[TQMp5135]

I've had this issue for a while now - around 7k miles (now on 40k).
I originally approached the dealer when my car was still under Approved Used Warranty. They said it would cost me £600 in labour (not covered by warranty) to take the clutch apart and just see that was wrong, excluding the cost of any replacement parts/labour. I therefore of course told them not to bother.

This isn't a major issue as the car drives and shifts absolutely fine, but needless to say it's a bit annoying and distracts partially from the driving experience. The issue is as follows:

1. Rattle from the clutch in neutral with the clutch engaged only when the car is warm which goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed.

2. Rattle when engaging first gear and moving off as I lift the clutch up (most notably when I don't get the rpm quite high enough) when the car is warm.

2. A "buzz" that you can feel through the pedal when upshifting at higher rpms when the car is warm.

3. Slight rattle when driving around in 1st and 2nd around 2 - 3k rpm.

5. None of the above issues occur when the car is cold.

Anyone had this and managed to fix successfully? I had put it off for months and just got used to it really. It hasn't got that much worse although maybe a bit. The car is now out of warranty. Keen to see if there are any sure fixes out there that I could consider.

Many thanks.

[Sasquartch]

Its could be the gearbox input shaft rattling a little, this is a common issue in many cars and may not be anything that will fail as such. Possibly a gearbox oil change might help.
It could be the DMF, the function of which is to damp out the pulses from each cylinder firing. If this is on the way out it could be itself making a noise or causing something else to rattle
Unfortunately it's impossible to diagnose over the internet with any certainty but are to able to post up the symptoms on YouTube and hopefully it will sound familiar to someone.
Alternatively visit a decent indy who are probably far more likely to give you some decent advice

[Lagemba]

Honestly the symptoms sound the same as my 420d exhaust. We originally thought it might be the clutch also, but basically something is in the DPF and it rattles when in idle or low RPMs and is quite loud. The mechanic wanted to open it and take out whatever's causing it but I've postponed it. Maybe check that or positive it's the clutch?

[TQMp5135]

Originally Posted by Sasquartch

Its could be the gearbox input shaft rattling a little, this is a common issue in many cars and may not be anything that will fail as such. Possibly a gearbox oil change might help.
It could be the DMF, the function of which is to damp out the pulses from each cylinder firing. If this is on the way out it could be itself making a noise or causing something else to rattle
Unfortunately it's impossible to diagnose over the internet with any certainty but are to able to post up the symptoms on YouTube and hopefully it will sound familiar to someone.
Alternatively visit a decent indy who are probably far more likely to give you some decent advice

Thanks. I did suspect the input shaft myself actually after a bit of research on the issue. Good idea about the oil change. I might try that.

I’ve heard the DMFs can rattle too, but I’ve heard it’s just the nature of them and replacing won’t fix anything. If that’s the case I won’t bother. But if mine is on its way out and that’s the reason for the rattle, I’ll consider replacing it.
Will try and post a video next time I am in in the car long enough for the rattle to start. Cheers.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by michaelcami

Honestly the symptoms sound the same as my 420d exhaust. We originally thought it might be the clutch also, but basically something is in the DPF and it rattles when in idle or low RPMs and is quite loud. The mechanic wanted to open it and take out whatever's causing it but I've postponed it. Maybe check that or positive it's the clutch?

Presumably the OP won't have a rattly DPF if it's a 435i?

[Lagemba]

Originally Posted by F82Dude

Presumably the OP won't have a rattly DPF if it's a 435i?

Ahhhhh you're right, sorry I'm blind!

[Russbmw]

Have no idea what gearboxes they use on the manuals these days, but I had a ZF box on my old e39 528 that was a manual, and that developed gear chatter at about 60k miles, so after much arguing with BMW, had it replaced under goodwill by BMW and I just had to pay labour.

At about 110k, the new one was starting to chatter as well. It was quite a common annoyance apparently.

Presumably BMW are still using effectively ATF fluid, which is thin as piss, and doesn't help matters. Redline used to do a thicker oil which did help.

Anyway, not sure if it's the same problem to be honest, but sounds very familiar. Mine would would behave almost exactly the same:

- no rattling when cold, getting worse the more the car warmed up
- no noise with the clutch depressed (I initially thought it was as simple as a knackered thrust bearing, but unfortunately not)
- used to stop chattering if you pushed forward slightly on the gearstick without pressing the clutch.

If it's gear chatter, you can (if you have money to burn) have the box rebuilt and they shim all the gears to stop the chatter - but even that isn't a guaranteed permanent fix unfortunately.

I investigated all this years back with mine, obviously, and spent a lot of time talking to a reputable and well known guy back in the day, called Neil from All Gears. It's not suddenly going to fail and splatter lumps of gearing down the road or anything, it's just fucking annoying - especially when it all gets hot in summer.

[TQMp5135]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Have no idea what gearboxes they use on the manuals these days, but I had a ZF box on my old e39 528 that was a manual, and that developed gear chatter at about 60k miles, so after much arguing with BMW, had it replaced under goodwill by BMW and I just had to pay labour.

At about 110k, the new one was starting to chatter as well. It was quite a common annoyance apparently.

Presumably BMW are still using effectively ATF fluid, which is thin as piss, and doesn't help matters. Redline used to do a thicker oil which did help.

Anyway, not sure if it's the same problem to be honest, but sounds very familiar. Mine would would behave almost exactly the same:

- no rattling when cold, getting worse the more the car warmed up
- no noise with the clutch depressed (I initially thought it was as simple as a knackered thrust bearing, but unfortunately not)
- used to stop chattering if you pushed forward slightly on the gearstick without pressing the clutch.

If it's gear chatter, you can (if you have money to burn) have the box rebuilt and they shim all the gears to stop the chatter - but even that isn't a guaranteed permanent fix unfortunately.

I investigated all this years back with mine, obviously, and spent a lot of time talking to a reputable and well known guy back in the day, called Neil from All Gears. It's not suddenly going to fail and splatter lumps of gearing down the road or anything, it's just fucking annoying - especially when it all gets hot in summer.

Thanks for that. That all seems to stack up with what I am experiencing. It also makes a lot of sense since oil becomes thinner when warm and the extra play in the gears would allow them to slowly over time become more rattly.

It’s sounding more and more like this is something that I can’t avoid and a replacement would only buy me time before it starts happening again. If that’s the case then I guess I’m stuck.

Although having BMW replace under goodwill would be nice. I could have 30k more miles of smooth shifting. I did report it when the car was under warranty so maybe that will help me.

[Sasquartch]

Just to add, I had exactly this problem with a Opel Manta 1.8 back in the 1980s

This too had a manual ZF box and chattered quite badly when hot

I tried to get it replaced but was told it wasnt a fault and even had a letter from GM tech support department to say it was a characteristic

I guess consumer law is somewhat better these days though so you still might get some goodwill. Certainly no harm in following it up

Otherwise an oil change would be a good place to start

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by michaelcami

Ahhhhh you're right, sorry I'm blind!

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Have no idea what gearboxes they use on the manuals these days, but I had a ZF box on my old e39 528 that was a manual, and that developed gear chatter at about 60k miles, so after much arguing with BMW, had it replaced under goodwill by BMW and I just had to pay labour.

Think they use Getrag for manuals, but could have that wrong...

[TQMp5135]

An update on this. Clearly the problem was a lot more sinister than originally suspected. My clutch has now completely failed. I was setting off from my parking space earlier this week and I heard a “pop!” and then my car became stuck in gear and my clutch pedal went all spongey and stiff at the bottom as if there were a tennis ball stuck under the pedal.

I had to turn the engine off to get it out of gear. It shifts fine with the engine off but once I turn the engine on it won’t go into gear. Sounds like my clutch is stuck engaged.

If you re-read my original post you can see why I am pretty annoyed at the dealer about this. The car has 40,000 miles. This would have definitely been a warranty item. I’m now conveniently out of warranty of course. I understand now that the cost of disassembling the clutch would have been covered under warranty once they found that the issue was a warranty item. They didn’t explain this to me correctly at the time. Currently in conversation with them to see if there’s anything they can do to help me given I took the issue to them when it was under warranty.

So my advice would be if you have these symptoms, get it checked out.

[LJG92]

Originally Posted by Lagemba

Honestly the symptoms sound the same as my 420d exhaust. We originally thought it might be the clutch also, but basically something is in the DPF and it rattles when in idle or low RPMs and is quite loud. The mechanic wanted to open it and take out whatever's causing it but I've postponed it. Maybe check that or positive it's the clutch?

Not sure if this is still relevant being a few years old but I recently had an identical issue to you on my 420d GC , at first I suspected heat shield but couldn’t see anything loose , the next was DPF flexi cracked but after testing for exhaust leak that was eliminated . It turned out to be a cracked bracket that actually supports the exhaust near the flexi , it’s attached to or close to the gearbox , had it taken off welded and put back on .... noise gone.

Symptoms pre repair = rattling at standstill if revving slowly to 900 - 1000 rpm , and a load metallic rattle and vibration ( that transferred onto interior dash area ) when accelerating around the 1800-2000rpm mark when the engine was experiencing load .

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by F82Dude

Think they use Getrag for manuals, but could have that wrong...

No, they seemed to alternate between suppliers.

On the e39 at least, it was as follows:

BMW 525i 2001-2002 M52TU, M54: Getrag S5D 250G
BMW 540i 1997-2003 M62: ZF/Getrag S6S 420G
BMW 528i 1997-2002 M52: ZF S5D 320Z
BMW 530i 2001-2002 M54: ZF S5D 320Z

Mine was a 1998 528i, hence ZF.