[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JR1664

You mention 'our law enforcement agencies'. Our law enforcement agencies are so far removed from those in the US there is little comparison. If this had happened in the UK,if the UK was as inherently racist as some areas of the US then I could understand the reaction, however to me the hijacking of the message by a load of left wing nutters has totally discredited whatever they were hoping to achieve here.

By all means smash up US cities, defund police and do whatever you need to achieve your objective IN THE US but some of the actions here were totally unjustified from all sides, BML, EDL / Football lads or whatever they were and a load of bored lockdown students.

Quite a lot weren’t bored students, the people I know who went were far from that. Picking on that element to dismiss everything is pretty pathetic. They were protesting because of the experiences they’d had in their lives, and even if their own experiences were not so dramatic, they felt empathy. Which seems to be in short supply on here.

I wonder how people on here would feel if random strangers started telling them their own life experiences were wrong and not to be believed.

You can protest against racism without having personally suffered a severe physical attack by a police officer. Even if on a BMW forum racism is akin to a conspiracy theory.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JR1664

You mention 'our law enforcement agencies'. Our law enforcement agencies are so far removed from those in the US there is little comparison. If this had happened in the UK,if the UK was as inherently racist as some areas of the US then I could understand the reaction, however to me the hijacking of the message by a load of left wing nutters has totally discredited whatever they were hoping to achieve here.

By all means smash up US cities, defund police and do whatever you need to achieve your objective IN THE US but some of the actions here were totally unjustified from all sides, BML, EDL / Football lads or whatever they were and a load of bored lockdown students.

Absolutely, I meant the wider 'we' and meant to make that clear in the post. If writing about our (much better) law enforcement then I would probably just write police. Appreciate that's not an obvious subtlety and did intend to make it clear in the post.

[KRS_SN]

back after a while and this thread is like reading the comments section on dailymail with a gang of people upvoting each other based on trying to outdo each other by showing how hard done by are non bme communities despite centuries of oppressing and looting and killing bme communities. Strength in numbers means they are safe here. Nothing more to add.

[mcoops]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

back after a while and this thread is like reading the comments section on dailymail with a gang of people upvoting each other based on trying to outdo each other by showing how hard done by are non bme communities despite centuries of oppressing and looting and killing bme communities. Strength in numbers means they are safe here. Nothing more to add.

I get the sentiment, and this thread continues to depress me. Not only is there a general lack of agreement that anything is wrong, but there is an active opposing view which says minorities are overstating the problem, and/or that the white majority are suffering some sort of equivalent or worse victimisation, at least in the media.

With due respect to everyone's right to their own views, and as I've said on this thread before, I would give people the benefit of the doubt based on their actual life experience. In reality that costs me nothing, except to challenge my pre-conceptions. What I see instead is people offended at the idea that their life or majority status confers advantage on them and disadvantage on others. No small irony, given that 'easily offended' is often a favoured rebuke from those individuals.

And of course all lives matter. But if in life we perform poorly in any given area, don't we galvanise ourselves to action by giving that area focus?

I guess a car forum might not be very representative of the country at large.
But based on a debate amongst what I imagine are relatively well-heeled individuals in positions of influence, I don't see things changing anytime soon. I will probably bow out again at this point, as I don't think my views chime with most, and no-one is likely to change their minds!

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I wonder how people on here would feel if random strangers started telling them their own life experiences were wrong and not to be believed.

Yet again you completely distort a post which is pretty pathetic (You see I can be just as patronising as you). How many times have you done that on this thread and others ? For example that sentence above has absolutely no relevance to anything I or anyone else said yet you plucked something from your head to try and discredit a post.

I'm all up for reasonable debate but its a complete waste of time with you.

If you want to quote my posts by all means discuss them, just don't go all Jackanory on me. Mashin answered the post succinctly ( and yes perhaps I took his post out of context ) but didn't suddenly start putting words in my mouth.

Threads veer in all directions. I think it was clear what I was addressing by answering his post and that was that actions of a few from all sides here in the UK was totally disproportionate no matter what the message is.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Yet again you completely distort a post which is pretty pathetic (You see I can be just as patronising as you). How many times have you done that on this thread and others ? For example that sentence above has absolutely no relevance to anything I or anyone else said yet you plucked something from your head to try and discredit a post.

I'm all up for reasonable debate but its a complete waste of time with you.

You’ve hit the nail on the head.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Yet again you completely distort a post which is pretty pathetic (You see I can be just as patronising as you). How many times have you done that on this thread and others ? For example that sentence above has absolutely no relevance to anything I or anyone else said yet you plucked something from your head to try and discredit a post.

I'm all up for reasonable debate but its a complete waste of time with you.

If you want to quote my posts by all means discuss them, just don't go all Jackanory on me. Mashin answered the post succinctly ( and yes perhaps I took his post out of context ) but didn't suddenly start putting words in my mouth.

Threads veer in all directions. I think it was clear what I was addressing by answering his post and that was that actions of a few from all sides here in the UK was totally disproportionate no matter what the message is.

I’m sorry, did I misunderstand your post? I read that the left wing students has discredited the message in the U.K. Did you mean something different? I can only respond to your written words, not your hidden meaning.

And that particular sentence I posted is hugely relevant in this thread. Numerous white BMW owners saying over and over again that they don’t understand what the protests are about in the U.K. and that racism either doesn’t exist, or is just mild. Not sure myself what mild racism is and where it suddenly becomes acceptable. Earlier it was being measured in pay and job roles, if you did ok for yourself racism didn’t matter and you should keep quiet.

It’s easy to understand why they protested as far as I can see. They have experienced racism in one form or another in their own lives, or they have seen it happening to others. And even if not as severe as being suffocated by a policeman, they empathise with what happened because of their own experiences.

And using students, who have protested different causes for decades, not just now, as a reason to dismiss everything else, is pathetic.

And I agree with the poster earlier, large parts of this thread read like the posts under any Daily Mail article. I would imagine many on here read the Daily Mail and don’t see the issue. Which is the issue.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Yet again you completely distort a post which is pretty pathetic (You see I can be just as patronising as you). How many times have you done that on this thread and others ? For example that sentence above has absolutely no relevance to anything I or anyone else said yet you plucked something from your head to try and discredit a post.

I'm all up for reasonable debate but its a complete waste of time with you.

If you want to quote my posts by all means discuss them, just don't go all Jackanory on me. Mashin answered the post succinctly ( and yes perhaps I took his post out of context ) but didn't suddenly start putting words in my mouth.

Threads veer in all directions. I think it was clear what I was addressing by answering his post and that was that actions of a few from all sides here in the UK was totally disproportionate no matter what the message is.

As far as I can see reasonable debate to you and Hooded means agreeing with most of what you say and just debating a few smaller parts of it until we agree on everything.

Unfortunately I disagree with pretty much everything you say, which makes your gentle debate and a point of agreement impossible.

Still, you seem to disagree wholly with what I say, so I don’t see the problem. One rule for you and different one for me it seems.

I guess I’ll leave the thread like the others who have dared to disagree and leave it to the “we've decided for the rest of the country racism isn’t really an issue gang” to continue in a much more one sided back patting debate.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

As far as I can see reasonable debate to you and Hooded means agreeing with most of what you say and just debating a few smaller parts of it until we agree.

Au Contraire .. personally I couldn’t give a f**k if you agree with anything I say, but you clearly seem to get quite bothered about it when someone on here doesn’t agree with your points of view.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Au Contraire .. personally I couldn’t give a f**k if you agree with anything I say.

Rather a lot of your posts would suggest otherwise. Bonjour.

[Broncho]

Jeez what a thread

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Bonjour.

Au revoir!

[Broncho]

Not sure what to make of this one, the BBC have defended the use of the word with the family agreeing to it but Sideman has decided to quit over it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53708991

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Broncho

Not sure what to make of this one, the BBC have defended the use of the word with the family agreeing to it but Sideman has decided to quit over it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53708991

Not answering your question but this attack in Bristol.

Now I could be entirely wrong, however, given the odds of the attackers driving past numerous BAME people on the way to this chap, and not mowing down any of them, I'd strongly suspect the victim was targeted for another reason and the attackers also happened to be racist. Rather than the headlines and social media posts I'm seeing which state black people are being picked out and ran over in the street purely because of their skin color. That sensationalism is frankly ridiculous and fueling division. The chances are, the suspects knew the victim, the attack had nothing to do with his skin colour, however they used the opportunity to add salt to the wound by hurling racial slurs at him in the process.

Could be totally wrong and these were just two racist white supremacists who picked the guy because he was black, in which case disregard the above. Just my two cents

[Broncho]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

Not answering your question but this attack in Bristol.

Now I could be entirely wrong, however, given the odds of the attackers driving past numerous BAME people on the way to this chap, and not mowing down any of them, I'd strongly suspect the victim was targeted for another reason and the attackers also happened to be racist. Rather than the headlines and social media posts I'm seeing which state black people are being picked out and ran over in the street purely because of their skin color. That sensationalism is frankly ridiculous and fueling division. The chances are, the suspects knew the victim, the attack had nothing to do with his skin colour, however they used the opportunity to add salt to the wound by hurling racial slurs at him in the process.

Could be totally wrong and these were just two racist white supremacists who picked the guy because he was black, in which case disregard the above. Just my two cents

You make some valid and entirely plausible points but I didn't ask a question.

Just saying like.

[Broncho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.i...251.html%3famp

[Ronstein]

Racism (or for that matter any form of discrimination) is sadly part of the human character. I grew up in the 50's and 60's when B & B's regularly had signs in the windows saying 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Pets'. Racism isn't at simple as white vs black, ask any Indian from a lower caste or any Bosnian living in Serbia (or visa versa). It's far less acceptable today than it was 60 years ago, but it still exists and, in some form probably always will unless many factors including education and socio-economics are massively improved.

I'm involved with a charity for a skin condition that can make a visible difference and some of the comments these individuals get are horrendous. Is this better or worse than racism? Are we keeping score? In my view, any and all discrimination is wrong and I suspect we're all guilty of it to a greater or lesser extent at various points in our lives.

[RustyBitz]

I had my worst racist experience in 2007.

Walking home with my best mate from a night out. 6-8 group of 18-23 year olds shouted out to us, we offered some pizza being friendly drunks. We walked off friendly, next minute we was being followed.

Stones, rocks and rubbish was thrown at us "Nig**, your going to die" was shouted multiple times. I called 999 and had a bad bad feeling.

Before we knew it, the gang had caught us up and had us pinned in a corner near Warrington central train station. They kept baiting us to hit them but we wouldn't. After minutes of baiting which felt like hours police arrived.

Fast forward to the morning, my mum woke up to two police officers at her door and I wasn't home. The person who was baiting us to hit him was found to be in possession of a knife and knuckle duster.

All I can say is thank god to the police arriving in time.

The case went to crown court.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by RustyBitz

Very well said mate.

I had a very similar experience in 2007. Walking home with my best mate from a night out. 6-8 group of 18-23 year olds shouted out to use, we offered some pizza being friendly drunks. We walked off friendly, next minute we was being followed.

Stones, rocks and rubbish was thrown at us "Nig**, your going to die" was shouted multiple times. I called 999 and had a bad bad feeling.

Before we knew it, the gang had caught us up and had us pinned in a corner near Warrington central train station. They kept baiting us to hit them but we wouldn't. After minutes of baiting which felt like hours police arrived.

Fast forward to the morning, my mum woke up to two police officers at her door and I wasn't home. The person who was baiting us to hit him was found to be in possession of a knife and knuckle duster.

All I can say is thank god to the police arriving in time.

The case went to crown court.

that sounds really bad and a lucky escape.
In other news my kids are p6 and p5. They are mixed race.
apparently there is a, 'bad boy' in p5 who is white and he apparently told my kids that there is a word called n....r and that people would be killed if their skin was black and on the surface it sounds like he was narrating factual stuff to them but I am a bit queasy about them learning about these things in such a way. Especially learning a racial slur from a classmate. Anyway im not interfering yet as i wonder if its best to let things be.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by RustyBitz

I had my worst racist experience in 2007.

Walking home with my best mate from a night out. 6-8 group of 18-23 year olds shouted out to us, we offered some pizza being friendly drunks. We walked off friendly, next minute we was being followed.

Stones, rocks and rubbish was thrown at us "Nig**, your going to die" was shouted multiple times. I called 999 and had a bad bad feeling.

Before we knew it, the gang had caught us up and had us pinned in a corner near Warrington central train station. They kept baiting us to hit them but we wouldn't. After minutes of baiting which felt like hours police arrived.

Fast forward to the morning, my mum woke up to two police officers at her door and I wasn't home. The person who was baiting us to hit him was found to be in possession of a knife and knuckle duster.

All I can say is thank god to the police arriving in time.

The case went to crown court.

Glad they caught and prosecuted the bastards.

Obviously they weren’t enlightened enough to know that ALL our ancestors were once black if you go back around 80,000 years when all homo sapiens on the plant lived in Africa!