[Alice Coupe]

Originally Posted by JustChris

What?

Look at the dash cam footage again and tell me that car is slowing down!

Also look at the cars on the opposite carriageway. There are many flashing to warn the drivers in the dash cam cars direction that they are heading towards a very dangerous situation!!! Look at the delay between the flashes and the time taken for the caravan to arrive lots of time for the caravan car to slow down.

I appreciate that you are looking to make me out as ageist and give the caravan driver every benefit of the doubt but seriously???!!!!!

Yep I watched it again several times just now. The white. Am clearly flashes on almost passes by several seconds before the caravan car...which in that time must have been travelling the wrong way for quite enough time to realise they're doing something ludicrously dangerous!??!

I didn’t say they were slowing down.
I explained quite pleasurable reasons that in less than 200 metres they haven’t slowed down.

When you get something like this wrong, it takes the brain a surprising time to worki it out and to correct.

It’s a similar thing if, in an automatic car, you hit the gas instead of the brake. First thing your brain does is make you press the “brake” harder and of course you accelerate harder.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JustChris

What?

Look at the dash cam footage again and tell me that car is slowing down!

Also look at the cars on the opposite carriageway. There are many flashing to warn the drivers in the dash cam cars direction that they are heading towards a very dangerous situation!!! Look at the delay between the flashes and the time taken for the caravan to arrive lots of time for the caravan car to slow down.

I appreciate that you are looking to make me out as ageist and give the caravan driver every benefit of the doubt but seriously???!!!!!

Seriously doubt it was a suicide pact, or deliberate in any way. Hooking a caravan up first at 80 odd seems like hard work for no reason.

My personal opinion is that they got confused and had no idea what they were doing. I don't blame them for it, there are loads of examples where old folk make silly driving mistakes, some of them fatal, some not.

Right now it's down to family members or GP's to report them or try and stop them if they're not capable of driving. Family members have emotion involved and don't want to suddenly trap them at home. GP's have million things to look at and I doubt they'd even know if the 85 year old they've just seen has a driving licence or not.

It should be taken out of their hands and re-tests or assessments should be mandatory after a certain age.

[Alice Coupe]

No doubt this will add furter unsupported conclusions to the sorry story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-45901084

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Skwirrel

If you know the junction ahead it is easy to see how someone with poor ability to process what they are seeing could get it so wrong. M40 south bound is the turning over the bridge, the exit slip road from the northbound (Oxford) M40 looks very inviting if you interpret that the sign is directing you down there.

A329
A329, Thame OX9 2JN
https://goo.gl/maps/JuZUBMaXAL12

Still, to get to the bottom of the slip road and to keep going is madness. It was absolute carnage apparently, a friend at work got caught up in it.

Both my parents are in there 70's and their driving has deteriorated significantly since they stopped using the car every day or going very far. In fact my mum has just stopped driving for medical reasons and doesn't feel safe being driven by my dad.

If the attached Google Maps image is for the correct junction, I can see how it happened. The motorway exit slip road is shown on the right, but the road layout allows for cars exiting the motorway to turn right across the A329.

Although there are painted chevrons and No Entry signs the motorway slip road is not oblique enough. It's easily possible to make a left turn from the A329 onto the exit slip. If the exit junction was much more oblique exiting cars could still turn right to join the A329 but a driver on the A329 would have to do a 180 degree turn to access the slip road.

A good example of really bad road design.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Alice Coupe

Did you read the story.

Idiot.

I think it's great that you are so-understanding of the poor confused couple. Almost to the extent they are blameless and it's actually ok because the road design might not be perfect.

You maybe seem to miss the direction of my angst. A complete random guy was killed through no fault of his own other than being at the wrong time, wrong place.

This happened to my younger brother who sadly died in the incident which at least gives me a little license to rant.

In my opinion it is incredibly selfish of the elderly driver to continue driving on public roads, now that the prior accident has come to notice.

Would you feel so sorry for the old couple had they killed a member of your family?

Can I reiterate to me also this is a tragic event and I'm not in any way revelling in it...but people leaping to the defence of the old driver is ... just not something I can agree with.

Peace out, and all drive home safe to your families please.

[Alice Coupe]

Originally Posted by JustChris

I think it's great that you are so-understanding of the poor confused couple. Almost to the extent they are blameless and it's actually ok because the road design might not be perfect.

You maybe seem to miss the direction of my angst. A complete random guy was killed through no fault of his own other than being at the wrong time, wrong place.

This happened to my younger brother who sadly died in the incident which at least gives me a little license to rant.

In my opinion it is incredibly selfish of the elderly driver to continue driving on public roads, now that the prior accident has come to notice.

Would you feel so sorry for the old couple had they killed a member of your family?

Can I reiterate to me also this is a tragic event and I'm not in any way revelling in it...but people leaping to the defence of the old driver is ... just not something I can agree with.

Peace out, and all drive home safe to your families please.

I see you deleted your post advocating death for the elderly couple realising the stupidity of the comment. It is however captured in quotes for reference.

Let me be clear. I’m not defending anyone, I wasn’t there I don’t have all the facts. Im merely presenting another side of what I have repeatedly said is a very sad story. I feel sorry for everyone involved, directly or indirectly. I think it’s wrong to jump in and blame without knowing all the facts.

[JD6]

I'm with JustChris on this.

I accept that we all have momentary lapses of judgement, and that we certainly don't have the full facts here. But the dashcam footage reveals a standard of driving which is so far outside the range of normal bad driving, it suggests there is something very wrong with the driver's judgement.

I have seen quite a few examples of elderly bad driving recently, including being reversed into in slow motion where the driver kept trying to reverse after he'd hit me.

It does feel like the current system of self-assessment for elderly drivers is completely inadequate. Family members are often reluctant to be the ones taking away the keys until something major and undeniable happens. Mandatory testing from 70 perhaps every 2 or 3 years would make sense to me.

[isleaiw1]

Sorry to hear about your brother Chris, personal experience always makes these events more difficult.

[Skwirrel]

It's a tough one I think there are lots of drivers of all ages who probably shouldn't be driving.

I can see that as people get older, especially in more rural areas it is harder to give up driving without a significant loss of independence.

My mum has recently had to surrender her licence as she was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Fortunately she is responding well to treatment, and whilst it is a horrible thing to deal with, the fact she cannot drive the new car they picked up the week she found out has hit her harder than her medical limitations. Having to get the bus to go in to town, not be able to pick the grand children up or constantly asking for lifts has had a far bigger impact than the prospect of surgery for someone who has been driving for at least 50 years.

They have only had two cars for the last ten years or so and after bringing up four kids she could finally do what she wanted, when she wanted. It is unlikely she will drive again, even through the prognosis is positive.

Paying for a taxi seems too indulgent even though they can well afford it. I drive past their house twice a day and my work have given me open ended time away to help her attend hospital appointments as needed. She still resists offers of help as she doesn't want to be any bother.

If my dad stopped driving, and he probably should in the next 3-5 years, they'd be very reliant on family and friends unless they move. Ironically the one who should stop driving will have to keep driving longer to support than the one who legally can't.

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Possibly panicked and went into automatic mode. Thought they were keeping left. Read plenty of stories where elderly people have pressed the accelerator into of the brake pedal (particularly in the States with autos). Logic says why didn't they just stop but something takes over.

All I can think of is the sheer terror and panic they must have felt before the inevitable head on. Not a nice way to go.

When you read the full article he was involved in another accident only a week earlier and police are investigating that one, really scary

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Sorry to hear about your brother Chris, personal experience always makes these events more difficult.

Sincerely thank you for that and apologies to all perhaps for my (now deleted) comment on page 1. To me however the dash cam driving footage is near suicidal behaviour that I just can't understand.

[Alice Coupe]

Originally Posted by JD6

I'm with JustChris on this.

I accept that we all have momentary lapses of judgement, and that we certainly don't have the full facts here. But the dashcam footage reveals a standard of driving which is so far outside the range of normal bad driving, it suggests there is something very wrong with the driver's judgement.

I have seen quite a few examples of elderly bad driving recently, including being reversed into in slow motion where the driver kept trying to reverse after he'd hit me.

It does feel like the current system of self-assessment for elderly drivers is completely inadequate. Family members are often reluctant to be the ones taking away the keys until something major and undeniable happens. Mandatory testing from 70 perhaps every 2 or 3 years would make sense to me.

So you support that:

"Hopefully they killed themselves and hurt no one else."
and the "Couple in their 80s on a suicide pact "

It's stupid (now deleted) statements like that I'm criticising.

Totally agree, below par driving etc etc, but I've seen footage of people much younger doing exactly the same. You can't just say it's because of their age.

You don't know the circumstances of the previous accident either so who's to judge?

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Sincerely thank you for that and apologies to all perhaps for my (now deleted) comment on page 1. To me however the dash cam driving footage is near suicidal behaviour that I just can't understand.

Sorry about your loss, agree with you.

As mentioned earlier I lost a friend up in North Wales for same type of head on crash by an elderly driver wrong way on road.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...jones-14330134

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Alice Coupe

So you support that:

"Hopefully they killed themselves and hurt no one else."
and the "Couple in their 80s on a suicide pact "

It's stupid (now deleted) statements like that I'm criticising.

Totally agree, below par driving etc etc, but I've seen footage of people much younger doing exactly the same. You can't just say it's because of their age.

You don't know the circumstances of the previous accident either so who's to judge?

Below par driving. ::

Are you fucking mental, take a look again at the video, one last time. You've spent more time criticising me than the THE DRIVER WHO KILLS A MAN!!!!!!!!

Running a red light is below par.
Tailgating is below par.
Driving the wrong way down a motorway, moving to the outside lane and not stopping for clearly a period of time. If you think that is below par driving just



Still he didn't say something bad on Bimmerpost, and he's old so it's alllllllll goooood it's barely his fault poor chap...wait a minute could the driver killed have been speeding...it's his fault?!

Stop lashing out at my clearly clumsy initial remark, will you actually apportion some terrible blame on the driver of the Subaru, he's killed 3 people!

[Alice Coupe]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Below par driving. ::

Are you fucking mental, take a look again at the video, one last time. You've spent more time criticising me than the THE DRIVWR WHO KILLS A MAN!!!!!!!!

Running a red light is below par.
Tailgating is below par.
Driving the wrong way down a motorway, moving to the outside lane and not stopping for clearly a period of time. If you think that is below par driving just



Still he didn't say something bad on Bimmerpost, and he's old so it's alllllllll goooood it's barely his fault poor chap...wait a minute could the driver killed have been speeding...it's his fault?!

Stop lashing out at my clearly clumsy initial remark, will you actually apportion some terrible blame on the driver of the Subaru, he's killed 3 people!

You should actually try reading my posts rather than rushing through them and drawing a conclusion and lambasting me. However, I sympathise with your loss and can understand your anger at the driver but, and I’ll say it again, you don’t know all the facts so cannot judge.

You have your view. I have mine. I’m not getting drawn to an argument b

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by JD6

I'm with JustChris on this.

I accept that we all have momentary lapses of judgement, and that we certainly don't have the full facts here. But the dashcam footage reveals a standard of driving which is so far outside the range of normal bad driving, it suggests there is something very wrong with the driver's judgement.

I have seen quite a few examples of elderly bad driving recently, including being reversed into in slow motion where the driver kept trying to reverse after he'd hit me.

It does feel like the current system of self-assessment for elderly drivers is completely inadequate. Family members are often reluctant to be the ones taking away the keys until something major and undeniable happens. Mandatory testing from 70 perhaps every 2 or 3 years would make sense to me.

Why 70 make it earlier say 50 every 2 years either a refresher or a test should be mandatory young drivers get hit with severe penalties after their initial test. Then we can target the in-betweens at a later date.

[dizzy619]

Originally Posted by Alice Coupe

You should actually try reading my posts rather than rushing through them and drawing a conclusion and lambasting me. However, I sympathise with your loss and can understand your anger at the driver but, and I’ll say it again, you don’t know all the facts so cannot judge.

You have your view. I have mine. I’m not getting drawn to an argument b

Not getting drawn??? You've been wittering on for about 10 posts!!

[Alice Coupe]

Originally Posted by dizzy619

Not getting drawn??? You've been wittering on for about 10 posts!!

Hahahahahaha. You’re just too funny.

[Bibbles]

Holy fuck, you'd need to be completely blind or out of your mind to drive like that. I feel very sorry for the guy that lost his life by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. As for the other two, it seems like they were trying for a darwin award. The junction isn't that badly signed, there's clearly more than one no entry sign, arrows on the road pointing in the other direction and you're then entering a busy motorway with 3 lanes of oncoming traffic so if you miss all of this and then swerve across and continue to drive into incoming traffic, you're not safe to leave your house on your own let alone get behind the wheel of a car.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by JD6

I'm with JustChris on this.

So am I! I cannot believe anyone would seek to mitigate the actions of the driver.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Alice Coupe

Totally agree, below par driving etc etc, but I've seen footage of people much younger doing exactly the same. You can't just say it's because of their age.

Well you can in fact insurers reflect that in their pricing and you can also say that people continue to drive past a point that is safe to do so, as this incident clearly demonstrates.

Plenty of reports/articles on age related issues that should stop people driving that are not acted upon hence accidents like this happen.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Wills2

So am I! I cannot believe anyone would seek to mitigate the actions of the driver.

Same here, 100%