[BAKKI]

About to cop a tune for the F32 – either BM3 or MHD. I already have a CTS catted DP ready to go.

Now my question is if there's any drawbacks to going directly to stage 2 if:
- I only get 91 gas (CA)
- Car is a MT
- First time modding anything

I want to just go stage 2 if possible, but I'm wondering if I should start slow w/ stage 1, see how I like it, get used to shifting gears with the new power before moving up (worried about hitting the clutch limit). I'm also wondering if there are any technical drawbacks to running stage 2 on 91 gas, besides lower power which I'm fine with.

Help a noob out

[G.Newt]

BM3 has ACN (Arizona, California, Nevada, and other low grade fuel) maps. So there is a Stage 2 91 ACN. You should have access to ethanol around you though. The ethanol maps are great, also, you can add a gallon or two to clean up timing and be able to run the regular maps (will need to log to verify).

And on regular Stage 2 91, my clutch started to slip. Replaced with 335is/550i clutch and moved to the Stage 2 E30 map. No slipping.

[BAKKI]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

BM3 has ACN (Arizona, California, Nevada, and other low grade fuel) maps. So there is a Stage 2 91 ACN. You should have access to ethanol around you though. The ethanol maps are great, also, you can add a gallon or two to clean up timing and be able to run the regular maps (will need to log to verify).

And on regular Stage 2 91, my clutch started to slip. Replaced with 335is/550i clutch and moved to the Stage 2 E30 map. No slipping.

@G.Newt thanks that's good to know. Were you experiencing slippage frequently or only when you were really slamming through the gears? I'm hoping to avoid replacing the clutch if I can help it. If it's the former then maybe I should play it safe and stick to Stage 1

I've also heard some people having luck with just a CDV delete on the stock f30 clutch https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1628178&page=3

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by BAKKI

@G.Newt thanks that's good to know. Were you experiencing slippage frequently or only when you were really slamming through the gears? I'm hoping to avoid replacing the clutch if I can help it. If it's the former then maybe I should play it safe and stick to Stage 1

I've also heard some people having luck with just a CDV delete on the stock f30 clutch https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1628178&page=3

On the FB group, all of us B58 6MT owners have had to upgrade the clutch. It's a necessity at this point.

[chrisp3]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

On the FB group, all of us B58 6MT owners have had to upgrade the clutch. It's a necessity at this point.

+1. Thank you for your service

Had to replace mine as soon as stage 2+ was loaded up

[mike@x-ph.com]

Expected gains with each stage (bootmod3)

Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 20% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 25% HP / 30% TQ

Stage 2 91 octane: up to 24% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 26% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ
Stage 2 Racegas: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ

Stage 2+ 91 octane: up to 37% HP / 62% TQ
Stage 2+ 93 octane: up to 43%HP / 68% TQ
Stage 2+ E30 octane: up to 47%HP / 73% TQ

[BAKKI]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Expected gains with each stage (bootmod3)

Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 20% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 25% HP / 30% TQ

Stage 2 91 octane: up to 24% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 26% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ
Stage 2 Racegas: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ

Stage 2+ 91 octane: up to 37% HP / 62% TQ
Stage 2+ 93 octane: up to 43%HP / 68% TQ
Stage 2+ E30 octane: up to 47%HP / 73% TQ

Have you ever seen anyone go Stage 1 + DP? What kind of power could I expect with that setup?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by BAKKI

Have you ever seen anyone go Stage 1 + DP? What kind of power could I expect with that setup?

Never tried it, i would assume ~ 10whp more than stage 1

[Ifellapart]

Originally Posted by BAKKI

Have you ever seen anyone go Stage 1 + DP? What kind of power could I expect with that setup?

Thic whips on youtube actually has an intresting video ont his for his supra.

he dynod the car in stage 1 and 2 with the same mods (dp, intake) and got the exact same number in both stages.

In other threads i've seen, it seems the difference between the two stages is more about timing. In stage 2 you actually will run lower boost but wider timing to allow more air to go in. If this is true i guess stage 2 is technically "safer" as it's not pushing your turbo too hard.

[BAKKI]

Originally Posted by Ifellapart

Thic whips on youtube actually has an intresting video ont his for his supra.

he dynod the car in stage 1 and 2 with the same mods (dp, intake) and got the exact same number in both stages.

In other threads i've seen, it seems the difference between the two stages is more about timing. In stage 2 you actually will run lower boost but wider timing to allow more air to go in. If this is true i guess stage 2 is technically "safer" as it's not pushing your turbo too hard.

Ifellapart That's really interesting. I assumed stage 1+DP would still be more conservative than stage 2+DP. Could you link me to the timing discussion?

I'm curious if there are differences in AFR as well -- maybe one of the maps runs richer? (Though the video shows pretty much identical between 1 and 2)

[TheFanatic]

Originally Posted by Ifellapart

Thic whips on youtube actually has an intresting video ont his for his supra.

he dynod the car in stage 1 and 2 with the same mods (dp, intake) and got the exact same number in both stages.

In other threads i've seen, it seems the difference between the two stages is more about timing. In stage 2 you actually will run lower boost but wider timing to allow more air to go in. If this is true i guess stage 2 is technically "safer" as it's not pushing your turbo too hard.

when I switched from a 91 tune to a 93 tune (stage 2) I gained 32hp and 31tq.

Granted fueling is important but we are all under the impression that stage 2 makes more power because it has to have less back pressure from a catless or high flow DP. I would be curious to see other peoples results.

[eluded]

91cali fuel is really bad and this engine loves timing.