[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

Try checking the posts. He was responding to 225's comment about community leaders asking for the marches to be stopped to prevent the EDL using it as an excuse for violence. Rich brought skin colour into it, not 225 and I only gave the flip side to his comment mocking him. Thank you for trying to infer it as racist comment though.

225 referred to community leaders stopping to racism protests. Just because he didn’t say the colour of skin, it doesn’t mean it isn’t strongly inferred. After all, who’s protesting and what are they protesting about.

It I don’t know who these community leaders are. A lot of the protestors are from the suburbs and streets like mine or yours.

Do you have, or does 225, have community leaders that you ask advice from before making decisions? I doubt it.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I’m sure that employing a solicitor and challenging the chief of police is exactly what he wants in his quest for equality.

You reckon?

I’d challenge it out of principle if I felt harassed and victimised by the police. I don’t see it as the actual solution to the problem though.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

225 referred to community leaders stopping to racism protests. Just because he didn’t say the colour of skin, it doesn’t mean it isn’t strongly inferred. After all, who’s protesting and what are they protesting about.

It I don’t know who these community leaders are. A lot of the protestors are from the suburbs and streets like mine or yours.

Do you have, or does 225, have community leaders that you ask advice from before making decisions? I doubt it.

225 didn't need to state colour of skin. The people marching aren't just coloured. The people marching listening to speeches weren't just coloured people either. As such why would 225 need to state a colour of skin and why did you infer that he was talking about black community leaders giving the diversity of the marches?

The community leaders could be the same people who the crowds stopped and listened to as they gave a speech. A leader doesn't need to be official but merely someone who can influence others.

Please note the different skin tones at the Hyde Park gathering.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

225 didn't need to state colour of skin. The people marching aren't just coloured. The people marching listening to speeches weren't just coloured people either. As such why would 225 need to state a colour of skin and why did you infer that he was talking about black community leaders giving the diversity of the marches?

The community leaders could be the same people who the crowds stopped and listened to as they gave a speech. A leader doesn't need to be official but merely someone who can influence others.

Please note the different skin tones at the Hyde Park gathering.

So we’re saying that the term community leaders means sportsmen, politicians and celebrities? A new term to me, but I’ll buy it, you win.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

So we’re saying that the term community leaders means sportsmen, politicians and celebrities? A new term to me, but I’ll buy it, you win.

Not about winning but not jumping to conclusion like you had and suggesting it was a racist comment.

BTW it wasn't London community leaders that organising the march but done by social media by people influencing others to join them. Communities are no longer by geographical area but can be online too.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Agree, that is completely unacceptable and My solicitor would want an answer from the local chief of police if it was me.

I don't know the specifics of your case however, in many hugely majority white areas predominantly those with drug problems, county lines dealers from inner city areas set up shop to deal. A quick google shows a study by Cambridge uni a few years ago with 80% of county lines criminals ethnic appearance being black.
Therefore if that area is seeing or has potential for county lines problems, it would be logical to pay more attention to those most likely to be involved?
Again I cannot say whether that is the reason, perhaps there's no relation to county lines at all in your case, but it's certainly a huge problem in many rural towns.
Edit - another quick google tells me Chesterfield does suffer from county lines issues so that could be an explanation

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

I thought Rodney King was beaten and killed in Los Angeles not London. We know that America has deep routed racial tensions but vandalising memorials that remembered the sacrifices of their own relatives achieves nothing more than creating further hatred. It seems a very strange tactic pretty much the same with blocking of the M6 wouldn't get them any support either.

Yes, LA. I didn't think I needed to spell that out. Deep rooted racism exists here too.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

I don't know the specifics of your case however, in many hugely majority white areas predominantly those with drug problems, county lines dealers from inner city areas set up shop to deal. A quick google shows a study by Cambridge uni a few years ago with 80% of county lines criminals ethnic appearance being black.
Therefore if that area is seeing or has potential for county lines problems, it would be logical to pay more attention to those most likely to be involved?
Again I cannot say whether that is the reason, perhaps there's no relation to county lines at all in your case, but it's certainly a huge problem in many rural towns.
Edit - another quick google tells me Chesterfield does suffer from county lines issues so that could be an explanation

Agree.

Bournemouth just happens to be the heroin capital of England and Wales.We have no black gangs per se however the drug supply is controlled by Somalians. Not many who aren't involved in the scene know this.

As a result the area has what appears to be a disproportionate number of stop / search on black people, I think the latest is that you're 25 times more likely to be stopped if your black.

The majority of this will targeted and Intelligence led, some will be a hunch or due to suspicious behaviour, not many will simply be down to the colour of their skin and only that.

Its a contentious and difficult subject.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Yes, LA. I didn't think I needed to spell that out. Deep rooted racism exists here too.

I must have missed the news clips of black motorists been dragged from their car and beaten to death in the UK

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

Try checking the posts. He was responding to 225's comment about community leaders asking for the marches to be stopped to prevent the EDL using it as an excuse for violence. Rich brought skin colour into it, not 225 and I only gave the flip side to his comment mocking him. Thank you for trying to infer it as racist comment though.

I brought skin colour into a thread about racism and the upheavals brought about by a black man being killed by a white police officer? I think you will find that colour was already very much part of the discussion.

Again, we are all being distracted by the physical damage to objects, rather than talking about the actual issue that needs resolving. That's very much how anyone with an interest in white supremacy would want this to play out in a moderate audience.

Ignore the statues, that will come to an end soon enough, whatever you and I say on here. Instead, do your bit by rooting out and calling out even minor and accidental racism where you see it. Try and make society a little fairer, wherever your influence extends. Or don't, and be part of the problem.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

Not about winning but not jumping to conclusion like you had and suggesting it was a racist comment.

BTW it wasn't London community leaders that organising the march but done by social media by people influencing others to join them. Communities are no longer by geographical area but can be online too.

That would be social media influencers then, rather than community leaders. HTH.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

I must have missed the news clips of black motorists been dragged from their car and beaten to death in the UK

Nope. You must have imagined that I said anything along those lines.

I will try to help you out.

1992. A black man is dragged from his car and beaten to death by cops in LA. Large scale protests/riots follow.

2020. A black man is killed by cops in Minneapolis. Large scale protests/riots follow.

Also 2020. I post on a forum that I'm staggered that since the 1992 incident, so little has changed.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I brought skin colour into a thread about racism and the upheavals brought about by a black man being killed by a white police officer? I think you will find that colour was already very much part of the discussion.

Again, we are all being distracted by the physical damage to objects, rather than talking about the actual issue that needs resolving. That's very much how anyone with an interest in white supremacy would want this to play out in a moderate audience.

Ignore the statues, that will come to an end soon enough, whatever you and I say on here. Instead, do your bit by rooting out and calling out even minor and accidental racism where you see it. Try and make society a little fairer, wherever your influence extends. Or don't, and be part of the problem.

Are you actually saying I'm a white supremacist now because I brought up the vandalism to the Cenotaph?

As I have posted up, the march was attended by all races and skin tones so why you had to refer to white community leaders to prevent violence in response to 225 comment I have no idea.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Nope. You must have imagined that I said anything along those lines.

I will try to help you out.

1992. A black man is dragged from his car and beaten to death by cops in LA. Large scale protests/riots follow.

2020. A black man is killed by cops in Minneapolis. Large scale protests/riots follow.

Also 2020. I post on a forum that I'm staggered that since the 1992 incident, so little has changed.

Again this in the USA not the UK so why attack British police they didn't kill those people. Attacking them does the BLM movement no good.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

Are you actually saying I'm a white supremacist now because I brought up the vandalism to the Cenotaph?

As I have posted up, the march was attended by all races and skin tones so why you had to refer to white community leaders to prevent violence in response to 225 comment I have no idea.

You see, you just keep reading attacks where there are none. Of course I'm not calling you a white supremacist. I said that's how a white supremacist would wish the conversation amongst moderates to be - i.e. their interests are best served by us being distracted from the real issue.

As for the other point, done to death. If you don't see where the phrase community leader is commonly used and where it's not, that's your issue. I was drawing attention to how people use it.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

Again this in the USA not the UK so why attack British police they didn't kill those people. Attacking them does the BLM movement no good.

Distraction. We are not going to make progress on the detail.

Let's see if we can agree on two points.

I think that there is a problem with racial equality in the UK. Do you ?

I've realised that just being fair myself is not enough. I need to do more and I've promised myself that I will. How about you?

Before we go down any rabbit holes, I'm not saying we are where the US is, better or worse. Just two yes no answers will do.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

You see, you just keep reading attacks where there are none. Of course I'm not calling you a white supremacist. I said that's how a white supremacist would wish the conversation amongst moderates to be - i.e. their interests are best served by us being distracted from the real issue.

As for the other point, done to death. If you don't see where the phrase community leader is commonly used and where it's not, that's your issue. I was drawing attention to how people use it.

There I was thinking you had a weak argument so resorted to veiled calls of racism

Back to the thread topic and not about people getting murdered in America. Keep the monuments but move them to a museum where you tell the bad along with good things that person had done but also tell the full details of who kidnapped the people that were traded as slaves to go work plantations along with the nations that depended on them.
Also tell how many of the worlds great constructions that are visited by millions of visitors such as the Great Wall of China, much of Rome, the Pyramids of Egypt and others were built on the deaths of many slaves of all colours.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

Again this in the USA not the UK so why attack British police they didn't kill those people. Attacking them does the BLM movement no good.

There is absolutely no excuse for anyone attacking innocent police officers doing their job here in the UK because of something that happened thousands of miles away in another country. I would like to see everyone who attacked a police officer in those demonstrations arrested and charged.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Distraction. We are not going to make progress on the detail.

Let's see if we can agree on two points.

I think that there is a problem with racial equality in the UK. Do you ?

I've realised that just being fair myself is not enough. I need to do more and I've promised myself that I will. How about you?

Before we go down any rabbit holes, I'm not saying we are where the US is, better or worse. Just two yes no answers will do.

There is a race problem in the UK but it just isn't between whites and other colours, I have witnessed racial hate between just about any race I've encountered.

I don't have a problem with race. If I dislike you it's because you're a prick rather than the colour of the skin. On the flip side I like people regardless of their skin colour too that can be because I look up to them for their character, achievements, skill or simply because I have a lot in common with them.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

There I was thinking you had a weak argument so resorted to veiled calls of racism

Back to the thread topic and not about people getting murdered in America. Keep the monuments but move them to a museum where you tell the bad along with good things that person had done but also tell the full details of who kidnapped the people that were traded as slaves to go work plantations along with the nations that depended on them.
Also tell how many of the worlds great constructions that are visited by millions of visitors such as the Great Wall of China, much of Rome, the Pyramids of Egypt and others were built on the deaths of many slaves of all colours.

I don’t think the histories of those constructions are a secret and hidden.

I learnt about slaves building the pyramids and slaves in roman history in primary school.

And I think the statue in Bristol was a perfectly fair target. There had been plaques suggested to add some historical facts to it and it was refused point blank, presumably because the local councillors felt it would be a little distasteful.

So people did as you and others are suggesting through peaceful means, but bugger all happened. Maybe that explains some of the frustration.

I’m not suggesting that violence is ok, just that many, particularly in the US, feel they have no choice. Even Nelson Mandela, after years of peaceful and legal attempts felt he had no other direction to take. The desperation of that time showed in later life, when he had more reason than most to be vindictive and vengeful, he was the exact opposite.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

There is a race problem in the UK but it just isn't between whites and other colours, I have witnessed racial hate between just about any race I've encountered.

I don't have a problem with race. If I dislike you it's because you're a prick rather than the colour of the skin. On the flip side I like people regardless of their skin colour too that can be because I look up to them for their character, achievements, skill or simply because I have a lot in common with them.

I read that as Yes and not answered.

[Craig-SM]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I don’t think the histories of those constructions are a secret and hidden.

I learnt about slaves building the pyramids and slaves in roman history in primary school.

And I think the statue in Bristol was a perfectly fair target. There had been plaques suggested to add some historical facts to it and it was refused point blank, presumably because the local councillors felt it would be a little distasteful.

So people did as you and others are suggesting through peaceful means, but bugger all happened. Maybe that explains some of the frustration.

I’m not suggesting that violence is ok, just that many, particularly in the US, feel they have no choice. Even Nelson Mandela, after years of peaceful and legal attempts felt he had no other direction to take. The desperation of that time showed in later life, when he had more reason than most to be vindictive and vengeful, he was the exact opposite.

You may have noticed that Labour councils are now wanting to discuss if these statues should be moved. These are the same councils that in many cases have been Labour for decades such as Bristol and never moved them before when requested. Now they make out like they are wrong to be there and try to create division from the recent BLM marches. Maybe the residents of these places who felt so strongly about the statue should have voted for people who were genuinely interested in them and it could have been moved. Along with move details of how Colston made his fortune and where the money went.
Now it has been removed and will probably never appear again. The details will be lost to history and in decades to come people will wonder around the docks and halls his money built and think this is great without knowing it was from the misery of slavery.

I've mentioned this on the Netflix thread but watch Flint Town and you will realise the problems in America go way beyond racism and blaming it all on the police is just a cop out, no pun intended.