[jamiem1987]

I did post on your thread that i thought this would happen again as a software reset almost always never fixes things... the first time it happened I would have got rid and rejected. Gutted for you.

I lose confidence in things that suffer stupid error messages as you described.

I have a few friends with Land rovers and everytime I get in one I want one, then i hear their horror stories and go off the idea and rinse and repeat. Even so i’m sure one day i’ll go there and probably regret it! Damn cars!

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by jamiem1987

I did post on your thread that i thought this would happen again as a software reset almost always never fixes things... the first time it happened I would have got rid and rejected. Gutted for you.

I lose confidence in things that suffer stupid error messages as you described.

I have a few friends with Land rovers and everytime I get in one I want one, then i hear their horror stories and go off the idea and rinse and repeat. Even so i’m sure one day i’ll go there and probably regret it! Damn cars!

Not sure you're allowed to reject until they've tried to fix it and rejection only applies if the same fault keeps happening and the dealer can't repair. I may be wrong, never rejected one, just my understanding.

[Wills2]

I would reject it if you can, they are unreliable cars that appear to be difficult to fix which in this day and age is unacceptable at this price point.

If the issues had caused 2-3 days without the car then that wouldn't be an issue but 4-5 weeks to fix things? And how many more times is it going to happen is a question you have to ask.

I don't think over 400,000 miles across 18 years and 12 BMWs the total number of days for warranty work I've had done would total more than a week or two.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Not sure you're allowed to reject until they've tried to fix it and rejection only applies if the same fault keeps happening and the dealer can't repair. I may be wrong, never rejected one, just my understanding.

The law on rejection is relatively simple

Within the first 30 days : A fault presents which was not present at time of purchase. You can reject, you do NOT have to give an opportunity to repair, you are entitled to a full refund

Day 31 to 6 months : You MUST give the selling garage ONE opportunity to rectify the fault. If the fault comes back, you can reject. The garage may make a 'reasonable deduction' from the refund for the amount of use you have had of the car. (Note that exactly what constitutes 'reasonable' has not yet been tested in the courts)

After 6 months : The onus is on the consumer to prove that the fault existed at the time of purchase. The car can still be rejected, but it starts to get very much into the 'needs to be a repeating fault that can't be fixed, in spite of multiple attempts' to get there.

[DB118D]

Originally Posted by Rukka

I know none us us have Cristal balls

Just me that noticed your phone auto-correcting crystal to Cristal

Party at Rukka's

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by robbiep

The law on rejection is relatively simple

Within the first 30 days : A fault presents which was not present at time of purchase. You can reject, you do have to give an opportunity to repair, you are entitled to a full refund

Day 31 to 6 months : You MUST give the selling garage ONE opportunity to rectify the fault. If the fault comes back, you can reject. The garage may make a 'reasonable deduction' from the refund for the amount of use you have had of the car. (Note that exactly what constitutes 'reasonable' has not yet been tested in the courts)

After 6 months : The onus is on the consumer to prove that the fault existed at the time of purchase. The car can still be rejected, but it starts to get very much into the 'needs to be a repeating fault that can't be fixed, in spite of multiple attempts' to get there.

Seems reasonable. I'm guessing the "do" should be a "don't" in your first statement.

[MashinBenzin]

Thanks for all the comments guys, kind of what I was hoping for - plenty of reasoned opinion.

Time without the car - I should say that at the moment it's a total of two weeks, with a rough estimate of one to two further weeks awaiting parts. Plus a few extra days over new year where I couldn't take the loaner back. That's my 4-5 weeks.

One thing I have picked up in the replies - having to allow the supplying dealer to fix. It's currently in a different dealer. The supplying dealer did the software update to cure the engine management light, and ran diagnostics. The 'forward alert' and aeb malfunctions had occurred a couple of days previously but had already been supposedly cleared by a camera software update by LR Assist attending the engine management light fault. Messy story I know!

Hmmm. Reject is the clear consensus. I'd then buy another and possibly we would be without a second car whilst it was built (probably take a while). And, of course, what if this sensor does actually fix the problem.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Seems reasonable. I'm guessing the "do" should be a "don't" in your first statement.

Yes, will edit and fix ! Thanks for the spot

[Lynxi2k]

On the topic of JLR reliability, and may go someway to influencing your decision..,

I had a meeting a while back with a metal finishing company who work with JLR. They were discussing coating a part with anti corrosive "stuff" and they had specified to only coat after joined, leaving unprotected metal joining unprotected metal. Obviously this was the cheaper option, and when challenged on the longevity of this option they replied "it only has to last 3 years".

Probably not the party line and suspect the relationship between the 2 individuals involved led to such a glib response. However the part was involved in the suspension assembly...

It's not hard to see with that attitude why they suffer so badly!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Hmmm. Reject is the clear consensus. I'd then buy another and possibly we would be without a second car whilst it was built (probably take a while). And, of course, what if this sensor does actually fix the problem.

You can't help some folks.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Rukka

Steps in as plenty of experience rejecting cars.......

I completely understand where people are coming from with the 'it's a fixable niggle' approach and the compensation angle for lack of use/inconvenience etc but is suppose the question you have to ask yourself is how you feel about how reliable it's going to be down the line?

I know none us us have Cristal balls and any car can develop an electrical fault given the complexities of the control systems. In your shoes, I would have been more comfortable if it had developed a fault, had it fixed and didn't re-occur.

Alarm bells would be ringing loudly with me with repeat faults and dealer visits in such a short time.

In your instance, it has had a fault, the dealer has attempted repair and it has failed again. You have every right to reject it should you wish.

Contrary to popular belief, the rejection process is simple. It's a consumer right so it's not really about the dealer or finance company 'playing ball'. They have no choice!

If you decide to go down that route I have a template letter which has served me well which I can share with you.

Rukka

Thanks Rukka, I will probably drop you a PM for that template letter.

I'm completely with you on the confidence based on the type of problem. Several software updates and now a mysterious sensor is a lot more worrying than a single component being identified as fried or broken. I'm going to call up to speak to the tech directly as we had a good discussion on the problem last week, whereas via the service desk yesterday it was all pleasantries with no understanding of the actual issue.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

This, you're such a good guy Rich. Personally I'd love it to get sorted asap and be the car you want it to be....but I fear this may drag on and on. We all know there is some love needed in the JLR ownership but ..... did anything remotely like this spring up in your last 100,000 miles of BMW ownership, perhaps, perhaps not.

Not for us to say keep it or reject it but 100% now is the time to decide and start the process if you wish to reject.

Good luck and best wishes!

Thanks for the very kind words Chris

Yes, I love the car and wish it could be what it should be! As most probably recall, I went in eyes open and perfectly prepared for a few issues to arise and to ensure that it was always under warranty. It's the type of issue and the fact that my usage has changed since ordering that makes the long term more worrying. At five years old and 30k vs five years and perhaps 120k are two different stories.

Yeah, the beemers were rock solid. One LED tail unit in the first few months on the E90, followed by timing chain at 95k, identified and replaced under extended warranty. The 440i was faultless bar Bluetooth music issues which I never asked them to sort.

Going to give myself until Monday to decide, talk to the wife etc (she loves the car and driving it, much more than the X5 that's the likely other brand alternative). Ordering another LR feels almost as risky as waiting to see if the fault recurs on this one.
Going to research X5 45e deals as B58+upfront savings+reduced running costs has some appeal...

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by jamiem1987

I did post on your thread that i thought this would happen again as a software reset almost always never fixes things... the first time it happened I would have got rid and rejected. Gutted for you.

I lose confidence in things that suffer stupid error messages as you described.

I have a few friends with Land rovers and everytime I get in one I want one, then i hear their horror stories and go off the idea and rinse and repeat. Even so i’m sure one day i’ll go there and probably regret it! Damn cars!

Cheers Jamie they are buggers, design a brilliant product and then fail in QA/execution.

Thanks Lynxi2k for the insight into the ethos too!

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by mcoops

Honestly, do you have any idea how frustrating it is to see you dealing with this in your usual measured, phlegmatic manner? We want drama! Can you at least promise that when you finally lose your shit, you'll be near a computer

^This. Then I might have just enough time to get away from the windows before the blast wave hits the left coast.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by agentorange

^This. Then I might have just enough time to get away from the windows before the blast wave hits the left coast.

Close one today guys. The loan car, in between lurching and vibrating along in its overblown 2.0 way, threw a 'blind spot monitoring not available, proceed with caution' message and lit up both BLS lights for the last couple of miles home.

[robbiep]

One plus side to all this :

I'd seen a really nice looking 2 year old Jaguar XE, and was possibly, maybe-ish considering it as a possibility when the F31 goes.

But now I'll definitely be sticking with BMW ...

Thanks !

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by robbiep

One plus side to all this :

I'd seen a really nice looking 2 year old Jaguar XE, and was possibly, maybe-ish considering it as a possibility when the F31 goes.

But now I'll definitely be sticking with BMW ...

Thanks !

You're welcome

Something in some of your posts just occasionally tells me that you might not be ideally suited to JLR ownership

[mcoops]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Close one today guys. The loan car, in between lurching and vibrating along in its overblown 2.0 way, threw a 'blind spot monitoring not available, proceed with caution' message and lit up both BLS lights for the last couple of miles home.

I predict you'll replace the D5 with an X5, and some sort of malfunctioning JLR product will then ding it in a low speed encounter.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by mcoops

I predict you'll replace the D5 with an X5, and some sort of malfunctioning JLR product will then ding it in a low speed encounter.

Have you read about the PHEV X5s spontaneously combusting? I wouldn't be garaging mine if I bought one, not with my luck! It would park on the woodland side of the drive, except in long hot summers.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by mcoops

Honestly, do you have any idea how frustrating it is to see you dealing with this in your usual measured, phlegmatic manner? We want drama! Can you at least promise that when you finally lose your shit, you'll be near a computer

Keep smiling Rich. There's only one right answer and path, the one you want.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Keep smiling Rich. There's only one right answer and path, there one you want to pick.

Cheers Chris, genuine lol moment, glad I wasn't drinking! Saved for posterity!

[GBR1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Thanks for the very kind words Chris

Going to research X5 45e deals as B58+upfront savings+reduced running costs has some appeal...

I can save you some effort. £1000 deposit and £830 per month for.


X5 45e M Sport std interior/exterior colour.

Tech pack ("Complimentary" this quarter)
Vis pack
Tech pack
Driver assistance pack

That was the first offer I got, so haven't worked to hard on it yet..

GBR1