[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Yeah, cars these days have grown considerably in size but many roads (and parking spaces) have not, so a BMW 3 now feels rather large on your typical Moorland B Road (often single track)..

Even something like a Boxster would struggle to pace a hot hatch on some of the roads up here... (actually, 2004 Boxster S has less power than some of the hatches have now)...



I actually quite like the fact that they are classless, in the sense that they don't say anything about who you are etc etc.. They are not really out to make a statement... and they do all you need them to... I have blended into the crowd far more in my Golf than the BMW's...

.. and I would contend that my GTI has more poise on some of those roads than my previous 3-ers (in terms of handling etc etc)...

I am with you - I think a mk7 Golf GTi PP is probably all the car you need most of the time. I could do 130 mile each way commute in mine no trouble, economical reasonably refined cruiser.... and then blast it around country roads and have fun...

[ZedsRedBaby]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I am with you - I think a mk7 Golf GTi PP is probably all the car you need most of the time. I could do 130 mile each way commute in mine no trouble, economical reasonably refined cruiser.... and then blast it around country roads and have fun...

Oh no. Is this the end of bimmerpost as we know it?

"All you need is something to get you from A to B" :

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

Oh no. Is this the end of bimmerpost as we know it?

"All you need is something to get you from A to B" :

Yes, and it is soon to be followed by the passing of the great bimmerpost "man maths" debates, the archiving of the "person who has just ordered a new car is told exactly how many mistakes they have made on their specification" lecture series and the "I have just ordered an M4 vert" sagas...

All that will be left will be the echoes of the legends of the past...

(why do I remember always jusdorange when I think about past members of Bimmerpost..????)...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I am with you - I think a mk7 Golf GTi PP is probably all the car you need most of the time. I could do 130 mile each way commute in mine no trouble, economical reasonably refined cruiser.... and then blast it around country roads and have fun...

I only have the one issue with mine, and that is that is has always had (and seemingly will always have) a significant number of rattles, creaks, vibrations etc... From new... and it has only done 8700 miles in total...

I am not saying all Golfs do... Nor that all GTI's do... In fact, maybe very few of them do... But mine unfortunately does, for some reason... and it rather takes away from the enjoyment of what is, otherwise, an absolute corker of a car...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

Oh no. Is this the end of bimmerpost as we know it?

"All you need is something to get you from A to B" :

Well it seems to be these days someone gets in the way when you want to have fun!

A to B with a bit of character and comfort and lots of goodies to play with, obvs...

[gIzzE]

Super fast cars that don't need to be worked and are pretty numb chassis wise don't make a great combo.

I have gone the other way, F31 320d ED Touring for racking up the miles and a Z4 coupe which still feels very analogue and fun.


I also bought an LCI E91 320i touring manual before lockdown and that is a real joy to drive on the twisties, you don't run out of road, it isn't and on/off thing with the gas, you have to drive it. It reminds me a lot of my old E30 325i, which was arguably the most fun I have had from any BMW I have owned, beating the M3's and right up there with the CSL.

It is going tomorrow, but it has been great fun. I bought a 320i N43 E92 M-Sport last year as it came up locally cheap and raved about that too. Something about the revvy little NA 2 litre engine with just enough power.
MPG is amazing too, 39mpg average and over 50 on a run.

[Firaxis]

It's easy to become numb to the fact many of these regular saloon's would leave supercars of yesteryear dead.

I've been saying for a long time anything over 230HP 0-60 (6.5) is utterly pointless but also anything less than 300HP feels gutless (especially petrol cars usually due to setup). Given the choice I'd take the power but as robbiep says, I secretly despise the fact I can't use it more.

Extra power has got me outta some crap situations in the past though, guess it's like having massive brakes. It's useless until a scenario arises..

BMW should make the equivalent of a Fiesta ST with a lot of torquey grunt across the range. Then the interior would cost more than 5p, it'd be a pleasant place to be and the engine / transmission would be awweeesommee. Not bothered about manuals nowadays, traffic sucks..

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Firaxis

It's easy to become numb to the fact many of these regular saloon's would leave supercars of yesteryear dead.

I've been saying for a long time anything over 230HP 0-60 (6.5) is utterly pointless but also anything less than 300HP feels gutless (especially petrol cars usually due to setup). Given the choice I'd take the power but as robbiep says, I secretly despise the fact I can't use it more.

Extra power has got me outta some crap situations in the past though, guess it's like having massive brakes. It's useless until a scenario arises..

BMW should make the equivalent of a Fiesta ST with a lot of torquey grunt across the range. Then the interior would cost more than 5p, it'd be a pleasant place to be and the engine / transmission would be awweeesommee. Not bothered about manuals nowadays, traffic sucks..

They do, Mini Cooper S / JCW....

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

They do, Mini Cooper S / JCW....

Yes, Mrs JNW1's Cooper S is fun to drive and the interior is pretty decent as well; the DCT gearbox is also noticeably better than the S-tronic in her old A1 Sportback and overall it's a very good car IMO. The only downside with hers is being the 3-door hatch it lacks a bit of practicality; however, you can always opt for a 5-door (or indeed a Clubman or a Countryman) if you need more space and/or better access to the rear seats.

With over 300bhp and 4WD I suspect something like a JCW Clubman would offer a good blend of fun and practicality on UK roads (albeit at a price!).

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Yeah, cars these days have grown considerably in size but many roads (and parking spaces) have not, so a BMW 3 now feels rather large on your typical Moorland B Road (often single track)..

Even something like a Boxster would struggle to pace a hot hatch on some of the roads up here... (actually, 2004 Boxster S has less power than some of the hatches have now)...

I actually quite like the fact that they are classless, in the sense that they don't say anything about who you are etc etc.. They are not really out to make a statement... and they do all you need them to... I have blended into the crowd far more in my Golf than the BMW's...

.. and I would contend that my GTI has more poise on some of those roads than my previous 3-ers (in terms of handling etc etc)...

Not surprised at all to hear you say this
The modern BMWs Ive owned just haven't handled well, period. All non-M. The last one which handled reasonably was my E61 M Sort and I'll qualify that by saying that it handled well for a large estate.
My last BMW was a 440i GC. Cracking engine and gearbox, let down by poor handling. Ultimate Driving Machine is an aspiration perpetuated by marketeers, pure and simple.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

They do, Mini Cooper S / JCW....

I know perception is a funny old thing but the Mini looks about the same size as Focus to me. Ironically far from mini..

Can't say I've ever compared specs though.

[gIzzE]

I think people forgot just how mechanical the cars from just 2 generations ago were compared to what we have today.

The F3X range have been designed to feel comfortable, spacious and above all to be extremely easy to drive.
The steering is a perfect example, it has become so light, which isn't just the fact it is an electric rack/column, it is also the geo they use, and they use this to make it all very effortless, but in doing so they also make it all a bit....well....numb.

The sport plus with the performance parts added felt too firm, to the point where there was not enough mechanical grip, the sport on 18's and proper tyres is pretty good, the SE is far too soft.


Mate has a 320i sport and he put on some Eibach Springs, he had the 17" wheels from the sport with Eagle F1's and that is superb to drive, feels great. Not too quick to be able to enjoy it, rides nicely, firm enough but also has some bite on our crapy roads, and the only thing that would be nice would be hydraulic steering.
Personally I would probably map it to 250hp, but there is no need to do so.


I think many would be really surprised if they jumped into an E46 3 series, E86 Z4 etc. etc. just how tame the cars are now that we drive now.
I jump into my Z4 coupe and drive into London from Norwich and for the first few miles think "Why I am taking this? It is an effort!"
But within 10 miles I am used to it, by the time I hit the bottom of the M11 I am thinking "Why have I even got an F31? Compared to this it is a bit meh!"


Luckily we get used to what we have pretty quickly, the problem comes you jump between the two, then the negatives of each start to stand out a bit too much.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

I think people forgot just how mechanical the cars from just 2 generations ago were compared to what we have today.

The F3X range have been designed to feel comfortable, spacious and above all to be extremely easy to drive.
The steering is a perfect example, it has become so light, which isn't just the fact it is an electric rack/column, it is also the geo they use, and they use this to make it all very effortless, but in doing so they also make it all a bit....well....numb.

Agreed and there's a massive difference between numb steering and bad steering. We're not talking Vectra C or old Astra VXR where on a track the amount of understeer pretty much made the steering wheel pointless.

BMW's have great handling in terms of getting you around a corner at speed, issue is it's done in a technically competent, easy to use fashion. Essentially it's a playstation controller in the shape of a steering wheel.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Firaxis

Agreed and there's a massive difference between numb steering and bad steering. We're not talking Vectra C or old Astra VXR where on a track the amount of understeer pretty much made the steering wheel pointless.

BMW's have great handling in terms of getting you around a corner at speed, issue is it's done in a technically competent, easy to use fashion. Essentially it's a playstation controller in the shape of a steering wheel.

You just reminded me of the Clarkson review of the Vectra VXR ... the one where he says he would go past the moons of Jupiter to avoid driving one!

Watch the video on the link below from 4:20 ... and see how badly it corners from 7:15

https://www.topgear.com/videos/monde...es-8-episode-6

[Soul_Glo]

Originally Posted by Hooded

You just reminded me of the Clarkson review of the Vectra VXR ... the one where he says he would go past the moons of Jupiter to avoid driving one!

Watch the video on the link below from 4:20 ... and see how badly it corners from 7:15

https://www.topgear.com/videos/monde...es-8-episode-6

There is only one way to drive this...
Then he crosses his arms :

The neighbours VXR has been shat sorry I mean sat in his garage for months. Fuel economy is in single figures.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by Hooded

You just reminded me of the Clarkson review of the Vectra VXR ... the one where he says he would go past the moons of Jupiter to avoid driving one!

Watch the video on the link below from 4:20 ... and see how badly it corners from 7:15

https://www.topgear.com/videos/monde...es-8-episode-6

LOL.! Ohh I do like the Mazda 6 MPS, if they release a new model I'd be all over it. Even the 3 MPS was really nice inside, handled well but suffered from epic torque steer.

[Broncho]

Remember the e90 320si, wasn’t it some sort of lighter weight, high revving homologation model? I always fancied one but couldn’t find one when I bought my 325i, I bet that was a great steer!

[gIzzE]

It was great fun to drive, it wasn't actually any lighter I don't think, it had a carbon cam cover that saved 10kg, but on the road car that made sod all difference, but it was all about the engine.
A lightweight 4 cylinder that revved to 7200rpm and was eager to get there.

It was the first time I drove a car and found myself saying "God this car wants to rev."
I had heard others say it before about cars and never really knew what they meant, I just thought they meant it had a higher rev range than some cars, but I suddenly got it, it was one of those cars that......well........just wanted to rev.


I got to drive an E30 M3 a few years back and that is the same, it is something that really is missing from all the forced induction cars these days. A reason why Porsche is bringing back NA engines too I guess?

The N43 actually feels very similar, as I said yesterday, an engine I think is so, so undervalued. I genuinely wonder why so many N47s were sold when the N43 was such a peach.

The N43 is smoother when driving round town, due to the fact it doesn't have that slab of torque the diesel has, but that is not a bad thing, but as the N47 is running out of puff the N43 is getting quicker and quicker, keep it in the rev range and it is so much fun.

Then we have MPG, I have had both in e91 guise and the 320i is actually better on fuel on sub 5 mile trips, averaged only 3 behind the diesel and even on a run there is only 5 mpg in it.


I really like light 4cyl cars you have to work a bit, I know I am weird, but on UK roads I really do.

[isleaiw1]

My first car was an E30 318iS - 4 cyl 16v, run out special. Loved that car, much more than a colleagues 320i of same vintage....with 6 cylinders!

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Tbh I'd say our Mini is plenty on UK roads. We've got the S Auto and it's more than enough, it's actually a hoot to drive. It was the Mrs that wanted it, and seeming I picked the last car I couldn't say no - but it's probably the most fun car we've had to drive so much so I'd happily have another. I contemplated the JCW at the time but for £3/4k extra I didn't see the value for the extra 0.7secs on the 0-60.

Problem is when you start getting into larger cars you get the power but having fun on them on B Roads etc isn't great as they're massive. A guy who I used to know bought an M5; said it was a great car but you couldn't have any fun in it cause of the size. Chopped it in for a M135i at the time.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

My first car was an E30 318iS - 4 cyl 16v, run out special. Loved that car, much more than a colleagues 320i of same vintage....with 6 cylinders!

Great car.

I had an E30 325i, always wished they had brought the 320is to the UK. The Italian M3.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Problem is when you start getting into larger cars you get the power but having fun on them on B Roads etc isn't great as they're massive. A guy who I used to know bought an M5; said it was a great car but you couldn't have any fun in it cause of the size. Chopped it in for a M135i at the time.

Can't disagree with any of that. Mrs BT has just taken delivery of a 118i MSport with a manual box, and I have to say I really like the way it handles on the back roads around here - nearly as quick as my X3 M40i and unsurprisingly a lot more planted feeling on fast twisties.

My only criticism would be the lack of grunt from the 1.5L 3cyl unit. It's quiet and not too stressed feeling most of the time, but mid-range power & torque are not great and the gearing is quite long.

I absolutely love my X3 but have to say the first couple of times I got back into it it felt a bit, well, brash and noisy by comparison.