[JD6]

He’s been PM for just a couple of days, if we don’t count the weeks of recess, and he’s already a lame duck. His supporters bought the inane optimism, but the reality is utter chaos, poor decision making and confusion - much like his TV personality.

If this bill to force an extension passes on Monday, and if the other parties don’t agree to an election (and why would they), then he’s going to be almost powerless. Meanwhile Rees Mogg seems to have completely misjudged parliament and been revealed for the arrogant tosser he is.

That little shit, Cummings, sounds more like the irate fictional Malcolm Tucker character every day.

It’s hard to see how Boris can survive this.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JD6

He’s been PM for just a couple of days, if we don’t count the weeks of recess, and he’s already a lame duck. His supporters bought the inane optimism, but the reality is utter chaos, poor decision making and confusion.

If this bill to force an extension passes on Monday, and if the other parties don’t agree to an election (and why would they), then he’s going to be almost powerless. Meanwhile Rees Mogg seems to have completely misjudged parliament and been revealed for the arrogant tosser he is.

That little shit, Cummings, sounds more like the fictional Malcolm Tucker character every day.

It’s hard to see how Boris can survive this.

There will be an election. It may be in November but there will be one.

I suspect after that both main parties will be after a new leader... the Tories will get a bloody nose, and despite having the worst government in memory, Labour won’t be able to get a majority....

[Cootie]

The guy is a complete moron. Never thought I’d say it but I’d actually take a Corbyn led Labour Party in preference and I truly never thought I’d see that. I just hope there is a renaissance in sensible centre ground politics sometime soon, from wherever it may come!

[Cootie]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

There will be an election. It may be in November but there will be one.

I suspect after that both main parties will be after a new leader... the Tories will get a bloody nose, and despite having the worst government in memory, Labour won’t be able to get a majority....

That’s my theory too. I could actually see a 1st election yielding a hung parliament, with a 2nd election following next year with a different set of party leaders.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

There will be an election. It may be in November but there will be one.

I suspect after that both main parties will be after a new leader... the Tories will get a bloody nose, and despite having the worst government in memory, Labour won’t be able to get a majority....

I agree that there will be an election, probably in November, but the other parties have a lot to gain from leaving Boris there as a lame duck, so that people see him for what he really is.

I also agree that Labour won’t get a majority, but I do worry that Corbyn will try and stay as leader, when the party really needs someone who can unite them.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Cootie

The guy is a complete moron. Never thought I’d say it but I’d actually take a Corbyn led Labour Party in preference and I truly never thought I’d see that. I just hope there is a renaissance in sensible centre ground politics sometime soon, from wherever it may come!

It is quite an achievement for Boris to make Corbyn look statesman-like!

I really hope we get back to centre ground politics too.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by JD6

I agree that there will be an election, probably in November, but the other parties have a lot to gain from leaving Boris there as a lame duck, so that people see him for what he really is.

I see the logic but isn't there also a danger associated with keeping Boris in power whilst very obviously tying his hands to prevent him doing anything? I think it's become clear to almost everyone that there needs to be a General Election to try to change the arithmetic in Parliament and move things forward and opposition parties who look to delay and frustrate that process may be seen as acting in self rather than national interest which could in turn backfire on them....

[JD6]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I see the logic but isn't there also a danger associated with keeping Boris in power whilst very obviously tying his hands to prevent him doing anything? I think it's become clear to almost everyone that there needs to be a General Election to try to change the arithmetic in Parliament and move things forward and opposition parties who look to delay and frustrate that process may be seen as acting in self rather than national interest which could in turn backfire on them....

I take your point. Currently Boris seems to be self-destructing on an almost hourly basis. The longer he’s in the public eye before an election the better from the opposition perspective. I suppose we can’t rely on that continuing for ever.

I think they could make a reasonable case that they need to see Brexit extended before calling the election, since they don’t trust him, but once that happens, I suppose there will be a need to act quickly.

[Vasumir]

Originally Posted by JD6

He's been PM for just a couple of days, if we don't count the weeks of recess, and he's already a lame duck. His supporters bought the inane optimism, but the reality is utter chaos, poor decision making and confusion - much like his TV personality.

If this bill to force an extension passes on Monday, and if the other parties don't agree to an election (and why would they), then he's going to be almost powerless. Meanwhile Rees Mogg seems to have completely misjudged parliament and been revealed for the arrogant tosser he is.

That little shit, Cummings, sounds more like the irate fictional Malcolm Tucker character every day.

It's hard to see how Boris can survive this.

Whilst I agree with you that he's making himself look as useful as a chocolate fireguard (nothing new there)....

I actually agree with him about the whole extension thing. Parliament keep forcing no deal off the table and make us ask the EU for an extension and it keeps going round in circles. They wouldn't back the deal that we got... so where the hell do they go from here? Are they just planning on constantly asking for an extension? It's as if they are living in denial.

For the record I voted remain and would very much like the whole thing cancelled and us to remain, but I'm now actually fed up of the whole thing and the sheer incompetence of all politicians and just want it done with.

I can't see a deal being done, so it's either crash out or cancel.

An election may solve it, I'm not sure how I'd vote as I assume Boris would campaign on getting us out no matter what.
I would assume Labour might campaign promising a second referendum? Trouble is I can't bring myself to vote for Corbyn, I think he'd probably be worse for the country than a no deal!

One has to assume if Labour had a reputable leader they'd be virtually guaranteed of winning an election against this government.

[Tengocity]

The problem is party leaders are chosen by the party membership ultimately, and they're all extremists by the looks of things, representing a narrow faction of the population at either political spectrum.

I suspect that there will be some kind of coalition if there's a general election, with SNP coming back strong in Scotland and the Lib Dem's everywhere. Perhaps them in cahoots to moderate the worst ideas of a labour government is a good outcome... which shows just how bad it is!

Apart from no deal exit, I'm all for Boris's ideas of increasing the entry point for higher rate tax and getting rid of stamp duty! I actually like his style in trying to do things with a bit more gusto and difference.

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by JD6

It is quite an achievement for Boris to make Corbyn look statesman-like!

I'm still not sure whether Boris is more embarrassing than Trump on the world stage. They really are two of a kind.

At least you get your elections done quickly and often. We're stuck with Trump until at least January 20, 2021... and maybe 2025, depending on what happens next November. We're already in campaign season, with only 14 months to go.

[Scoobyd]

Originally Posted by Vasumir

Trouble is I can't bring myself to vote for Corbyn, I think he'd probably be worse for the country than a no deal!

There’s no probably about it.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Vasumir

I can't see a deal being done, so it's either crash out or cancel.

That's pretty much where I've got to as well.

It seems pretty clear the EU are unlikely to move significantly from the current WA but that's been rejected three times by our own Parliament (and rightly so in my view as it's an awful arrangement from a UK perspective and actually worse than remaining). Therefore, if the WA - or something very close to it - is the only deal in town I don't see us doing a deal with the EU and that being the case our only viable options are leave with no deal or revoke A50 and remain.

I think the forthcoming election will in effect be a proxy for a further referendum; if the Conservatives - perhaps in coalition with the Brexit Party - gain a majority it will confirm a mandate for no deal but if a pro-remain coalition of Labour/Lib Dems/SNP/Greens is returned that will suggest there's no consent for no deal (which drives us back to Remain in my view). In the event we get the latter I'd favour just revoking A50 so we can all move on but I fear we'll end-up with another referendum which will just prolong the uncertainty and further divide an already divided country. We know the country is split pretty much down the middle with regard to our continued membership of the EU and a further referendum will serve only to confirm that; therefore, if the GE shows there's no mandate for leaving without a deal we should just revoke A50, remain and get on with it IMO.

[aquazi]

Originally Posted by Vasumir

Whilst I agree with you that he's making himself look as useful as a chocolate fireguard (nothing new there)....

I actually agree with him about the whole extension thing. Parliament keep forcing no deal off the table and make us ask the EU for an extension and it keeps going round in circles. They wouldn't back the deal that we got... so where the hell do they go from here? Are they just planning on constantly asking for an extension? It's as if they are living in denial.

For the record I voted remain and would very much like the whole thing cancelled and us to remain, but I'm now actually fed up of the whole thing and the sheer incompetence of all politicians and just want it done with.

I can't see a deal being done, so it's either crash out or cancel.

An election may solve it, I'm not sure how I'd vote as I assume Boris would campaign on getting us out no matter what.
I would assume Labour might campaign promising a second referendum? Trouble is I can't bring myself to vote for Corbyn, I think he'd probably be worse for the country than a no deal!

One has to assume if Labour had a reputable leader they'd be virtually guaranteed of winning an election against this government.

I'm in the same mindset as you... voted remain - but so fedup with it all; parliament being so childish.. i would much rather they just got on with it even if it means a no deal.

The uncertainty at the moment has led to a stalled economy; reduction in private sector spend and generaly a no-win for everyone

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by aquazi

I'm in the same mindset as you... voted remain - but so fedup with it all; parliament being so childish.. i would much rather they just got on with it even if it means a no deal.

The uncertainty at the moment has led to a stalled economy; reduction in private sector spend and generaly a no-win for everyone

Exactly the same.

Voted remain. Sick and tired of it all. Just want it sorted one way or the other. If it's leave, then for God's sake just leave.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Exactly the same.

Voted remain. Sick and tired of it all. Just want it sorted one way or the other. If it's leave, then for God's sake just leave.

I don't think that just leaving will provide the end to uncertainty that some imagine. We'll spend the next decade with a great deal of uncertainty as trade deals are negotiated, the most significant ones from a position of weakness. Negotiating the withdrawal agreement with the EU was the easy part.

We will face campaigns and probably referendums on Scottish independence, and perhaps Irish reunification. So I suspect that far from bringing certainty, leaving will just fire the starting gun of a chaotic decade or two.

[isleaiw1]

It appears the bookies dont expect us to leave this year - 1/5 that we wont leave this year.

They also think a hung parliament is most likely with a Tory majority in second and a Labour majority third....

So, we have the worst govt ever, the least trusted PM ever and Labour are still behind them according to the bookies....

If you were a member of the Labour NEC how would you feel about that? They'll probably blame the english media for their lies....

PS i find it funny that JC is having a go at BoJo about sacking the people who wouldnt vote as required, JC is trying to deselect long standing MPs that dont share the Momentum view and vote with him.

Hypocrites the lot of them!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

It appears the bookies dont expect us to leave this year - 1/5 that we wont leave this year.

They also think a hung parliament is most likely with a Tory majority in second and a Labour majority third....

So, we have the worst govt ever, the least trusted PM ever and Labour are still behind them according to the bookies....

If you were a member of the Labour NEC how would you feel about that? They'll probably blame the english media for their lies....

PS i find it funny that JC is having a go at BoJo about sacking the people who wouldnt vote as required, JC is trying to deselect long standing MPs that dont share the Momentum view and vote with him.

Hypocrites the lot of them!

If there's one thing the last three years have shown it's the lack of quality in our elected politicians. Going back to before the referendum there were one or two on here who argued the case for Remain based in part on a belief our incompetent politicians would be unable to negotiate anything half decent with the EU in the event of a Leave vote. I didn't believe they were that bad but I've got to hold my hand up and say I was wrong....

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JNW1

If there's one thing the last three years have shown it's the lack of quality in our elected politicians. Going back to before the referendum there were one or two on here who argued the case for Remain based in part on a belief our incompetent politicians would be unable to negotiate anything half decent with the EU in the event of a Leave vote. I didn't believe they were that bad but I've got to hold my hand up and say I was wrong....

Well on the subject, apparently on Question Time, Thornberry said that if Labour were in power they would negotiate with the EU "to the best of their ability" (low bar) and then put it to a referendum where she would campaign against the deal they had negotiated in favour of remain.....

I think that about sums up where we are at... Please negotiate with us but dont go to too much trouble as we dont really want it and the worse it is the easier it is to persuade people to remain....

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JNW1

If there's one thing the last three years have shown it's the lack of quality in our elected politicians. Going back to before the referendum there were one or two on here who argued the case for Remain based in part on a belief our incompetent politicians would be unable to negotiate anything half decent with the EU in the event of a Leave vote. I didn't believe they were that bad but I've got to hold my hand up and say I was wrong....

Leaving the negotiation - and subsequent implementation - of the biggest change programme to hit this country for many decades in the hands of the current crop of politicians, on both sides of the HoC, was never going to turn out well. One of the reasons I voted Remain.

[RobUK]

I get the impression that if there was a second referendum then there is a not insignificant chance that the result would be to remain. There are a number of reasons why this might be the case, but Google searching seems to suggest it’s a real possibility.

I am not advocating a second referendum and as a remain voter, like others I would like to see them just get the f*ck on with it. However given that more than three years have passed since the original vote, for how long does that vote remain and is considered the will of the people? Some have mentioned that to not leave the EU or to have a second referendum would be undemocratic, but given that General Elections are repeated every 4-5 years giving voters the opportunity to change their minds based on past performance, a little part of me wonders if a second referendum wouldn't be the pragmatic option? We seem to have more facts about what Brexit would actually mean although I dare say both sides would still lie and spin like crazy in the lead up to any second vote. Anyway, if the vote is still to leave then surely that would give our inept politicians more impetus to sort the whole damned mess out, and would silence the remain voters (myself included) into the bargain?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Well on the subject, apparently on Question Time, Thornberry said that if Labour were in power they would negotiate with the EU "to the best of their ability" (low bar) and then put it to a referendum where she would campaign against the deal they had negotiated in favour of remain.....

I think that about sums up where we are at... Please negotiate with us but dont go to too much trouble as we dont really want it and the worse it is the easier it is to persuade people to remain....

I rarely watch QT these days as Fiona Bruce has been a terrible chair : very biased in her management of the panel members according to the Remain/Leave position.

Ian Blackford and Emily Thornberry were a joke last night. Each of them was asked, many many times, on which date they want a GE to be held. Every time they ducked the question and diverted to the same tired monologue : we can't trust the Conservatives, we're trying to uphold democracy (completely unbelievable given the political developments this week). During the course of a one hour debate neither of them gave a date.

Thornberry was particularly bad, as you've pointed out. She's pro-Remain but would try to negotiate a deal with the EU in the interests of respecting democracy in the UK, and would then have the New Deal and Remain as options in a second referendum. Farcical ! She's completely conflicted, and by the nature of that she has no integrity whatsoever. The EU would, of course, simply brush the dust off the existing WA or offer a worse deal - after all, if it's Deal or Remain, the Deal may as well be as bad as possible. The look on her face as she tried to construct that reply was tragic, but it tells us what we already knew about Labour : grab power at any price.

The political developments this week have been shocking. We now have unelected parties cutting the legs from underneath the elected government, not only by not backing the governments proposals (I have not issue with this - not agreeing is perfectly normal), but forming new laws which dictate what the government cannot do (use No Deal as a negotiating tool) and dictate what the PM must do (go to the EU to request an extension to A50). Labour, the LibDems and the SNP have not been elected into government but are now effectively running the country.

Irrespective of Brexit being at the centre of this particular situation, people should be up in arms about this blatant power-grab.