[StealYourFace]

First off, I have to say all the bitching and moaning about this car is completely undeserved - other than the size (it did indeed feel a good bit larger than an e90) there is no question I was driving a bmw, not a camry like some of the rags have inferred.

I currently drive a 2014 Jetta base/automatic (lot demo - I am a sales mgr at a car store). Talk about a laggy unresponsive drivetrain, though not as bad in sport.

I must also mention I drove perhaps the lesser in terms of sporty late model 3ER - a 328xi automatic. Takeaways:

* I am a 'save the manuals guy' and would not buy an auto for myself but god damn that 8 speed is brilliant. Sporty, engaging, instant, smooth. Just awesome

* The n20 (n26?) is an amazing motor. Other than the clickity clack idle, it sounded smooth and sporty. Anyone that drives this car and bitches about turbo lag needs to get their head examined. It just does not exist. And the power in the higher revs felt very similar in character to my n52 330i. Instant response, power everywhere. Just an awesome engine. The straight 6 muzak coming out of the active sound was overkill, esp in sport, but I know that can be coded down, which I would want. Like 50% would be just fine. Very impressed. Don't forget this was a heavy car - like I said it was an automatic xi.

* Steering/maneuverability - Again, anyone that compares the steering of this car to a camry is a drama queen. It felt tactile, deliberate and precise. No, not exactly like hydraulic, but different doesn't mean worse. Plus I like the reduced noise - the per steering pump in my e90 has always sounded like a cat in heat esp after autocross or track time. And given the increased size of the car, and the soft non sport dampers, the car felt nimble and athletic.

Very solid, very bmw driving car all around. I have driven everything from e28s, e34, e36 and of course my e90. Its quite obvious the f30 has dan from all those.

I would really like to drive a sport 328i with a stick and analogue dampers - or better yet a 228i. I have a feeling that with similar mods as my car (m3 front control arms, lsd with a shorter gear set - or do the 328i stick cars already come with like 3.91s and the n55 has 3.15s .. I can't remember) that I would have a very engaging fun ride. With 170,000 miles on my 330i I know I will be buying a car within the next couple years. It's nice these cars are an option.

[JamRWS6]

I have to agree with you. From the F30 to the F10 the newer cars aren't getting a fair shake. They are thoroughly impressive. I feel like other cars are finally getting better so there isn't the huge superiority gap there used to be.

I drove a 6spd manual for ten years before my current 8AT and honestly would never go back. These transmissions and driveline are fantastic.

[paul e]

These folks who compare F3x to Accords and Camrys (???) need to be ignored.

[cozmo2312]

It's no longer a straight 6... The 328 is a 4 banger

[jgoens]

Totally agree with you, especially on the steering. I've been saying it since I got my f30--I think the steering is equal--the e90(which I had) was nice and tight and did give more connection of the wheels, but the f30 feels more responsive and nimble..so they are different, but I would not say one is worse. Take the connection of the e90 and the responsive, preciseness of the f30 and steering perfection would be achieved.

[jhuber]

I traded in a Camry for my 335i... there is no comparison at all. Well except the 4 wheels and 4 doors thing, that is rather similar but beyond that

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by cozmo2312

It's no longer a straight 6... The 328 is a 4 banger

Yes I know that - I was referring to the fake 6cyl sound pumped in via active sound.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by cozmo2312

It's no longer a straight 6... The 328 is a 4 banger

Not familiar with Muzak, huh? Don't worry. Only us old folks are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzak_(brand)

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

First off, I have to say all the bitching and moaning about this car is completely undeserved - other than the size (it did indeed feel a good bit larger than an e90) there is no question I was driving a bmw, not a camry like some of the rags have inferred.

I currently drive a 2014 Jetta base/automatic (lot demo - I am a sales mgr at a car store). Talk about a laggy unresponsive drivetrain, though not as bad in sport.

I must also mention I drove perhaps the lesser in terms of sporty late model 3ER - a 328xi automatic. Takeaways:

* I am a 'save the manuals guy' and would not buy an auto for myself but god damn that 8 speed is brilliant. Sporty, engaging, instant, smooth. Just awesome

* The n20 (n26?) is an amazing motor. Other than the clickity clack idle, it sounded smooth and sporty. Anyone that drives this car and bitches about turbo lag needs to get their head examined. It just does not exist. And the power in the higher revs felt very similar in character to my n52 330i. Instant response, power everywhere. Just an awesome engine. The straight 6 muzak coming out of the active sound was overkill, esp in sport, but I know that can be coded down, which I would want. Like 50% would be just fine. Very impressed. Don't forget this was a heavy car - like I said it was an automatic xi.

* Steering/maneuverability - Again, anyone that compares the steering of this car to a camry is a drama queen. It felt tactile, deliberate and precise. No, not exactly like hydraulic, but different doesn't mean worse. Plus I like the reduced noise - the per steering pump in my e90 has always sounded like a cat in heat esp after autocross or track time. And given the increased size of the car, and the soft non sport dampers, the car felt nimble and athletic.

Very solid, very bmw driving car all around. I have driven everything from e28s, e34, e36 and of course my e90. Its quite obvious the f30 has dan from all those.

I would really like to drive a sport 328i with a stick and analogue dampers - or better yet a 228i. I have a feeling that with similar mods as my car (m3 front control arms, lsd with a shorter gear set - or do the 328i stick cars already come with like 3.91s and the n55 has 3.15s .. I can't remember) that I would have a very engaging fun ride. With 170,000 miles on my 330i I know I will be buying a car within the next couple years. It's nice these cars are an option.

My new best friend. And an E90 330i owner, too!

A dealership sales manager on Shakedown Street. hmmm.

[lens]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

Yes I know that - I was referring to the fake 6cyl sound pumped in via active sound.

There is no i6 sound being pumped in via active sound on the 28i.

Drive a 35i and there's a huge difference between engine sound.

[Labeef]

Originally Posted by paul e

These folks who compare F3x to Accords and Camrys (???) need to be ignored.

Amen.

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by chaungo

There is no i6 sound being pumped in via active sound on the 28i.

Drive a 35i and there's a huge difference between engine sound.

ok... well whatever that active sound is trying to emulate, it certainly is not a 4 cyl, and to my ears it is trying to sound like a 6 of some sort, if not an 335i.

This thread wasn't intended to bash the sound of the engine, or the active sound, which didn't sound too related, but didn't sound awful. Just simply observing what I heard.....

[BM57]

It's nice to hear that you had a positive experience with your first F30 test drive and thanks for sharing your detailed impression.

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

...With 170,000 miles on my 330i I know I will be buying a car within the next couple years. It's nice these cars are an option.

Have you had your E90 since new? That's a lot of mileage (to me). Has it been good to you?

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

ok... well whatever that active sound is trying to emulate, it certainly is not a 4 cyl, and to my ears it is trying to sound like a 6 of some sort, if not an 335i.

This thread wasn't intended to bash the sound of the engine, or the active sound, which didn't sound too related, but didn't sound awful. Just simply observing what I heard.....

Don't sweat these guys being critical of Active Sound.

Truth is, it's a new reality that we all must evolve to along with everything having a turbo.

In less than. 15 years most cars will have no sound at all unless you pay the high tax to drive a petrol engine and fuel is around $8 per gal like in Europe.

These days are quickly coming to the US.

[Michael Schott]

Thanks for your thoughts although I cannot agree on the steering. Yes the Camry comparisons are a huge exaggeration, but it lacks feel, feedback and linearity in the twisties. It's the main reason I will probably move away from a 3 series after my lease ends. The rest of the car is great.

I have no problems with the active sound. It's a nice sound. Those who think it's designed to sound like an I6 are hearing something different than me. The N52 sounded like the world's best sewing machine, perfect balance and smoothness. The active sound with the N20 growls and is deeper.

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by BM57

It's nice to hear that you had a positive experience with your first F30 test drive and thanks for sharing your detailed impression.



Have you had your E90 since new? That's a lot of mileage (to me). Has it been good to you?

No worries!

As far as the e90 goes, I actually bought the car in 2009 with around 50,000 miles on it. I knew I would have the car for a long time, so I wanted as few options as possible. I bought it from a dealer in Texas off lease, because I couldn't find a non I drive/stick/sport close to home. Thanks to a shitty economy, I was able to buy that car super cheap (like $18k).

I'll give you a cliff notes history of my car - its been great and really sold me on BMW.

I have had next to no issues with the car, outside of wear items most of they money I have spent on it has been voluntary. Around 60k miles it needed a starter - that pissed me off. I did the water pump around 150k miles because it was starting to make me nervous.

I have the front M3 control arms - the lowers are on their 3rd set, and the front sway bar links only last about 20k miles before the ball joints wear out and make noise - but I get Maylees from FCP Euro for free- lifetime replacement. Only $50/pair to begin with. Back in the day I also got a deal on the OEM Performance Suspension - all four dampers/mounts/bushings for only $133. Much tighter than (worn) oem sport shocks and still holding up. I read someplace that they were bilstein sports painted black but I don't know for sure.

I have also done all four wheel bearings - the rears were noisy around 120k.
I have done almost every arm/bushing and link in the rear. Aftermarket toe links made a DRAMATIC difference in rear stability, and have eliminated the need for me to do M3 rear subframe bushings. because of how much they tightened up the rear. Really I can't stress how much they helped. Also did the rear camber ball joints as they were getting sloppy/noisy.

The big money I spent was on a LSD, with 3.38 gears which really woke the car up. The ratio is 7% shorter which was enough to help with torque multiplication but not so much to kill the gas mileage. An AA tune and BMW PE also helped to give the perception of a little extra kick.

Finally, I never had a problem with the brakes on this car - the 330i came with big 13" front and 13.2" rear brakes (rears the same size as 335i) but I got a deal on a set of 335is front brakes - a massive 13.7" front with 2 piece rotors. With a set of EBC Yellows all the way around, I have never run out of brakes on the track.

So at the end of the day I have been lucky with the car, but I take above average care of it. Most wear items are reasonable. It's a fun DD, and a great track rat - fast enough to be fun but it won't bite your head off lol. I recently got my dad into HPDE, and we both run my car since he is in Novice and I am not. After two days of two driver HPDE, the car doesn't break a sweat.

Hopefully If I get an F30 for my better half it will treat us just as well. I really would like to find a steal deal on a 320is with a stick but those are really tough to find.

Tim

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

No worries!

As far as the e90 goes, I actually bought the car in 2009 with around 50,000 miles on it. I knew I would have the car for a long time, so I wanted as few options as possible. I bought it from a dealer in Texas off lease, because I couldn't find a non I drive/stick/sport close to home. Thanks to a shitty economy, I was able to buy that car super cheap (like $18k).

I'll give you a cliff notes history of my car - its been great and really sold me on BMW.

I have had next to no issues with the car, outside of wear items most of they money I have spent on it has been voluntary. Around 60k miles it needed a starter - that pissed me off. I did the water pump around 150k miles because it was starting to make me nervous.

I have the front M3 control arms - the lowers are on their 3rd set, and the front sway bar links only last about 20k miles before the ball joints wear out and make noise - but I get Maylees from FCP Euro for free- lifetime replacement. Only $50/pair to begin with. Back in the day I also got a deal on the OEM Performance Suspension - all four dampers/mounts/bushings for only $133. Much tighter than (worn) oem sport shocks and still holding up. I read someplace that they were bilstein sports painted black but I don't know for sure.

I have also done all four wheel bearings - the rears were noisy around 120k.
I have done almost every arm/bushing and link in the rear. Aftermarket toe links made a DRAMATIC difference in rear stability, and have eliminated the need for me to do M3 rear subframe bushings. because of how much they tightened up the rear. Really I can't stress how much they helped. Also did the rear camber ball joints as they were getting sloppy/noisy.

The big money I spent was on a LSD, with 3.38 gears which really woke the car up. The ratio is 7% shorter which was enough to help with torque multiplication but not so much to kill the gas mileage. An AA tune and BMW PE also helped to give the perception of a little extra kick.

Finally, I never had a problem with the brakes on this car - the 330i came with big 13" front and 13.2" rear brakes (rears the same size as 335i) but I got a deal on a set of 335is front brakes - a massive 13.7" front with 2 piece rotors. With a set of EBC Yellows all the way around, I have never run out of brakes on the track.

So at the end of the day I have been lucky with the car, but I take above average care of it. Most wear items are reasonable. It's a fun DD, and a great track rat - fast enough to be fun but it won't bite your head off lol. I recently got my dad into HPDE, and we both run my car since he is in Novice and I am not. After two days of two driver HPDE, the car doesn't break a sweat.

Hopefully If I get an F30 for my better half it will treat us just as well. I really would like to find a steal deal on a 320is with a stick but those are really tough to find.

Tim

See my signature. I also own a 2006 330i Sport/6MT with 170,000 miles, but I bought mine new (mine's also been very reliable). I also own a 2014 335i MSport 6MT.

I'm surprised you're as easy on the F3x given your experience with the E90 330i. They both have their merits, but as a driver's car, there's really no comparison. If I'm making a run through the twisties, I'll take the E90. Every. Single. Time.

[note: I'm not saying the F30 is a terrible car...I like many aspects of it, and it may be the best "overall" package in the market for a four-door sports sedan today...but it's not the dynamic canyon carver of yore]

[MarineOh3]

I agree with everything you say. I am a long time e30 owner and have driven everything in between. My 328i sport line is a blast to drive. Frankly, anyone who compares the f30 to an accord has either never driven an accord, or never driven an f30.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Thanks for your thoughts although I cannot agree on the steering. Yes the Camry comparisons are a huge exaggeration, but it lacks feel, feedback and linearity in the twisties. It's the main reason I will probably move away from a 3 series after my lease ends. The rest of the car is great.

Michael, what are you going to get to replace the 3er? "Linearity"? I'm not sure what that means. I can say despite all the car rags bitching and moaning about the steering I haven't read a single review that didn't say it is precise and takes the car exactly where you point it.

Originally Posted by AudiA4

See my signature. I also own a 2006 330i Sport/6MT with 170,000 miles, but I bought mine new (mine's also been very reliable). I also own a 2014 335i MSport 6MT.

I'm surprised you're as easy on the F3x given your experience with the E90 330i. They both have their merits, but as a driver's car, there's really no comparison. If I'm making a run through the twisties, I'll take the E90. Every. Single. Time.

[note: I'm not saying the F30 is a terrible car...I like many aspects of it, and it may be the best "overall" package in the market for a four-door sports sedan today...but it's not the dynamic canyon carver of yore]

As you know, I also own a 2006 E90 330i sport package and I don't agree that "there's really no comparison" with an equivalently equipped F30, specifically with sport suspension, staggered set-up, performance, summer tires.

That set-up obviously isn't a priority for many "enthusiasts" right here on these "enthusiast" forums, because a staggering number of them choose xDrive with all season tires and are satisfied to buy a car off the lot that doesn't even mitigate their choice by having the adaptive suspension.

[lens]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

See my signature. I also own a 2006 330i Sport/6MT with 170,000 miles, but I bought mine new (mine's also been very reliable). I also own a 2014 335i MSport 6MT.

I'm surprised you're as easy on the F3x given your experience with the E90 330i. They both have their merits, but as a driver's car, there's really no comparison. If I'm making a run through the twisties, I'll take the E90. Every. Single. Time.

[note: I'm not saying the F30 is a terrible car...I like many aspects of it, and it may be the best "overall" package in the market for a four-door sports sedan today...but it's not the dynamic canyon carver of yore]

Obviously you're driving the wrong F3x

Some spring changes and m adaptive and it changes the car completely, I've taken my car and my buddy's e90 335i through some nice twisties around here and there was no comparison, the F3x was a blast to drive vs the e90, the e92 m3 however was a different story as that V8 engine and exhaust was ridiculous (supersprint)

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

See my signature. I also own a 2006 330i Sport/6MT with 170,000 miles, but I bought mine new (mine's also been very reliable). I also own a 2014 335i MSport 6MT.

I'm surprised you're as easy on the F3x given your experience with the E90 330i. They both have their merits, but as a driver's car, there's really no comparison. If I'm making a run through the twisties, I'll take the E90. Every. Single. Time.

[note: I'm not saying the F30 is a terrible car...I like many aspects of it, and it may be the best "overall" package in the market for a four-door sports sedan today...but it's not the dynamic canyon carver of yore]

In that frame of reference, I might agree. I drove what's really the least sporty F30 - 328xi, non sport, auto, which certainly went into my assessment. If I drove a 328i sport, with a stick I would've held it to a higher standard so who knows.

[strumbringer]

I think the LCI 340i (xDrive even) with THP is plenty fun in the twisties, FWIW. Corners nearly flat, sticks like glue.