[Jeff_D]

Hello,
My 2016 340iX manual trans (build 12/2015) in the USA went from running happily to all-in-one-day not being able to start, and showing multiple odd symptoms without throwing (expected) BMW warnings in the iDrive display.

Forgive me if I'm a bit wordy, I'm going to try to step through the scenario as it happened since I may have screwed up a second thing something while trying to fix/diagnose the first problem. Hopefully even mere-readers will learn to avoid the stupid mistake I made in tech meets tech in charging (the wrong way).

Background situation: new Interstate battery installed ~1/2022 when the OEM unit was showing low voltage by manual testing, and maybe a few times it was a bit slow to start (my memory is faint, suddenly, sigh. Might have just done it mostly preventatively as the car was relatively new to me then (now has 105k mi, 10k in my hands))

Car sits often 3-10 days between drives, and once in a while would show on the iDrive a warning about "battery draining while off" but always started. No other iDrive messages about ABS, collision sys, IBS, or Starter, or etc.

Car was started and driven in 2 stops for ~1.5 hrs last Wed, the day bad-things started: At a stop on the way home, car suddenly did a starter-solenoid click-click-click & no start after being off about 10min. I bump started it with the clutch since I was parked facing downhill, but immediately the iDrive and dash were throwing warnings about ABS, collision avoidance, and all sorts of stuff not liking that. Drove 10min to home. Stopped car, turned OFF, then re-tried Start: car still dead, but now no solenoid clicks, just accessory power only.

Opened up the trunk, went right to the battery and test voltage: measured about 12V.

BIG mistake I made: I attached a CTEK "smart" battery charger to the still connected to car battery terminals and I think it ran in re-conditioning mode before running through it's full 7 levels of battery maintenance. WHAT a dumb thing to do to computer circuits. This means I might have added to my problems.

Next day: car batt now reads only about 12.4V and still won't start. After trying to start the car, failing, and pressing Start/Stop to Stop, & exiting the car, I notice that there is a strange rapid (~90hz? 120hz?) clicking noise coming from under the hood, near the driver's front suspension tower, but below/under the hardware/wiring that (I think) leads to the spark plug coils which all sit under a flat-topped cover behind the coolant reservoirs. I took a brief video of this noise, and if possible/appropriate will upload it.

Having been surprised the CTEK didn't get the battery above 12.4 but had hit 'float'/finished, I DISCONNECTED the car wires and then connected a 3A Schumacher kinda-smart charger to the battery only for a night. In the past this unit will push other batteries I've owned to a solid 13.3-13.7v. It does have one "smart-ish" feature: it will report the battery's % of completion/level of charge.

After overnight the battery was still only about 12.7v but the charger had gone to idle. Disconnect charger, re-connect car wires, etc.

I tried to start the car: no start, no solenoid clicks, nothing but accessory/iDrive/dash power. I then tried to jump start the car using the under-hood terminals and while I got a starter engagement the engine probably didn't even turn 1/4 of a revolution before the starter just went quiet. Repeat ~2-3 times.

No clicking noises from under the hood while Stop/off before I then move on. I think.

Disconnect car wires, re-connect Schumacher @ 3A, and leave charging another ~15 hrs.

Disconnect charger, measure batt alone @ 13.7v (& 100% full), re-connect car wires, try Start: no clicks, no start. ABS and other failing system messages like last time. Stop/off the car.
Check batt V with wires still attached and mild-accessory drain: 13.4V.

Re-try start: now I get an iDrive message that "Engine cannot be started" "Starter system fault" on the iDrive screen. Try 2-3 cycles of Start/Stop, same message, along with ABS, etc warnings.

So I "Stop" the car, and my mystery clicking under the hood is back (while car is ~OFF). Dis-conn battery wires, etc. Quit for the day. My car is equipped with Comfort Access, and as such I know it's never OFF when wired normally, but this wasn't a key fob proximity related noise, to my understanding.

Observations/Notes:
1) I have not yet been able to connect up a laptop/device and use ISTA/anything to read/diagnose error codes and messages. I'm working on it, but don't have the download finished and what I previously had had software issues.

2) I found it odd how long it took to get to 13v and still suspect the battery as iffy, even though it's within it's first 2 years and is a known good brand with a full replacement for 3yrs. The local distributor that can use his more powerful (software) battery tester re-opens tomorrow, and I'm expecting to take it there to be sure. I'm leaving the battery w/o any charger tonight to see if it drops from 13.4 at all while disconnected.

3) I haven't re-tried to jump start the car, but my expectation is that I'm less likely to have damaged the starter's electrical components then the IBS or Rear or Front electronic modules.

4) I haven't checked yet for my screwup having blown any fuses.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for me to help me dig out of the mess I'm in?

I'm expecting verify the battery as good @ Interstate, then hope to have ISTA+ ready for tomorrow, attach my enet-to-OBD cable, and look for clues and or run the Evaluate SOC (state of charge) routine in ISTA. If appropriate, I have an OBD to BT sender, but haven't yet bought any coding/diag apps.

My initial plan of attack for Thursday was to suspect that my alternator's voltage regulator was bad and that I was not getting a high enough output due to it that meant my batt was 12v on Wednesday instead of 13V+. My plan was to do the normal non-BMW multi-meter tests for voltage at idle and also ~2500 rpm to see if the VR needed to be replaced. I've read that in some pre-B58 models this was a more common failure than other charging hardware issues.

Thanks to anyone that can help, for whichever part that they know about. I'm guessing I've got a combination of things to learn and sort.

PS - I've posted the same thing to another BMW site, and if I shouldn't have, I apologize. I'm not used to asking for tech help and didn't know where I'd find folks that could understand me and be of help.

[BashShah]

when you first changed the Battery in Jan 2022.
1) Did you register the Battery via Programming?
2) when you Jump start or as you stated charge the battery, are you connecting cables at the battery or under the Hood?
3) can you post the video of the noise.

Have you googled how to jump start your car before doing it?
you should not be reading codes until battery is checked, cause all the codes will not be present or incorrectly displayed.

[DieselDudeinX5]

Any updates on this issue? Curious to see what you have discovered

[Jeff_D]

Thanks for asking DieselDude.

I've been swamped trying to start figuring it out. Like anything technical, having a good foundation is important (I'm saying this for posterity/future readers).

I've had 4x I've tried to run ISTA and learn from the car what the issues are. I definitely have been having "good foundation" issues.

ISTA try session 1: at car connect/diag time, ISTA complains about unknown Terminal voltage, and I (blindly) soldier on. I'm using ISTA+ Standalone v4.32.1x that supposedly can run on the laptop w/o license issues, etc. This is a sub-topic to come back later. I'm connected via ENET to OBDII cable.

Result: 80 codes found. 68 at present mileage. Some are Terminal 15 and Terminal 30 issues, others are B+ related. Have a list, not pasting it here (yet?).

Modules issues:
RED modules: DME, LMV(VTG)

Gold/Yellow? modules: 16 modules: FEM, ZGM(central GW, within FEM), TRSVC (cameras), FZD(roof function center), REM, ASD(active sound design), IHKA(hvac sys), HU-H(headunit high), KOMBI(instrument cluster), KAFAS(control unit for camera-based driver aids), ACSM(crash safety), EDC(electronic damper control, DSC(dynamic stability control), SWW(lane change warning sys), EPS(electrical steering gear), ICM(integrated chassis management)

KEY SIDE-ISSUE: my car is running something while I'm running ISTA and the battery is draining faster than it should. I might not have remembered to run a 15A charger to the under-hood post during this session. This matters a lot, I'm to figure out later.


Session 1 result: I've got more to do than I've got time/battery.




ISTA session 2: Connect up a 15A charger to under-hood posts, run ISTA, Delete fault memory. Re-do vehicle test.

Gold modules: 19: FEM, ZGM(central GW, within FEM), TRSVC (cameras), FZD(roof function center), REM, ASD(active sound design), IHKA(hvac sys), HU-H(headunit high), KOMBI(instrument cluster), KAFAS(control unit for camera-based driver aids), ACSM(crash safety), EDC(electronic damper control, DSC(dynamic stability control), SWW(lane change warning sys), EPS(electrical steering gear), ICM(integrated chassis management)
Now Also gold: CON(controller: iDrive selector), DME, VTG, (last 2 NOT red)

delete all codes:


Gold modules: 5: FEM, DME, VTG, DSC, KAFAS,

delete all codes:

Gold modules: 6: FEM, DME, VTG, DSC, KAFAS, add: ICM





I'm not being short here, even though this is a condensed version of my notes, but I'm baffled to get varying problems without making changes/running repairs, etc. How important this is dawns on me slower than it will for you dear readers.



This repeats another 2 sessions of ISTA running, with prep between of disconnecting the battery cables entirely, charging the batt, re-connect cables. In the ISTA session I maybe try to run a procedure. Among them was registering the battery (supposedly succeeded, but ??)


**Which I had not done back 1.5 yrs ago**, a BAD mistake. But not fatal, since I changed AGM to AGM and only went up about 2Amp-hours in capacity. It matters, but not to the level of hurt I'm now at.


What else did I learn about my earlier mistake of putting a CTEK on the battery&car leads? If it ran in Recond mode, it would have delivered about 15.8V, which technically the AGM might not care about, but I doubt the modules liked.



I'm still getting differing results of which modules are Red, and Gold. I'm definitely getting hate in ISTA about voltages.



Oh yeah, the battery is really NOT bad (tested by the Interstate dealer before ISTA session 1 to be above rating of 900 CCA at 974CCA and 13.6V).


I even did some simple diagnostics along the way:

I pulled every blade-fuse in all 3 locations (trunk floor, under hood, above battery) to visually inspect them all (and No, I've not _yet_ continuity tested all bajillion of them, but the though has crossed my mind).
I also tied together the Positive and Negative leads to the car for a while. Another mistake in how: I didn't use a Resistor between them, I just shorted them. I've _since_ learned that it's much safer to use an R in the short, but not even a pro mechanic I talked to that week mentioned using a resistor to avoid a spike when you short the leads. I found this suggestion on youtube.


Even after that, I still have varying modules upset, and voltage warnings in ISTA, so it's time to re-group.



In the meantime, what seemed a sub-ordinate issue that's now got my attention is that whenever the battery is hooked up, things are running that shouldn't be. At first is was (what I now strongly suspect) a relay in the PDM. By the point I stopped on-car testing (for now) I found that the intercooler water pump was running 100% of the time (remember: a car that hasn't been even thinking of starting for a week).


So, I'm now updating my software tools, trying to find/pick an in-stock ICOM/ICOM-alternative, and using untold hours sorting through all the wiring diagrams and info to make a sane strategy of how to sort all this crud out.


My plan is:

1) I want to do some simple testing of continuity with a multi-meter of all the non-replaceable fuses.

2) Next re-connect the battery. If the pump is still running, then dis-connect the power from it (safely, via connector, probably at the PDM),
3) Next: while adding stable power at the under-hood terminal. With a (still being formulated) logic-tree of what Terminal powers what, and are any of the most often Red modules actually NOT getting 12v at their "power feed" wire. If so, do I have a possibility of bad non-replaceable relay(s).
4) Once I have a clue of should the key problem modules have a chance to run logically, then I'll turn to ISTA, etc.

What I fear: I've electrically upset module(s) enough that if I'm lucky I need to re-flash them should diagnosis indicate they won't repair with ISTA. Also in the mix are blown non-replaceable relays/fuses. Worst is would I have to try to repair or replace modules, and if so, making sure I do it in the order of logic that X powers Y buy only if Z is OK that is part of how I'm starting to understand the various Terminal 15's and 30's.


Oh, and I'm going to check on the chance of a bad ground cable under the hood. Sooner rather than later.


Suggestions and thoughts welcome.



My plan is to break down some of what I'm learning and post some it in more digestible individual posts if they stand alone as a topic/issue. I'm very happy to be getting some help here (and there) and want to support the DIY mentality. I'm very encouraged to have read that some folks from the E90 chassis side have been able to actually fix the messed up software on chips that really only need to be re-flashed correctly OUTSIDE of ISTA. My fear is that the tools and know how to do so for a DME, or a FEM, etc is still beyond even the most adventurous of the online community, and likely myself.


Opinion: in the long run, I'm thinking that both repair of modules and a better understanding of them is the key for both car longevity and eco sustainability. There don't seem to be a lot of online vendors here in the US to create a robust Used/repaired market for what really are just repairable circuit boards. It makes me wonder about the supply/demand function of what happens to F30's modules in a modern car dismantler.

[PradoRdz]

did you find the fault? Did it start? Im having similar issues after repairing the headgasket.

[deadbagz]

bumping for any updates, running into a similar issue receiving this message on the idrive system with "engine cannot be started starter system fault"

[Awdbrandon]

Originally Posted by deadbagz

bumping for any updates, running into a similar issue receiving this message on the idrive system with "engine cannot be started starter system fault"

Did you ever sort yours out? I have a manual 13' 335i and just encountered this same issue.