[ontheway]

Originally Posted by Drk280

A bit of info for others, fair trade said they can withdraw the money without your permission. Talked to the bank and they confirmed it, I can't stop a withdrawal because I gave them my bank details. I have to go into a branch and put a merchant stop but that can take 3 days.

The dealership is setup to steal from you

Reduce the balance on the account now. But get on the front foot with these guys and make them do some work

[Drk280]

Yea I told that to the bank, they will still pay them and I'll be on overdraft...

Merchant stop is the only way I was told over the phone.

The bank explained because I willingly gave them my bank details even though it was for a refund, they are entitled to do a withdrawal if they are in the right.

Fair trade also said 10% is quite standard when not going through a contract, I said I didn't sign anything, she said that salesmen are very pushy and deceiving and that I had to be aware to not have said I wanted the car. But I wanted the car but they upped the price... she said they are entitled to up the price since I didn't sign... like WTF.. they win regardless.

Fair trade is almost useless, they seemed to be on the dealer side, she said you have to be very careful on not saying you want a car even without signing.. ridiculous

[Aapparition90]

Ok but since you didnt sign how can they strong arm you for anything.

[Drk280]

That's the weird thing. Fair trade said a verbal agreement to buy the car is valid and me giving the deposit also is a way to say I'm buying it.
They never informed me of any of this, all just popped out of nowhere. They said I could have my deposit back from the start but they were lying.

[Sherweeeny]

dude wtf is actually going on?

you havent signed anything - you can say that deposit was placed with the dealer pending they could do it for x price and the sales guy said he would take it to his manager and would need bank details in case the offer was accepted, then you can say they didnt accept it and deducted the deposit anyway and there was no verbal agreement as they couldnt get it to the price you wanted and are now holding your deposit ransom.

id try fair trading again and se if you can get someone else with a differing view than the person you spoke to, otherwise if you know any lawyers, speak to them and get them to send the dealership a letter threatening legal action if not refunded. that would be enough i reckon.

it sounds like theyre really going hard to screw with you. not sure if theres any more to the story but just as reference i have given my CC details to a whole bunch of dealers in my time where the deal hasnt gone through and theyve always had 0 issue giving the money back.

[Aapparition90]

^ verbal agreement is just that .. verbal.No reputable dealer would take advantage of such a thing. Worst case scenario you lose the 2500 .. worst case scenario

[Sherweeeny]

Originally Posted by Aapparition90

^ verbal agreement is just that .. verbal.No reputable dealer would take advantage of such a thing. Worst case scenario you lose the 2500 .. worst case scenario

id spent double that on legal fees just to make sure the dealer doesnt get my money and then post my experience all over social media

[Drk280]

Ok.. I will explain the whole story... some people might want to know the whole chain of events...
Starts mid February.
I have been shopping around for over a month.. had not made my mind as to what car I wanted, dealer called me and asked.. I said.. 340i with specific extras.. he called back after 5pm, said he found the car etc.. wanted I think $76k I said no I won't go higher than $70k.. he said wait a sec, came back and said ok.. $70k but I want $2k deposit right now cos he's going overseas for a week, gets the money but he told me it was refundable.
I call my missus, she's not answering, call the salesman back within 5 min of hanging up and said.. no I can't go ahead I haven't checked with my wife.. he says.. too late, he has ordered the car and that I should talk my missus into it, I hang up (mind you I wanted the car at this stage).
Missus doesn't like the fact that it's like our current car and we are buying a car without seeing it, call back 9am next day and tell the owners wife what has happened and she said it's ok no problem you can have your money back, she emails it saying that yes she will refund it but maybe we should think it over the weekend. I emailed her that day saying I wanted a refund but she ignored my email request.
Weekend passes, and we decided to go ahead with the purchase, mid week bmw finance knocks me back, dealer tells me to get funds from elsewhere, no problem I did. I then contact them telling that I have the remaining $68k, the salesman said I don't think it's that price anymore, said he will call me back.
He calls back.. price is now $75.5k changeover ( I had to give them $73.5k) .. what.. I get told they where expecting money from bmw finance but because I didn't get it, they need to pump up the price, mind you they never told me the $70k was dependent on the finance.
I start to feel like I'm being penalised for their stuff up, missus not impressed, salesman ringing thru the week telling me go to convince my wife, great car etc brings price down to $73200, this is 3 weeks now of annoying calls etc.
We both go in on a Sunday to show my missus the car, he raves on and on not budging on the price, the two of us are exhausted and leave.
Get a call mid week, salesman tells me I can have it for $72k, wants a date for pickup, over and over wanted a date, I said if we go ahead it will be the 23 March also added "mind you, it's dependent on wether my wife also agrees and don't be pissed if we don't go ahead" he said no problem you talk to your wife and let me know.
I write email next day explaining that we are not going through with it.. we are sick of this drama.
He replies two days later in a rude email.
I'm off to Brisbane for a week, come back and write the email requesting a refund in 5 days. (Last weekend)
Today I get an email saying that because I did not pick up the car on the 23rd, they had recorded my conversation (without telling me they were recording it) and in that recording I have agreed to pick up the car on that date and since I didn't complete the purchase they now want 10% of the value of the car. They left out the part of the recording of me saying it didn't mean I was buying it and that it was dependent on me and my wife agreeing to it.

So that's where we are today, if they had not changed the price this thread would not have started and the 340i would be in my garage, but this feeling of being ripped off and penalised when it wasn't our fault, has caused us to stick to the first agreement price.

Also to note from the start, the salesman repeated many times, that his dealership is so prosperous that they don't need to keep people's deposits and that he can sell that car anytime to someone else.

His big mistake, I think and the reason for this drama, was ordering the car and adding it to their stock without me signing anything. He mentioned in one early call that once they request a car they can't send it back, but I told him to stop within 5 min and he said it was too late.

I will call fair trade again tomorrow as the advised I got today was shocking, they said that a verbal response of "yes I want to buy that car" is binding and the deposit is also another form of an acceptance to buy the car. All valid without a signature or a written and signed contract. It doesn't make sense, to a lot of people, that I have told this but that is what she said over the phone. She added that I needed to have been more careful in not saying any sort of verbal comments that would imply that I want to buy the car.. like wtf... I couldn't believe what I just heard.

So there you have it, in a nutshell the 4 week drama.

[ontheway]

Originally Posted by Drk280

Ok.. I will explain the whole story... some people might want to know the whole chain of events...
Starts mid February.

You need a solicitor (friend?) to help you sort out what is rubbish and what is fact as they are tying you up in more knots.

It is illegal to record phone conversations in NSW without consent. It would be handy to get this admission in writing if you don't have it.

All seems like bluff to me though.

[Aapparition90]

The car was in aus anyway , i can understand the no refund and 10 % if this was a factory order cancelled prior to delivery.

[Drk280]

This is the email, bad grammar and all I received today mentioning the recording.


"As I confirm with GM , as you can see below your email, and your ph recorded you were going to picking the 340i last Friday.
We will charged you 10% of purchase price.

Looking forward to hear from you"

His English is bad, all his emails are similar with bad grammar.

Hmm just noticed purchased price, would that be 70k or the 96k without trade in or the RRP of $110k, my bad, I read it as car value.

[bcoz]

How did you pay the deposit?
If by credit card, then contact your bank/finance co and request a chargeback (as no product has been delivered and there is no signed contract).

[Freestylerfalcon]

name and shame this dealer buddy

[Who?]

Originally Posted by Freestylerfalcon

name and shame this dealer buddy

Yeah i wanna know too

[Drk280]

Another bit of info I just found out.
Apparently you can be secretly recorded if one of the principal parties consents if it's necessary for the protection of the lawful interests of that principal party.

Wow. I'm like blown away at all the small things that dealers can do to get your money.

This is all so twisted to make the consumer fail.

[Sherweeeny]

so you have an email of them telling you you will get the deposit back? was there any written correspondence after that which can land you in hot water? I dont know how legal the recording is but even if it is, they cant cut out and edit bits so I would assume theyre pushing you to go ahead with the deal.

I would do the lawyer thing or just reply to the email stating they will refund you with a request for the refund as it hasnt hit your account as of yet. you can also let them know you wont be doing the trade and that you will pay $80k for the car itself if they really want your business. I would also contact your bank and make sure you do NOT have an overdraft option.

Id also be interested in the naming and shaming of the dealer, but considering you are on the central coast, I would assume it could only be one...

[2bad4u]

You need to look into contract law, but this could go either way IMHO.

I really have to question why you would pay a deposit without any paperwork. By you paying a deposit, that is indication enough that you wanted to proceed and be considered confirmation of you entering a contract.

HOWEVER, I think the contract was breached when they changed the price.

Good luck, but you haven't done yourself any favours.

[Who?]

did they at any point mention the price is reflective of the finance incentive on offer? at any point did you mention your purchase is conditional on gaining finance approval? (paper contracts usually indicate this). then you have nothing to worry about.

truth be told, the more i read your story, the more im thinking youve committed to purchase, paid deposit, tried to get out of it after they rejected your finance and they call you out on it.

verbal or otherwise, a contract is a contract. if youre not confident in what youve said over the phone, suck it up and pay or buy the car +2k. if youre not, line up a lawyer and take them to court.

for them to have that attitude, you mustve done something too to rile them up. theyre a business that needs to make money and retain relationships, but are also people too

[Drk280]

As a business, they should have factored a price considering any possible variables.

What the salesman should have said to me from the beginning was, for example: "the car is $75k changeover, but if you get the finance incentive it will be $70k otherwise it's $75k, would you like to proceed"

That way I would have known both prices and "sucked" up the outcome final price.

BUT they never did, he just said $70k changeover if i give him the $2k deposit, which I did.

We thought of not buying it, as I tried to cancel within 5min of giving him the money, but decided to go ahead anyway (I wanted the car the missus didn't)

I came up with my end of the deal, they asked me to get finance elsewhere, which I did.

I was ready to pay for the car and they didn't accept it.

If I didn't want the car I would have ended the whole thing at the declined finance stage.

The way I see it is that I honoured my side of the deal, they made an error in quoting and want me to pay for their mistake.

Look at Woolworths, you find they charge you more for an item than what it's listed in the aisle and you get it for free, that's taking responsibility for a business error.

Me, as a business, would have called the client and said, for example: "we are sorry but we cannot honor the initial changeover price but the best we can do is $72k, would you still like to go ahead?"

As a business, you admit you made a mistake and it's now the business that has to "suck" it up as they made an error, and let me decide without pressure which way I want to go and if not, then refund the deposit and sell the car to someone else.

Instead, they bully me over the phone and email. Using backyard dealer tactics that surprised me, and happy to share so that others can see what can happen if you don't "suck" it up to the car dealers will.

It's the way we have been spoken over the phone since they upped the price, that has us digging our heels in, if they spoke politely and didn't use time share salesman tactics on us maybe the outcome would have been different, it's been a rude push from their side.

[Who?]

Originally Posted by Drk280

As a business, they should have factored a price considering any possible variables.

What the salesman should have said to me from the beginning was, for example: "the car is $75k changeover, but if you get the finance incentive it will be $70k otherwise it's $75k, would you like to proceed"

That way I would have known both prices and "sucked" up the outcome final price.

BUT they never did, he just said $70k changeover if i give him the $2k deposit, which I did.

We thought of not buying it, as I tried to cancel within 5min of giving him the money, but decided to go ahead anyway (I wanted the car the missus didn't)

I came up with my end of the deal, they asked me to get finance elsewhere, which I did.

I was ready to pay for the car and they didn't accept it.

If I didn't want the car I would have ended the whole thing at the declined finance stage.

The way I see it is that I honoured my side of the deal, they made an error in quoting and want me to pay for their mistake.

Look at Woolworths, you find they charge you more for an item than what it's listed in the aisle and you get it for free, that's taking responsibility for a business error.

Me, as a business, would have called the client and said, for example: "we are sorry but we cannot honor the initial changeover price but the best we can do is $72k, would you still like to go ahead?"

As a business, you admit you made a mistake and it's now the business that has to "suck" it up as they made an error, and let me decide without pressure which way I want to go and if not, then refund the deposit and sell the car to someone else.

Instead, they bully me over the phone and email. Using backyard dealer tactics that surprised me, and happy to share so that others can see what can happen if you don't "suck" it up to the car dealers will.

It's the way we have been spoken over the phone since they upped the price, that has us digging our heels in, if they spoke politely and didn't use time share salesman tactics on us maybe the outcome would have been different, it's been a rude push from their side.

but if you were anything like me, you went into the dealership seeing the 5k finance offer and surely had a brief discussion about it at least? so youre saying the dealer or yourself didn't mention it at all?

when my finance got rejected, I lost my 5k offer and i thought that was fair. (I managed to get it through other means of negotiating in the end as it was in writing that i can pull out at any time if i didn't get finance approval).

the dealer came through with my purchase because in my case the purchase was conditional to finance and more importantly the 5k bonus which was in writing. its so very careless to not get conditions put in place to safeguard youself in these situations and I'm not sure if i can sympathise

I'm interested to get some snips of the rude messages the dealer has been sending, I get the impression you feel its rude as his/her English sounded short? and you replied in kind

I really don't want to be rude, or rile you up at all, but fair is fair, and negligence has its repercussions

[ontheway]

Gees... What is wrong with the finance deal that allows them to give you a 5k bonus....

[Drk280]

Yes riled up, too many things going wrong at this same moment in time in my life.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I.

Think what you like