitted to the court, dockets 98-107. I am not going to download every letter at this point seeing as this would cost at least $50. If there is a reference to a specific letter, I will grab those. Full docket text for document 97: TEXT ORDER: The Court has reviewed the objections of Ronald Seth Zarowitz [D.E. 90] and Muthuvenkatesh Hosurnarayanan [D.E. 91]. The parties are directed to submit responses, if any, to Mr. Zarowitzs and Mr. Hosurnarayanans objections by January 18, 2021.. So Ordered by Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor on 1/4/21. (tjg, )
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01-08-2021, 07:47 AM	#952
sjbender Private First Class 141 Rep 145 Posts Drives: '01 E46, '13 F10 (TC failed) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Delaware iTrader: (0)	Full docket text for document 108: TEXT ORDER: Order clarifying D.E. 97: Per D.E. 75, the parties may respond to any objections to the class settlement by February 1, 2021. So Ordered by Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor on 1/6/21. (tjg, ) And the letters keep rolling in... Attached Images
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01-11-2021, 11:52 AM	#953
mike_MAN Private 21 Rep 89 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW X3 Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Thank you! Just sifted through docket 96. Its a tough battle for sure. Hard to say what will result from the battle but I feel like I should oppose just to keep myself in the settlement should they issue a recall or extend the warranty. I don't think there's an option to accept the 1-year extension from 7 to 8? Options are to exclude yourself, do nothing and get excluded, or oppose.
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01-15-2021, 08:03 PM	#956
frazervalley Second Lieutenant 125 Rep 217 Posts Drives: 2015 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: British Columbia iTrader: (0)	I am not certain what the writer meant in this particular example, but 5 to 12 is often used as a reference to impending doom. The doomsday clock, meaning that at 12 something very bad is going to happen. This reference is often used to indicate how close we are to a nuclear Armageddon based on what is happening in world events. In this case it could refer to the risk of failure to this engine. Last edited by frazervalley; 01-15-2021 at 10:54 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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01-15-2021, 08:31 PM	#957
Slick_FThirty First Lieutenant 125 Rep 326 Posts Drives: 13' BMW 328i Xdrive Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Camshaft error could indicate that the chain has jumped some sprockets and is therefore not timed correctly. It can indicate that damage is imminent or could also indicate that damage has occurred. __________________ If you can imagine it, you can achieve it. If you can dream it, you can become it.
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01-16-2021, 03:23 PM	#959
aL_bmwf30 Private First Class 21 Rep 103 Posts Drives: 2013 Bmw 328i Xdrive Luxury Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Staten Island iTrader: (0)	Anyone that has slack on their timing chain or hears the whine or loud timing chain, please go to www.nhtsa.gov and file a complaint.. timing chains failing at 50k to 80K miles is unacceptable especially from a pricey brand like bmw. There needs to be a recall.
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01-18-2021, 09:41 PM	#960
Volkom Private 19 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW X3 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	I opted out of the class action suit last week- I will sue them on my own because I did the full diagnosis and engine replacement myself. I took lots of photos and documented plenty. My engine blew in the summer, 2 days after 8 years since the in-service date, at 73k miles. I would have NO compensation through this lawsuit even even had I gone to the dealer, unless I waited until two weeks from NOW due to the 1 year 'sub 100k clause'. Sorry but I can't not have a car for 6 months due to legal matters, this result is complete and utter trash. I opted out because I believe that a multi-year lawsuit that reached settlement would not be amended even if many people write opposition letters. I'd rather not remove my legal rights to sue for this as a private party than HOPE that the judge changes things because I believe she probably won't. Had i paid for this out of pocket at BMW (i.e. they did the repairs) I would likely stay in the class action and write an opposition letter depending on the coverage (or lack of). I hope that when I sue them on my own I'll be able to reference much of the literature already used in these proceedings to further my argument. I also hope that maybe BMW cuts their losses and just pays up. I just want reimbursement for the engine I bought, the fluids (of which the total cost is pretty substantial), and components related to the replacement. I'd like labor too, but I think the parts costs would be fair. I mean, front diff fluid was like 30 bucks, coolant was another 50 or so, oil another 30 with filter, 10 bucks for grease and related consumables, 50 bucks for one-time-use bolts that need to be replaced during replacement, another 10 for the RTV silicone related to removing the water cowl/wipers. 100 for fuel injector crush washers and teflon seals, 50 for plugs. Engine cost me like 4500 bucks (made sure it was a new production timing chain after the revisions). If I asked for labor I'd probably charge for 16 hours or whatever the book says to charge, but it took me FAR longer than that, and costs associated with extra equipment I needed to buy like a hoist. The total costs are VERY substantial, but I think I will make more headway suing them on my own, at the mercy of a judge, rather than arguing with some dipshit at BMW NA over my repairs being DIY therefore they aren't covered, and my right to sue has been removed due to the class action. Regardless, my cost estimate is still below what an indie would charge for the same engine I installed and install fees. Also screw BMW for removing our favorite repair instruction site in the middle of this fiasco. Last edited by Volkom; 01-19-2021 at 12:20 AM..
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01-30-2021, 12:52 PM	#963
sjbender Private First Class 141 Rep 145 Posts Drives: '01 E46, '13 F10 (TC failed) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Delaware iTrader: (0)	Full docket text for document 142: DECLARATION of Christopher J. Dalton Regarding Mailing of CAFA Notice re [75] Order on Motion for Settlement by BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC. (DALTON, CHRISTOPHER) http://www.sjbender.com/142.pdf Attached Images
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01-30-2021, 12:57 PM	#964
sjbender Private First Class 141 Rep 145 Posts Drives: '01 E46, '13 F10 (TC failed) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Delaware iTrader: (0)	Full docket text for document 145: TEXT ORDER: Plaintiffs shall submit a response, if any, to Defendants 1/23/21 letter [D.E. 128] by 2/5/21. So Ordered by Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor on 1/29/21. (tjg, ) Full docket text for document 128: Letter from Christopher Dalton re [113] Reply Brief to Opposition to Motion,,. (DALTON, CHRISTOPHER) http://www.sjbender.com/128.pdf
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02-01-2021, 02:47 AM	#965
Volkom Private 19 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW X3 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the continued updates- it's very much appreciated. Do you know if a letter asking to be excluded from the class action would show up on these dockets? I would assume no, since it goes to the claims admin and not the court, but I'd appreciate some clarification.
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02-01-2021, 04:22 PM	#966
Anders3 Registered 2 Rep 4 Posts Drives: F30 328xi Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Denver iTrader: (0)	This morning I took my 2015 (build date 7/14) 328xi to the dealer and they are going warranty the entire timing chain and oil chain module. I have 69,8XX miles so I've been hand wringing about what to do with the extended warranty and 100% class action coverage about to end. I watched numerous TC videos and wasn't sure if I had the chain whine or not but I thought it would be worth risking the $180 diagnostic fee to try to get it warrantied. In the end they said it needed to be replaced and covered under the extended warranty. If you are under 7 years/70k miles it might be worth rolling the dice with the diagnostic fee at the dealership to get it checked out and hopefully warrantied.
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