[Broncho]

Now that loads are going to be empty what the hell will they be filled with?

The high street seems dead so the likes of a nice big glitzy Debenhams unit, what on earth will it be used for? The place at Liverpool 1 is enormous, there now must be so much spare capacity in retail it’s unreal.

Are they destined to become dusty abandoned spaces occasionally visited by urbex adventurers?

High street retail was doomed but C19 has just accelerated the inevitable, what will happen to these multi million pound units?

[Watsey]

Indoor karting. Having one that occupies an entire multi-storey shopping centre would be awesome (escalators might be tricky).

[Broncho]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Indoor karting. Having one that occupies an entire multi-storey shopping centre would be awesome (escalators might be tricky).

Mario!

[stefan4]

Agreed, it's over. It's not like you could expect that office units will replace retail. Unfortunately the bulldozers need to come in. Each centre needs an entertainment complex with pop up stalls, and seasonal events, then anything that's left should be turned into park land IMO.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by stefan4

Agreed, it's over. It's not like you could expect that office units will replace retail. Unfortunately the bulldozers need to come in. Each centre needs an entertainment complex with pop up stalls, and seasonal events, then anything that's left should be turned into park land IMO.

Housing. Shortage of new homes solved at a stroke.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Housing. Shortage of new homes solved at a stroke.

If only.

Just looking locally, the Debenhams unit is fit for nothing but retail.

And the Arcadia shops are dotted around different areas of retail outlets. This is going to be a slow and painful death.

[Broncho]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

If only.

Just looking locally, the Debenhams unit is fit for nothing but retail.

And the Arcadia shops are dotted around different areas of retail outlets. This is going to be a slow and painful death.

100%

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

If only.

Just looking locally, the Debenhams unit is fit for nothing but retail.

And the Arcadia shops are dotted around different areas of retail outlets. This is going to be a slow and painful death.

So relocate the remaining shops into a strong core, and redevelop the areas vacated. That would be a win for everyone I suspect, a smaller vibrant town centre with no empty units, successful retailers and some contribution to relocation would’ve a winner, freeing up some of the older high street units for housing.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

So relocate the remaining shops into a strong core, and redevelop the areas vacated. That would be a win for everyone I suspect, a smaller vibrant town centre with no empty units, successful retailers and some contribution to relocation would’ve a winner, freeing up some of the older high street units for housing.

Nice dream. Not going to happen in my opinion.

The bigger units on the edge of town can’t move into the smaller ones in town and vice versa.

Plus, just speaking locally, not sure Chesterfield has much of a demand for town centre flats or houses with no gardens. And I can’t imagine the local council has a desire to flatten a historic town centre, or owners of the more successful newer outlets at the edge of town a desire to hand them over to housing.

As I said, a pipe dream and years of slow death. And I don’t imagine other towns are much different.

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Nice dream. Not going to happen in my opinion.

The bigger units on the edge of town can’t move into the smaller ones in town and vice versa.

Plus, just speaking locally, not sure Chesterfield has much of a demand for town centre flats or houses with no gardens. And I can’t imagine the local council has a desire to flatten a historic town centre, or owners of the more successful newer outlets at the edge of town a desire to hand them over to housing.

As I said, a pipe dream and years of slow death. And I don’t imagine other towns are much different.

It's a shame that this will be the reality. Would be amazing if someone did take a bold move though, because this is what's required.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by stefan4

It's a shame that this will be the reality. Would be amazing if someone did take a bold move though, because this is what's required.

If it was going to happen it already would have in my opinion. Retail has been dying for years and in the financial crash over a decade ago there were empty units everywhere. Didn’t make much difference and didn’t bring about a more holistic view in most places as far as I can see.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Nice dream. Not going to happen in my opinion.

The bigger units on the edge of town can’t move into the smaller ones in town and vice versa.

Plus, just speaking locally, not sure Chesterfield has much of a demand for town centre flats or houses with no gardens. And I can’t imagine the local council has a desire to flatten a historic town centre, or owners of the more successful newer outlets at the edge of town a desire to hand them over to housing.

As I said, a pipe dream and years of slow death. And I don’t imagine other towns are much different.

Slow death is the worst option. I agree it’s a dream but they have to do something and given we need more cheap housing and fewer shops it’s an obvious start..

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Nice dream. Not going to happen in my opinion.

The bigger units on the edge of town can’t move into the smaller ones in town and vice versa.

Plus, just speaking locally, not sure Chesterfield has much of a demand for town centre flats or houses with no gardens. And I can’t imagine the local council has a desire to flatten a historic town centre, or owners of the more successful newer outlets at the edge of town a desire to hand them over to housing.

As I said, a pipe dream and years of slow death. And I don’t imagine other towns are much different.

Slow death is the worst option. I agree it’s a dream but they have to do something and given we need more cheap housing and fewer shops it’s an obvious start..

But planning rules are a challenge to anything currently!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Slow death is the worst option. I agree it’s a dream but they have to do something and given we need more cheap housing and fewer shops it’s an obvious start..

But planning rules are a challenge to anything currently!

The current planning rules are a shambles IMO. On the one hand we hear continually about reducing car usage for environmental reasons but then we have new developments approved in rural villages that have no amenities and little or nothing in the way of a service from public transport (which means anyone buying the new homes has to have at least one car in the household, usually more).

The fact these houses are invariably built on greenfield sites just adds insult to injury and personally I think using brownfield sites in locations more adjacent to amenities would make far more sense; as you say, though, we can probably all dream on....

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JNW1

The current planning rules are a shambles IMO. On the one hand we hear continually about reducing car usage for environmental reasons but then we have new developments approved in rural villages that have no amenities and little or nothing in the way of a service from public transport (which means anyone buying the new homes has to have at least one car in the household, usually more).

The fact these houses are invariably built on greenfield sites just adds insult to injury and personally I think using brownfield sites in locations more adjacent to amenities would make far more sense; as you say, though, we can probably all dream on....

There wouldn’t be a bit of NIMBY in that response would there 😉😉

But I agree, use the sites we have to create affordable housing close to jobs and amenities. If necessary, make them public owned and ensure affordable rents for those who need to be close to work.

The public plan for my local area has an option to build 900 houses near me - yet the access road is already gridlocked half of the time. To be fair they have demolished some useless 60s buildings in town and approved flats but they are still too keen to build on green belt not old run down areas nearby.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

There wouldn’t be a bit of NIMBY in that response would there 😉😉

But I agree, use the sites we have to create affordable housing close to jobs and amenities. If necessary, make them public owned and ensure affordable rents for those who need to be close to work.

The public plan for my local area has an option to build 900 houses near me - yet the access road is already gridlocked half of the time. To be fair they have demolished some useless 60s buildings in town and approved flats but they are still too keen to build on green belt not old run down areas nearby.

The level of new builds on greenfield sites in our part of North Yorkshire is IMO pretty depressing; that's partly because of the way the sheer scale of it is changing the character of some towns and communities, partly because of the lack of any additional infrastructure to cope with all the extra housing. I'm sure we're not alone but that doesn't make it feel any better; in theory we're meant to have planning and development but from what I see local to us we have plenty of development but precious little in the way of planning!

[strike4A]

The Debenhams near me in Wandsworth which recently shut down is earmarked to be converted into a bowling alley, electric go-karting, laser tag arena, arcade, rope climbing, mini-golf and loads more. To be run by Gravity who operate many other similar venues. Due to be their first inner London venue and it's expected to run on a pay one price/play all day basis.

[doncarlyon]

Other retailers will potentially upgrade / combine their outlets.

For instance, in the metro centre the Debenhams is a fair size. Next are moving into it.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JNW1

The level of new builds on greenfield sites in our part of North Yorkshire is IMO pretty depressing; that's partly because of the way the sheer scale of it is changing the character of some towns and communities, partly because of the lack of any additional infrastructure to cope with all the extra housing. I'm sure we're not alone but that doesn't make it feel any better; in theory we're meant to have planning and development but from what I see local to us we have plenty of development but precious little in the way of planning!

I have a good friend who lives in the Harrogate York area and says the same and may possibly have been fighting one or two of the developments...

[Sasquartch]

Retail is changing, that's for sure.

I absolutely hate shopping and the easier it is to do the better. Although lots of things can be bought online I'd prefer to go to a real shop for things like clothes and food

The one thing that influences where I'll shop is parking. Many councils have killed town centres by making parking either very expensive or just plain difficult.

I see some of the future in large retail units on estates where retail and dotcom activities can be combined on one site.

There will always be space for smaller shops in town centres as long as the councils make it easy to visit.

Unfortunately none of this is considered green. Living in a village I would certainly not want to visit Tesco in the nearest town by public transport, it just isn't practical or desirable. So there has to be a place for cars.

[Sennen]

Surely the sensible option is to convert these vacant properties into affordable accommodation.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Sennen

Surely the sensible option is to convert these vacant properties into affordable accommodation.

As per previous posts, how is that practical in most cases? A shopping precinct with 20-30% empty units for example is not prime for residential conversion while the rest are still trading.

I suppose some of the larger, older, Debenhams city centre units might just be suitable for that. But I know the newer one near us and that just isn’t an option.

Many of the Arcadia and Debenhams units will also be in shopping centres like Meadowhall, Trafford Centre, Blue Water etc. Not a lot you can do with them.

A very small proportion may be suitable, but it certainly won’t hide the empty units and slow death of retail from visibility in my opinion.