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      11-26-2020, 02:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by 330XDave View Post
You can go out and eat and have a drink in London though. And at this time of year the countryside isn't half as attractive as it was 6 months ago!
Not as much as you think - a bunch of places havent opened as not enough custom / cant make it pay with social distancing, a bunch have gone bust...

and of course if you live in London by the time you have paid for accomm you have no money left to do anything with!

(says my son who lives in Elephant and Castle!)
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      11-26-2020, 02:46 PM   #46
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It's bollocks.

I live in Huntingdonshire where the infection rate is 70 per 100,000 and that includes towns such as Huntingdon and St Neots. Where I live, very rural area it's going to be even lower.

However we are lumped into Cambridgeshire and Peterborough (shit hole!) where the rate is 210 per 100,000.

So we are Tier 2 because of Peterborough and Cambridge with its large student population.
I'm actually from Peterborough. It wasn't such a bad place when I was growing up but I left over 30 years ago and most people agree it's gone downhill considerably.
I grew up in Market Deeping, 10 miles to the north. I now live about 10 miles south. I agree, 30 years ago it wasn't too bad. Queensgate was exciting and cutting edge, the Showcase was the first multi screen cinema I went to and was mind blowing at the time!

Now, particularly the town centre is rough. Needs massive investment. Full of cheap East European labour now.
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      11-26-2020, 03:12 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TouringPleb View Post
Now, particularly the town centre is rough. Needs massive investment.
Yeah, it's a shame. The nightclubs were always a bit tacky but there were some decent boozers in town and one or two good places to eat.

Anyway back on topic, and I'm back to being pissed off again. Oxford's infection rate is 60% higher than ours (probably more when you consider our village will almost certainly be below the district average), but they're tier 2 while we're at 3. This is because they benefit from all the surrounding areas being very low.

There is absolutely no logic to it.
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      11-26-2020, 03:12 PM   #48
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Not as much as you think - a bunch of places havent opened as not enough custom / cant make it pay with social distancing, a bunch have gone bust...

and of course if you live in London by the time you have paid for accomm you have no money left to do anything with!

(says my son who lives in Elephant and Castle!)
Nowhere would have opened yet as they can't until 2nd Dec. I'm sure there'll be enough of a choice of places to eat out in once the time comes.
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      11-26-2020, 03:34 PM   #49
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Nowhere would have opened yet as they can't until 2nd Dec. I'm sure there'll be enough of a choice of places to eat out in once the time comes.
Eating out is great, but perhaps I’m less bothered than you are about the injustice because I’m not bothered about heading back into the pubs and restaurants yet.

Don’t want the cycle of increased infections followed by total lockdown to continue, so personally I’m happy to keep away. Enjoying quite a lot of great take outs from local pubs and restaurants though, doing my bit to support them.
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      11-26-2020, 03:42 PM   #50
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What's with Londoners moaning about tier 2?
People in London generally commute between boroughs, likewise people in Sheffield and other areas commute between "areas".

What makes London so special - just because the "areas" have their own council?

Whingers.
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      11-26-2020, 04:03 PM   #51
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Nowhere would have opened yet as they can't until 2nd Dec. I'm sure there'll be enough of a choice of places to eat out in once the time comes.
He's lived there for 2 years, he wasnt talking about now specifically.

I'm from Chesterfield and friends there are moaning that it should be tier 2 and not 3 - separating it from local areas such as NE Derbyshire and Bolsover which are next door and in Derbyshire too.... Yet they moaned pre LD when Bolsover was in a different lower tier....

Its easy to whinge, but every system has an issue and in my mind simple is better so stick broadly to councils....
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      11-26-2020, 04:34 PM   #52
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Nowhere would have opened yet as they can't until 2nd Dec. I'm sure there'll be enough of a choice of places to eat out in once the time comes.
Eating out is great, but perhaps I’m less bothered than you are about the injustice because I’m not bothered about heading back into the pubs and restaurants yet.

Don’t want the cycle of increased infections followed by total lockdown to continue, so personally I’m happy to keep away. Enjoying quite a lot of great take outs from local pubs and restaurants though, doing my bit to support them.
We're the same, Saturday dinner will be a takeaway from the local gastropub. Not sure how well lamb shank, mash and minty gravy will travel but we'll give it a go.

Just annoyed we can't have our friends round for dinner the weekend after next. None of us have kids, we all work from home, we live in low (7th or 8th decile) infection areas, but we can't meet at home.

If we lived a few miles down the road we could all go to the pub for dinner and mix with complete strangers. It makes no sense.
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      11-26-2020, 04:41 PM   #53
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We're the same, Saturday dinner will be a takeaway from the local gastropub. Not sure how well lamb shank, mash and minty gravy will travel but we'll give it a go.

Just annoyed we can't have our friends round for dinner the weekend after next. None of us have kids, we all work from home, we live in low (7th or 8th decile) infection areas, but we can't meet at home.

If we lived a few miles down the road we could all go to the pub for dinner and mix with complete strangers. It makes no sense.
No set of rules is perfect, we’ve seen that all the way through. A line has to be drawn somewhere, just annoying when you live close to it.

Unfortunately I think it also has some logic. In September Chesterfield was one of the lowest regions in the country. But those nearby were pretty high. Only took a few short weeks for us to catch up. Presumably because people move between local areas a lot.
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      11-26-2020, 04:50 PM   #54
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We're the same, Saturday dinner will be a takeaway from the local gastropub. Not sure how well lamb shank, mash and minty gravy will travel but we'll give it a go.

Just annoyed we can't have our friends round for dinner the weekend after next. None of us have kids, we all work from home, we live in low (7th or 8th decile) infection areas, but we can't meet at home.

If we lived a few miles down the road we could all go to the pub for dinner and mix with complete strangers. It makes no sense.
No set of rules is perfect, we've seen that all the way through. A line has to be drawn somewhere, just annoying when you live close to it.

Unfortunately I think it also has some logic. In September Chesterfield was one of the lowest regions in the country. But those nearby were pretty high. Only took a few short weeks for us to catch up. Presumably because people move between local areas a lot.
I know, it's just that sense of injustice that rankles. We'll comply, we'll get through it, but it's annoying when people who are probably spreading it left right and centre get more latitude.
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      11-26-2020, 05:27 PM   #55
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What about if you are staying in a Tier 1 area though, maybe it is just me but it seems very unclear on this front.
I have 100% confidence in the inability of the Cornish Constabulary to police tier 2 visitors breaking their own rules
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      11-26-2020, 05:29 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
No set of rules is perfect, we’ve seen that all the way through. A line has to be drawn somewhere, just annoying when you live close to it.

Unfortunately I think it also has some logic. In September Chesterfield was one of the lowest regions in the country. But those nearby were pretty high. Only took a few short weeks for us to catch up. Presumably because people move between local areas a lot.
Agreed. Putting counties or even regions into one tier, rather than boroughs or towns makes a lot of sense to me. It removes the temptation to go to the pub that’s open in the next town if your town is in a more restrictive tier.

It would be unnecessary if the public could be relied upon to use common sense and understand the big picture, but we have more than our share of selfish idiots and rules have to be made with them in mind.
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      11-26-2020, 05:30 PM   #57
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There always was going to be a tighter regime before Xmas to permit the Xmas relaxations.

I do however think Whitty is right about those who care for elderly parents not getting too close to them until vaccination

Last edited by pmgreenwood; 11-27-2020 at 05:40 AM..
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      11-26-2020, 05:32 PM   #58
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I have 100% confidence in the inability of the Cornish Constabulary to police tier 2 visitors breaking their own rules
Idont think I will be breaking many rules with my 84 year old mother in tow
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      11-26-2020, 07:14 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
No set of rules is perfect, we've seen that all the way through. A line has to be drawn somewhere, just annoying when you live close to it.

Unfortunately I think it also has some logic. In September Chesterfield was one of the lowest regions in the country. But those nearby were pretty high. Only took a few short weeks for us to catch up. Presumably because people move between local areas a lot.
Agreed. Putting counties or even regions into one tier, rather than boroughs or towns makes a lot of sense to me. It removes the temptation to go to the pub that's open in the next town if your town is in a more restrictive tier.

It would be unnecessary if the public could be relied upon to use common sense and understand the big picture, but we have more than our share of selfish idiots and rules have to be made with them in mind.
Sorry but I don't get the obsession with pubs etc. We can't invite friends round to our house for dinner even though the four of us have had virtually no contact with anyone else for months. Quite happy to exercise common sense but we're not allowed to. There are loads of people mingling at work, the school gate etc but we're expected to stay apart and stay indoors. And meanwhile there's going to be a completely mindless relaxation of the rules for people whose lives revolve around the annual commercial spunkfest formerly known as the birth of the baby Jesus.

The first rule of law is that all are equal before the law and this latest fuckshambles is just another Johnson disaster waiting to implode.
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      11-27-2020, 01:53 AM   #60
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Sorry but I don't get the obsession with pubs etc. We can't invite friends round to our house for dinner even though the four of us have had virtually no contact with anyone else for months. Quite happy to exercise common sense but we're not allowed to. There are loads of people mingling at work, the school gate etc but we're expected to stay apart and stay indoors. And meanwhile there's going to be a completely mindless relaxation of the rules for people whose lives revolve around the annual commercial spunkfest formerly known as the birth of the baby Jesus.

The first rule of law is that all are equal before the law and this latest fuckshambles is just another Johnson disaster waiting to implode.
The aim is to minimise interractions whilst still doing the things that need to happen. Work still has to go on (where it cant be done effectively from home), kids still need to be educated (and they cant really take themselves at certain ages - although there are rules about mingling at the gates at my grandsons school). And for many, a few days to see family and have some normality at the end of a very difficult year is really important.

Dinner for a few friends on a Friday night doesnt really fit into the national need, I would imagine is how the govt view it.

And the law is equal - unless you are in tier 1, none of us can have mates round for dinner on a Friday night... not even 4 people who all work together!
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      11-27-2020, 03:58 AM   #61
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It would be unnecessary if the public could be relied upon to use common sense and understand the big picture, but we have more than our share of selfish idiots and rules have to be made with them in mind.
Exactly this
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      11-27-2020, 04:01 AM   #62
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The aim is to minimise interractions whilst still doing the things that need to happen. Work still has to go on (where it cant be done effectively from home), kids still need to be educated (and they cant really take themselves at certain ages - although there are rules about mingling at the gates at my grandsons school). And for many, a few days to see family and have some normality at the end of a very difficult year is really important.

Dinner for a few friends on a Friday night doesnt really fit into the national need, I would imagine is how the govt view it.

And the law is equal - unless you are in tier 1, none of us can have mates round for dinner on a Friday night... not even 4 people who all work together!
I tend to agree. And while I get why some want to enact the rules at borough level, it seems to me the more complex it gets, the less likely it is to happen.

What did surprise me was how long the Xmas window is and that 3 households can mix. I had expected it to be limited to 2 households and maybe Xmas Eve to Boxing Day.
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      11-27-2020, 04:04 AM   #63
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I tend to agree. And while I get why some want to enact the rules at borough level, it seems to me the more complex it gets, the less likely it is to happen.

What did surprise me was how long the Xmas window is and that 3 households can mix. I had expected it to be limited to 2 households and maybe Xmas Eve to Boxing Day.
Surprised me but it may be to allow people to travel - trains etc are poor and potentially crowded on Christmas Eve and dont run on Boxing Day.... so my son for example will be with us from 23rd (late) to 27th (early) just because he has to be (his words, not mine!)
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      11-27-2020, 04:46 AM   #64
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Sorry but I don't get the obsession with pubs etc. We can't invite friends round to our house for dinner even though the four of us have had virtually no contact with anyone else for months. Quite happy to exercise common sense but we're not allowed to.
How would you structure a law to allow people in your situation to have friends round for dinner, taking care to distance yourselves, while not allowing a complete free-for-all for those who don't give a sh1t?

Laws have to be made with the lowest common denominator in mind.
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      11-27-2020, 05:47 AM   #65
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Surprised me but it may be to allow people to travel - trains etc are poor and potentially crowded on Christmas Eve and dont run on Boxing Day.... so my son for example will be with us from 23rd (late) to 27th (early) just because he has to be (his words, not mine!)
I was wondering whether the period was so long because it gives enough time for the infection to become apparent before the guests i.e both sets of Grandparents (the reason for the 3 households) leave and you have the chance to say goodbye before they head off for ICU and the ventilator.
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      11-27-2020, 06:16 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
How would you structure a law to allow people in your situation to have friends round for dinner, taking care to distance yourselves, while not allowing a complete free-for-all for those who don't give a sh1t?

Laws have to be made with the lowest common denominator in mind.
Two households (which is what Whitty originally wanted) would cover that. Rule of 6 isn't and wasn't based on scientific advice, but what that c**t Gove suggested.

Also, continuing to include primary school kids in restrictions when they are spending 30 hours a week together makes no sense.
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