[gameson]

Just want to know. Does N20 have turbo lag if paired with bigger intercooler? For example, vrsf is offering 6.5” competition and race intercooler

Our vendor is offering 7” MAD FMIC for $350, great price, but with such size, i am worried about turbo lag

Car mods

All pipes are changed (down, charge, turbo)
Full exhaust system. Turbo back
Bm3 stage 2
XHP transmission tune

That’ll be it.

Thank you.

[sspade]

Considering this is pretty much the cherry on top of your FBO build… No, I dont believe adding an aftermarket intercooler will introduce much if any turbo lag at all.

That being said, I wouldn't necessarily choose the biggest baddest F30 intercooler you can find considering we are talking about the four banger vs N55. Choosing an intercooler with too much volume could present some turbo lag potentially.

[gameson]

Yes, i was actually reading this thread and thejeremyman9 said that it should not have any turbo lag on his n55

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1872731

But he also asks me to post on n20 section to get proper response.

I am currently thinking either MAD 7” race or vrsf 6.5”. Right now leaning towards MAD due to lower pricing than vrsf 6.5” competition but MAD has bigger volume than vrsf. Hence this thread

[johnung]

Originally Posted by gameson

Yes, i was actually reading this thread and thejeremyman9 said that it should not have any turbo lag on his n55

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1872731

But he also asks me to post on n20 section to get proper response.

I am currently thinking either MAD 7" race or vrsf 6.5". Right now leaning towards MAD due to lower pricing than vrsf 6.5" competition but MAD has bigger volume than vrsf. Hence this thread

You are correct to be concerned about lag. The larger the volume of the intercooler, the greater the chance of lag. Bigger is not always better. Putting a huge intercooler meant for an N55 on a Stage2 N20 is likely to be overkill for cooling and be more likely to increase lag.

The goal in choosing an FMIC for a street car is to get one with enough capacity to cool effectively, but not so much excess capacity that it causes excess turbo lag.

Race cars need huge intercoolers because they are running high revs all of the time. But daily street driving is a low rev environment with lots of standing starts at stop signs and when lights turn green. Also when trying to pass another car or trying to accelerate onto a freeway.

That's when turbo lag is obvious. It's that delay from when your foot presses the accelerator and your feel the engine power come on. Most guys will claim that they have no lag but often it's that they don't know when to look for it or they have just gotten used to their car's lag. If they drive a car with less lag they find it to be more responsive and more drivable, often without understanding why.

[sqwinny]

No need to go larger than 5" for the n20. Otherwise if you are going to go stage 2 + big turbo + custom tune, 6.5" is the way to go.

Heck running the $200 G plus 5" with FBO stage 2 off the shelf tune it was perfectly fine with temps + back to back pulls + fitment.

I'd go CSF/Wagner evo 2/mishimoto/evolution raceworks if I was to do it again. The BEST intercooler it seems too can buy for the f30 n20 appears to be the Dinan dual core, but it'll set you back 1k or so.

[sspade]

FWIW...

Im currently running the ARM Motorsports FMIC (and downpipe) on my N20. On my prior vehicle I ran the GPlus unit. Both cars are FBO with BM3 stage 1 flash.

Having installed both myself, would recommend either but consdidering the ARM is almost identical to the Evolution Racewerks Competition... I'd say this is obviously the better performer and possibly the best value in the market for F30.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by sqwinny

No need to go larger than 5" for the n20. Otherwise if you are going to go stage 2 + big turbo + custom tune, 6.5" is the way to go.

Heck running the $200 G plus 5" with FBO stage 2 off the shelf tune it was perfectly fine with temps + back to back pulls + fitment.

I'd go CSF/Wagner evo 2/mishimoto/evolution raceworks if I was to do it again. The BEST intercooler it seems too can buy for the f30 n20 appears to be the Dinan dual core, but it'll set you back 1k or so.

I agreed with you on the N20 intercooler recommendations right up until the last paragraph where you started listing intercoolers that were very different from each other.

[sqwinny]

Originally Posted by johnung

I agreed with you on the N20 intercooler recommendations right up until the last paragraph where you started listing intercoolers that were very different from each other.

They are slightly but pretty close to the same. ATM/CSF/vrsf 6.5/active autowerke /BMS/BM3 are all basically the same intercooler with one or two changes. Mishimoto is the largest, and the Evolution Raceworks is around the same size.

From the same damn thread in the n55 intercooler discussion:

Either way a standard 5" intercooler upgrade will work wonders for the n20. You'll need a custom tune + larger HPFP + larger turbo to max out the 5" in my experience in super hot Miami.

I have an ATM/CSF 6.5" intercooler (debate as if CSF copied ATM but whatever) on my n20.

From tuning and logging pulls from last week. Pulls are from around 4-5 PM or so Back to back so it's not cold evening air. Maybe 20-25 seconds between each pull due to a slight turn in the road. 86-96F, then 88-96F. It's pretty consistent.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6184...729b695b071b0c

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6184...0b430f4af98e3f

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by gameson

Just want to know. Does N20 have turbo lag if paired with bigger intercooler? For example, vrsf is offering 6.5” competition and race intercooler

Our vendor is offering 7” MAD FMIC for $350, great price, but with such size, i am worried about turbo lag

Car mods

All pipes are changed (down, charge, turbo)
Full exhaust system. Turbo back
Bm3 stage 2
XHP transmission tune

That’ll be it.

Thank you.

No turbo lag if you are running a stage 2 map

[FinnF30]

Don’t mean to thread jack, but I too have the same question. However, my setup seems to lie in a bit of a grey area I would say.

It’s a fully forged N20 + FBO + MHI big turbo. Plan on custom BM3 tune and what I hope will be a power level range of 325-375rwhp. Most would say don’t waste your time with the 5” intercooler, however, I plan on also adding a Snow performance stage 2 meth kit…which will bring those IATs temps down considerably as well, so in that case, would there even be a need for an intercooler larger than 5”? Trying to keep lag to a minimum.

[gameson]

Originally Posted by FinnF30

Don’t mean to thread jack, but I too have the same question. However, my setup seems to lie in a bit of a grey area I would say.

It’s a fully forged N20 + FBO + MHI big turbo. Plan on custom BM3 tune and what I hope will be a power level range of 325-375rwhp. Most would say don’t waste your time with the 5” intercooler, however, I plan on also adding a Snow performance stage 2 meth kit…which will bring those IATs temps down considerably as well, so in that case, would there even be a need for an intercooler larger than 5”? Trying to keep lag to a minimum.

arent you the one with blown N20 engine last time i read? how's the engine now?

[FinnF30]

Originally Posted by gameson

arent you the one with blown N20 engine last time i read? how's the engine now?

Lol yes that’s me. It’s since been totally rebuilt with CP Carrillo forged rods/pistons + FBO etc! Just looking for the rest of the pieces now to complete the build, got everything but the intercooler and tune lol. The car is running again though, feels MUCH stronger already.

[sqwinny]

Originally Posted by FinnF30

Lol yes that's me. It's since been totally rebuilt with CP Carrillo forged rods/pistons + FBO etc! Just looking for the rest of the pieces now to complete the build, got everything but the intercooler and tune lol. The car is running again though, feels MUCH stronger already.

You are more than welcome to check for turbo lag with my big 6.5" intercooler as you are local when I'm back in town next week.

There's a local guy running the same setup as you (fully forged + MHI + custom tune) but with mishimoto intercooler (pretty big 6" core) + meth + g plus oil cooler and no turbo lag for what it's worth.

https://www.mishimoto.com/bmw-f22-f3...oler-2012.html

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by FinnF30

Don't mean to thread jack, but I too have the same question. However, my setup seems to lie in a bit of a grey area I would say.

It's a fully forged N20 + FBO + MHI big turbo. Plan on custom BM3 tune and what I hope will be a power level range of 325-375rwhp. Most would say don't waste your time with the 5" intercooler, however, I plan on also adding a Snow performance stage 2 meth kit…which will bring those IATs temps down considerably as well, so in that case, would there even be a need for an intercooler larger than 5"? Trying to keep lag to a minimum.

Forged internals for 350whp?!? Would a used n55+tune not have been cheaper/easier?

[FinnF30]

Originally Posted by sqwinny

You are more than welcome to check for turbo lag with my big 6.5" intercooler as you are local when I'm back in town next week.

There's a local guy running the same setup as you (fully forged + MHI + custom tune) but with mishimoto intercooler (pretty big 6" core) + meth + g plus oil cooler and no turbo lag for what it's worth.

https://www.mishimoto.com/bmw-f22-f3...oler-2012.html

I’d definitely look forward to that! I know I’ve talked to you quite a number of times on here already before, but what’s your setup like again? I’m def leaning more toward the 6.5” but just wanted some other opinions.

[FinnF30]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Forged internals for 350whp?!? Would a used n55+tune not have been cheaper/easier?

It seems like every time I post my setup I get this question lol. Honestly, the forged internals were an after after after thought.

The engine suffered catastrophic failure after a timing chain issue, and I knew right away I wanted to rebuild….too much money already invested in the car to try and sell or start over, and so it was a no brainer to go forged for the amount of extra coin I was quoted over a regular rebuild. Did it more for peace of mind at the time anyway, and I figured a little extra horse would make it a much more enjoyable daily driver. I’ve got the Procharged Mustang for whenever I get a hardcore itch for speed lol.

Also, I think a 328i that can give an M3/4 a run for their money would be pretty interesting.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by FinnF30

It seems like every time I post my setup I get this question lol. Honestly, the forged internals were an after after after thought.

The engine suffered catastrophic failure after a timing chain issue, and I knew right away I wanted to rebuild….too much money already invested in the car to try and sell or start over, and so it was a no brainer to go forged for the amount of extra coin I was quoted over a regular rebuild. Did it more for peace of mind at the time anyway, and I figured a little extra horse would make it a much more enjoyable daily driver. I’ve got the Procharged Mustang for whenever I get a hardcore itch for speed lol.

Also, I think a 328i that can give an M3/4 a run for their money would be pretty interesting.

I would think so lol. That's a big investment yo only get numbers like that. And what M3? An E46? Not sure that those numbers would make an f80 sweat.

[FinnF30]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

I would think so lol. That's a big investment yo only get numbers like that. And what M3? An E46? Not sure that those numbers would make an f80 sweat.

I mean, again, for me it just wasn’t about the numbers. It was more for peace of mind considering how weak the factory rod bolts are on the N20 past anything over 300rwhp. I knew I wanted to go stage 2+ tune, so an extra $1800 to go forged wasn’t that big of a deal considering what the cost to rebuild already was. I guess investments are relative.

As for what M3…well, correct me if I’m wrong but an F80 only makes about what, 380whp stock? I know the power bands are a bit different but any 328i making ~375whp would indeed make it a bit sweaty lol, it would be an interesting race at the very least. Who doesn’t love being the underdog at the end of the day?

[sqwinny]

Originally Posted by FinnF30

I’d definitely look forward to that! I know I’ve talked to you quite a number of times on here already before, but what’s your setup like again? I’m def leaning more toward the 6.5” but just wanted some other opinions.

Everything is in the sig at the moment. It's around 22-23 psi for a stage 2 turbo and around 350/360 whp 6MT.

[FinnF30]

Originally Posted by sqwinny

Everything is in the sig at the moment. It's around 22-23 psi for a stage 2 turbo and around 350/360 whp 6MT.

Nice! Built motor I assume too? DM me, I have a couple questions for you about your HPFP and S63tu injectors!

[sqwinny]

Originally Posted by FinnF30

Nice! Built motor I assume too? DM me, I have a couple questions for you about your HPFP and S63tu injectors!

Shoot your questions away. Stock motor at the moment .

B58tu HPFP flows a bit more than the stock n20 one. Flow is increased overall and the car doesn't beg for more fuel when messing with e85 mixes. Max volume for the n20 HPFP : 0.878cc per rev, the b58tu HPFP on the n20 is 1.084cc per rev.

The eu5 s63tu injectors have the ability to flow around 30-40% more than the stock ones. They fit, connect, are plug and play with calibration from itsta+ (standard fuel injector install + programming) , but an upgraded HPFP is required first, then install + custom tune needs to be mapped for them. We found out the hard way (I wanted to keep the stock HPFP and get the custom tune stable and install the B58Tu, but found out for sure the stock HPFP can't handle just about any real "load" with the higher flowing injectors) that the larger injectors don't work with the stock HPFP. I have data logs to show it if you want to see the stock HPFP crashing hard at anything above 15-17 psi.

N20 injectors are estimated to be 899cc at 3600 rpm and the s63tu injectors are 1399cc at the same rpm + rail pressure.

Harry has a link to this document on his website and is public facing, click and explore :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...WgfuHHGHA/edit

Harry aka Navardi Tuned knows a lot about this. It would be extremely valuable for you to discuss things with him for more technicalities.

https://instagram.com/navardituned?utm_medium=copy_link

https://navardituned.com/

[dís_f30]

6.5" works the best with no lag. If you upgrade the internals (camshaft, rods, ported polished heads, etc.) then you could go bigger.